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Author Topic: sigma dp1  (Read 6857 times)
woof75
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« on: March 03, 2008, 04:01:40 PM »
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Anyone used it yet? Initial indications suggest it's the camera I've been waiting for, a point and shoot that is actually usable. It has been a huge hole in the digital market, somthing that competes with my yashica T4.
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jerryrock
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« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2008, 06:20:57 PM »
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28mm (equivalent) F4 lens is not what I would consider usable.  At $800 street price, this camera is definitely not the ultimate point & shoot.
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Gerald J Skrocki
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oldcsar
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« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2008, 08:55:54 PM »
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I would have to mostly agree with Jerryrock. Although I love the concept of the DP1 with its big sensor, it appears to me that the bigger sensor requires bigger optics, and they had to make compromises (f/4, fixed focal length) in order to make it more 'pocketable.' If they were less worried about its pocketability, I'm sure the optics would be a priority for improvement.  Sure, you can use the optional adapters for a little more telephoto, but due to the decisions about the optics there are clearly limitations on where this camera would be useful. The CCDs in pocket cameras are reaching their limitations with current architecture, but Image stabilization helps reduce the need for higher ISOs with static and slower subjects. There is some legitimacy to go for smaller sensors in order to get the most out of limited space... but to get quality up to where I believe it should be in small sensor cameras, technical designers really need to move onto CMOS designs with panchromatic filters.

The bottom line is that I find the fixed focal, slow wide angle lens to be somewhat of a deal breaker, because I would be limited to the subjects I can walk right up to in decent light. Having to resort to high ISO on a Foveon sensor is not desireable, and if one had to crop as a result of the focal length, the aliasing of fine detail in the Foveon image would be too pronounced in the final print. I'll pass on the DP1, but I look forward to the DP2... hopefully it has image stabilization.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 08:58:16 PM by oldcsar » Logged

Misirlou
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2008, 12:14:35 AM »
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Hmm. I bet most of my shots are done at close to 28mm equivalent. Sounds great to me. If I needed to carry a very small camera from which I'd want to print large, I'd probably be outdoors (hiking or something), where f/4 wouldn't be a problem either.

I'm also not too perturbed by the alias artifacts. I'll take a look at actual shots when the camera ships. It might suit me nicely. Seems kind of like a digital incarnation of my wife's old Contax T2. More or less similar price too.
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Thomas Krüger
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2008, 12:39:00 AM »
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At least the DP-1 is a step into the right direction. I'd like to have something like a digital Contax G2, something between the price tag of a Canon G9 and a Leica M8.
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geesbert
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2008, 03:50:20 AM »
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i'd say f4 is rather to help a slightly inaccurate AF with a bit of DOF real estate.

If you see how small the 2,8/35mm lens of the early 80's Olympus xa is (and that had to cover full frame) and how good it is, you see that you don't really need big glass to make a good lens. manual focus though...
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 03:51:59 AM by geesbert » Logged

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woof75
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2008, 06:21:49 AM »
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i'd say f4 is rather to help a slightly inaccurate AF with a bit of DOF real estate.

If you see how small the 2,8/35mm lens of the early 80's Olympus xa is (and that had to cover full frame) and how good it is, you see that you don't really need big glass to make a good lens. manual focus though...
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thats interesting, how often do you guys shoot at F2.8 though? I virtually never do. Looking at samples on the internet image quality is far superior to any other compact out there, as you'd expect with a far bigger sensor. I'm quite looking forward to it. I saw an iso 800 sample which was a million times better than any other point and shoot I've ever seen, have a look for yourselves:
[a href=\"http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2010/2306260662_2252923b73_o.jpg]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2010/230626...252923b73_o.jpg[/url]
« Last Edit: March 04, 2008, 08:10:35 AM by woof75 » Logged
James Godman
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2008, 09:14:52 AM »
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Thats interesting, how often do you guys shoot at F2.8 though?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179008\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
When I had my Contax T2, most of the time it was set to 2.8.  This camera might be very cool, but I wont buy one because of the wideness of the lens.  I'd like a 35 or 40mm equiv.
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jjj
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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2008, 08:40:27 PM »
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When I had my Contax T2, most of the time it was set to 2.8.  This camera might be very cool, but I wont buy one because of the wideness of the lens.  I'd like a 35 or 40mm equiv.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179038\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm a wide aperture shooter too. And thats with a DSLRs.
As for compacts, I rarely use my S70 at anything other than the 28mm setting.


