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Author Topic: Why the Big Difference in LCD Brightness Settings?  (Read 16075 times)
digitaldog
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« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2008, 08:13:01 AM »
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Its all really simple. Base display luminance on print viewing and ambient light around the display and workstation. You can't have this too low! The lower, the better (short of bumping into furniture). Any ambient light aside from the display will affect the perceived contrast ratio of the display (it can only be so black, any ambient light will affect this).

If the display is set as low as you can set it and the prints are still too light, lower the lighting on the prints (here's where using something like Solux isn't easy as you must move the lights or use NDs).

The LOWER the display luminance, the longer that display will be able to reach its desired (lower) luminance. That's good.

Is 115 too low for some LCD's? Yes, it is quite possible that a new, out of the box LCD will have difficulty hitting that value strictly by adjusting the hardware. That may be true for 120 or any value up to a point.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2008, 12:17:52 PM »
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Its all really simple. Base display luminance on print viewing and ambient light around the display and workstation. You can't have this too low! The lower, the better (short of bumping into furniture). Any ambient light aside from the display will affect the perceived contrast ratio of the display (it can only be so black, any ambient light will affect this).

If the display is set as low as you can set it and the prints are still too light, lower the lighting on the prints (here's where using something like Solux isn't easy as you must move the lights or use NDs).

The LOWER the display luminance, the longer that display will be able to reach its desired (lower) luminance. That's good.

Is 115 too low for some LCD's? Yes, it is quite possible that a new, out of the box LCD will have difficulty hitting that value strictly by adjusting the hardware. That may be true for 120 or any value up to a point.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ok, this makes a lot more sense.  Go low if you can, since there are a lot of benefits--less eye strain, better ability to judge contrast, longer display life--but if your working conditions or monitor require it, don't be "afraid" to ramp it past 120 as needed.
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Jack Varney
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« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2008, 02:15:01 PM »
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If the display is set as low as you can set it and the prints are still too light, lower the lighting on the prints (here's where using something like Solux isn't easy as you must move the lights or use NDs).

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What about when the display is set as low as possible and the prints come out too dark (as viewed under window light on a bright sunny day)?  I have tried 140cd down to 70cd on a Viewsonic VX910 calibrated via EyeOne Match 3. There is very little visible change from 70 to 140.
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Jack Varney
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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2008, 10:48:52 PM »
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Hi all,


isn't there some ISO standard for viewing conditions, to which should be followed to keep a standard.

there should be a given room light temp (Kelvin) eg 5000k and the monitors should have a given X k brightness.

Why buy viewing stations, to view our prints? there has to be a set of knowns as there is with viewing stations. room light color and intensity should be set to a standard and your monitor too.....just like when we make print profiles!!!

or is it just me thats loosing it with all the confusion....I am just surprised that no one here has refered to any ISO standards, or do you all have your personal set of standards to support own agenda's?

Guys with all respect....we have established printing profile standards, why not computer room and monitor standards?

..I better take on my fireproof suit, b4 the flames starts hitting me.... thanks for listening

Henrik

PS: Room is just under 5000k and i use 120 for my screen.
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tived
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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2008, 11:02:22 PM »
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You may want to check out

ISO 3664 and ISO 12646, they are CH$96 each

Henrik
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dlashier
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« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2008, 01:14:50 AM »
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If the display is set as low as you can set it and the prints are still too light, lower the lighting on the prints.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andrew, I'm sure you know this but I think you meant "... and the prints are still too dark". Get another cup of coffee

- DL
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digitaldog
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« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2008, 10:00:09 AM »
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Hi all,
isn't there some ISO standard for viewing conditions, to which should be followed to keep a standard.


Yes. Its pretty old, needs updating for modern displays and needs to address the types of viewing conditions that are being used today besides just Fluorescent light booths.
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Andrew Rodney
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jashley
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« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2008, 09:09:36 AM »
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Andrew, I'm sure you know this but I think you meant "... and the prints are still too dark". Get another cup of coffee

- DL
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180168\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I thought the same thing when I first read it but I think this is actually "right".  AR I believe you're saying if you want to go as low as possible with your monitor, and it only goes to, say, 115, then if your prints are lighter than your monitor the only choice is to lower the lighting on the prints.  Yes?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2008, 09:22:39 AM »
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I thought the same thing when I first read it but I think this is actually "right".  AR I believe you're saying if you want to go as low as possible with your monitor, and it only goes to, say, 115, then if your prints are lighter than your monitor the only choice is to lower the lighting on the prints.  Yes?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180410\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yup.
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Andrew Rodney
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dlashier
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« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2008, 03:42:04 PM »
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In general the relationship between monitor and print is inverse. A brighter monitor leads you to tone down the image which results in a darker print while a darker monitor leads you to "brighten" the image which results in a lighter print.