I had a play with a DP1 the other day. Not as nice handling as a GRD II, but as I couldn't test the image quality [firmware still being tweaked] so I'll await final judgement. Image on LCD was very smeary when you moved he camera, like you used to see on videos some years back [firmware?] and it was just that little bit too big for my liking. I'm still after an XA or IXUS sized camera with FF and a f2.8 28mm!
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geesbert
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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2008, 03:38:37 AM »
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i want a aps-chip camera with a stellar f2.0/40mm(in 35mm terms) lens, a decent viefinder and manual control with dedicated wheels, sized like a canon g9; and i want an anti-gravity machine.
i guess i will get the anti-gravity machine first.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2008, 03:39:35 AM by geesbert » Logged

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geesbert
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« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2008, 05:55:03 AM »
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now look at that:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0803/08030501olympuse420.asp
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woof75
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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2008, 10:53:43 AM »
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now look at that:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0803/08030501olympuse420.asp
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179255\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If only that little pancake lens was a 35mm instead of 50mm (effective).
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jerryrock
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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2008, 12:58:57 PM »
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If only that little pancake lens was a 35mm instead of 50mm (effective).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179326\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It is actually a SLR (4/3 system lens mount) so the lenses are interchangeable.
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Gerald J Skrocki
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geesbert
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2008, 02:41:28 PM »
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of course it's an slr, but somehow there are no fast primes available in fourthirds. at least now they have a pancake lens, something i am missing with canon for years.

i now use a voigtländer 40mm nokton pancake in nikon mount with an adapter on my 5d, a sweet and nearly pocketable solution. manual focus is rather easy with a fast lens, something i tend to forget after a few years of AF.
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mzsupa5
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2008, 10:22:00 AM »
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If only that little pancake lens was a 35mm instead of 50mm (effective).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179326\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Notice that the Olympus 28mm equiv. kit lens is f3.5....

When I'm using a 28 I usually want deep focus so f4 is no problem. Not for me though, I'm waiting to see if Canon increases its chip size with a G10. As Canon radically changed its G lens with the advent of the G7/9 I wonder if there is enough image circle to accommodate a bigger sensor? Lack of corner falloff and good corner sharpness on my G9 suggests yes.

Tony
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 06:33:05 PM by mzsupa5 » Logged
Er1kksen
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2008, 06:18:55 PM »
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If you see how small the 2,8/35mm lens of the early 80's Olympus xa is (and that had to cover full frame) and how good it is, you see that you don't really need big glass to make a good lens. manual focus though...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178997\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thing is, that was designed to image on a flat sheet of film. Microlenses can make up for off-angle light to some degree with bayer sensors, but foveon's 3-layer approach requires even greater telecentricity. Hmm. Maybe if some manufacturer came up with a curved image sensor, we really could use the XA's lens...

Oops, running my ridiculous mouth again.

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of course it's an slr, but somehow there are no fast primes available in fourthirds. at least now they have a pancake lens, something i am missing with canon for years.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179382\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

None? Absolutely no fast primes for fourthirds? Including the sigma 30mm 1.4 and 24mm 1.8 macro, and of course the wonderful Leica 25mm 1.4?

Olympus is still working on fleshing out the system, and at the moment the areas they're most concerned with are fast zooms and consumer lenses which have a larger market than fast primes (and they're doing quite well on that front). BUT... Olympus isn't the only player in the fourthirds system. Don't forget that.

And then you mentioned legacy lenses with adapters... Pretty much the only lenses you can't mount to 4/3 are canon EOS lenses (Not sure about canon's old lenses). Either Konica or Minolta (before the merge) made an incredibly sharp, fairly fast 40mm pancake that you can mount straight to 4/3 with no adapter by clipping a pin on the lens' bayonet mount. If you're willing to deal with manual focus, there are a small group who shoot with pentax's new pancakes mounted to E-410s with adaptor. There really are a lot of options.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 06:23:25 PM by Er1kksen » Logged
Moynihan
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« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2008, 06:08:22 AM »
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...something that competes with my yashica T4.

Yes, nice little camera the T4.

I am very interested in the DP-1. I would prefer a 50mm (35mm eqv), and will wait to see what the IQ of the announced Olympus 25mm is like, (ie. e-420 & 25mm "pancake").

But the DP-1 sample images look very nice. Its size is attractive. The unfortunately "optional" viewfinder would be a necessity for me. The 28mm question is a matter of personal style. I use that focal length alot. For "street shooters", they should remember that Gary Winograd used 28mm usually.
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