Where there can be some variance I suppose is the behaviour of the midtones on the monitor and/or printer since this is what we in general perceive as "dark" or "light".

- DL
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AlanG
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« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2008, 11:00:46 PM »
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There is an aspect of our vision called color and brightness constancy that  interferes with our ability to objectively determine shades and colors.  (For instance our vison adjusts to daylight, tungsten and fluorescent.)

So if you work in a darkened room without standard tone and neutral color references to balance your field of view, your only reference will be your monitor and print.  While they may match each other, they could be pretty far off in color or brightness and you may not notice it.  

I think there is another consideration.  It is one thing to match the print to the monitor, it is another thing to make a print that will look right in the intended environment.

So if you judge a print under a dim light in a dark room and it also matches a dark monitor, what happens when that print is displayed in a brighter room?  Don't you think it might look too light?
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Alan Goldstein
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digitaldog
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« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2008, 09:28:45 AM »
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I think there is another consideration.  It is one thing to match the print to the monitor, it is another thing to make a print that will look right in the intended environment.

So if you judge a print under a dim light in a dark room and it also matches a dark monitor, what happens when that print is displayed in a brighter room?  Don't you think it might look too light?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190719\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In the context of looking at the display and hoping what you see there will be what you get on the print, seems you have to place them next to each other and look at em. What happens when you move the print? Will sure, I suspect it will appear differently depending on if you're viewing it in an Elevator or someone's living room painted pink with tungsten lights. And we can't view that print and the display and if we could, who knows if they would match. Point is, we have on situation we can control (including the editing process of the document) and one we can't (fully). Reality sucks <g>
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Andrew Rodney
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AlanG
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« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2008, 09:58:32 AM »
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In the context of looking at the display and hoping what you see there will be what you get on the print, seems you have to place them next to each other and look at em. ...[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190760\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sure, there is no other way.  And I don't disagree with you on this.

But it is my feeling that the room where you compare the print to the image on the monitor should also be close to "normal" light levels so that your vision will have other references to standardize on.   Afterall, the idea isn't just to make a print that exactly matches the monitor (if this is even possible) but one that looks good under normal viewing conditions. However you define normal.

In a darkened room, you will adapt and accept changes on a monitor that would not seem correct had you kept your vision "calibrated" by seeing things in the surrounding area.  Assuming the surrounding area is relatively neutral looking.

I still can remember a demonstration of this effect when I was in school. We were given a travelog slide show in a darkened theater.  At the end the professors compared the first image to the last.  One was radically blue and the other was very warm.  They had gradually changed color filters over each image as it was projected from very cool to very warm and nobody detected this as it was going on.  The idea was to imprint on us how easily our vision accomodates color shifts when there is nothing to compare to.
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Alan Goldstein
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digitaldog
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« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2008, 10:06:20 AM »
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But it is my feeling that the room where you compare the print to the image on the monitor should also be close to "normal" light levels so that your vision will have other references to standardize on.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190764\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But what is "normal?" and how could this affect the process that is most critical, editing the image?

The higher the luminance by the display, the more it affects the perceived contrast ratio as any ambient light hitting the display affects its black. In such a case, lower is better, to the point that you can't go too low until you rip open your leg by bumping into a table!

We have to accept that we may not have any idea where the print will reside. And we have to realize that all ICC profiles assume a viewing condition of D50 (unless we have a high end package like ProfileMaker Pro, go out and actually measure the illuminant and build that into the profile).

None of this is prefect. But as Mr. Schewe would say, it beats pissing in the wind. At least setup an environment whereby you can view a print and the display such that you have a close match.

What do you do when you have to print a 30x40 but your light booth can only view 11x17? Well if you know that the print to display matching is good, you can at least print a smaller BAT image and if you're really good, do minor compensation for the document going to a larger size. This is all pretty controllable. Once you ask about where that 30x40 print will reside, and you take the display out of the equation, all bets are off. At least we can produce an environment where print and display are close such we get no surprises here.
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Andrew Rodney
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Nill Toulme
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« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2008, 10:39:46 AM »
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Just a note to observe that small differences can matter.  I work in a fairly dim room and have had my NEC 2090uxi calibrated to 95 cd/m˛.  I still thought my Epson 4800 prints were coming out a little dull, so I recently recalibrated to 90 cd/m˛, and I'm much happier with the results.

Nill
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AlanG
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« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2008, 10:41:00 AM »
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...The higher the luminance by the display, the more it affects the perceived contrast ratio as any ambient light hitting the display affects its black. In such a case, lower is better, to the point that you can't go too low until you rip open your leg by bumping into a table!

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190767\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

All I'm trying to say is that working in a dark environment causes other concerns that may affect one's perception and ability to judge colors.  But if it works for you, that is fine with me.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2008, 03:06:26 PM by AlanG » Logged

Alan Goldstein
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