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Author Topic: New Phase One camera body  (Read 17973 times)
James R Russell
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« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2008, 09:49:40 AM »
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Why not simply wait for the 19th of March and the start of the PIE exhibition in Tokyo, JP?
I guess that is not that long to know and avoids a round of speculations.

Thierry
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I think people get excited about the possiblites of a new medium format camera and even though at this point everyone speculates, I am sure the manufacturer's follow the different forums to get some idea of what people expect, so unless these threads turn into some kind of brand war bias, or sales presentation,  I think the speculation is good and we all know that competition is healthy.

Given this, if Mamiya is listening I suggest they use this opportunity of introducing the 645 camera to make some adjustments and changes in the RZ, like a higher powered magnifier to make focusing and viewing of the RZ frame easier and if they could engineer the blades that would crop to a 645 (1.1 or 1.3 format) I'm sure this would bring a lot of old lenses off of the shelves.

So many professionals have some type of RZ equipment and since the 645 back goes straight to the RZII digital body it could be very benificial to ex-mamiya users.


JR
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redbutt
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« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2008, 09:58:01 AM »
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There is a thread on the Oficcial PhaseOne forum about this:

http://forum.phaseone.com/viewtopic.php?t=4616

The only thing that has been confirmed is:

"As announced the camera will have Mamiya 645AFD interface so any digital back with this interface (including all competitors system) can be used on the new Phase One camera and this includes Mamiya film holders."

The rep did promise all specs will be released after the show at the end of this month.
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jonstewart
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« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2008, 10:23:26 AM »
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Some live to complain. How about giving them a chance, Jon? No point going on like an old scold unless you are an old scold.
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I rarely complain... I've been waiting a long time for the AFD2 to be replaced with something that has autofocus and higher sync speeds.
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Jon Stewart

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jonstewart
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« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2008, 10:26:06 AM »
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Seems a little negative when it's regarding the camera company that has a rock solid product on the market (AFD 2) and has released a new lens to add to an already stellar line up and Phase one who have the most reliable backs around all with software that actually works, now.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179765\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, you're quite right, software that actually works (very slowly) and assuming you don't want to work tethered. How long has that been in the pipeline?
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Jon Stewart

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TMARK
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« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2008, 11:26:27 AM »
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jonstewart
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« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2008, 12:40:58 PM »
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Are you saying that C1 4 or C1 3.7 are slow?  The only way these apps are slow is if you are smoking meth or doing rails in the studio.  I find them both very fast. 

The fact that C1 4 Pro is not out is annoying.  I want my moire tools and tethering in 4.
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MacPro twin Zeon Duocore 3.0GHz. CO4 slow. I find (and I know it's not a direct comparison, I know), that Aperture or Lightroom are faster. CO4 seems to tak an age to load pics. Just annoying.

Cheers
J
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« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2008, 01:17:37 PM »
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woof75
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« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2008, 02:21:09 PM »
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Yes, you're quite right, software that actually works (very slowly) and assuming you don't want to work tethered. How long has that been in the pipeline?
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Er John, you do realise that you can work tethered with capture one (at least with most cameras) and that the AFD 2 has got AF, thats what the AF part of the name is about.
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jonstewart
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« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2008, 02:28:47 PM »
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Er John, you do realise that you can work tethered with capture one (at least with most cameras) and that the AFD 2 has got AF, thats what the AF part of the name is about.
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Yes, you can work tethered with 378, not 4.

As regards the AF issue, I think you missed my wry humour. Yes, the AFD2 has autofocus, if only it would work better. (I tried a Leaf AFi last week, and there's a working autofocus!)


Oh, and incidentally, I'll be absolutely delighted if Phase / Mamiya can bring out a great camera in a few weeks, and perhaps be early in the queue to get one.

Cheers
Jon
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 02:30:59 PM by jonstewart » Logged

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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #29 on: March 07, 2008, 02:49:09 PM »
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It was my first impression, but after I run more informal tests I found out it was not the case. It may be system related.


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Someone else on this board had an issue with C1 4 being slow.  (Leonardo?) There was definately something amiss that made C1 4 run slowly.  I haven't timed it, but it seems that P30+ raw to 8bit Tiff takes about 3 seconds.  Maybe 4, but its not enough time to even think it could be slow.  This is on a Mac Pro Quad 2.66 with 7 gigs of RAM, 5400 RPM drives.
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woof75
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« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2008, 02:53:45 PM »
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Yes, you can work tethered with 378, not 4.

As regards the AF issue, I think you missed my wry humour. Yes, the AFD2 has autofocus, if only it would work better. (I tried a Leaf AFi last week, and there's a working autofocus!)
Oh, and incidentally, I'll be absolutely delighted if Phase / Mamiya can bring out a great camera in a few weeks, and perhaps be early in the queue to get one.

Cheers
Jon
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I didn't realise the 4 doesn't work tethered, 3.7.8 seems great though, saying that, I only use it to tether, I use Lightroom to develop files which is in my not humble position (why lie) far superior. With regards to the AF, I actually prefer the Mamiya's AF to the canon 1ds mark 2's, it's a little slow but seems to hunt less and it works incredibly well in really low light.
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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2008, 03:37:23 PM »
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I just made a test and C1 4.14 was about 20 seconds (for a 63.7MB P 25 file) and
C1 DB 3.7.8 was about 25 seconds. C1 4 seamed a bit faster.

... then again, Potoshop CS3 did it in about 8 seconds, so there is space for C14 PRO to improve, after all this is only the "light" version of C14. Other programs have cached up with Phase One, but I would not say that they have a software problem. I feel at home with and generally process my work on the field with an old laptop. The tethered connection is extremely reliable and "can do" attitude, I use custom made ICC and the ones that came with Phase like "Easy gray" that works particularly well with installation shots when the white gallery walls have to look white. The profile was made for table top photographers that use a white seamless background.

The only thing missing for my type of work is lens correction and perspective control tools. (something like: edit>transform>skew )

On the down side is the idea that raw conversion instructions on C1 3 are nos compatible with C1 4 which means that you would have to do all the editing work when re-processing images.

If Phase One is consistent the new camera should be:

* Weather resistant and robust (something that the Hy6 and Leaf backs are not)
  After all Phase backs can be completely frozen w/out stopping to work.
* Minimalistic interface to make things robust and simple to use. Mamiya has similar tendency.
* Low energy requirements. No fans, no large displays.
* Good, fast, reliable software (something that Mamiya has not)

If you package that with a good support and upgrade policy and competitive pricing they may interest a few photographers.

If I was them I would produce a Phase One ZD model, but that concept -- that failed not because it was a bad idea but because of what Phase One knows how to do well: firmware and the rest -- may be irreparably jinxed like Apple's Newton.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 03:39:38 PM by Leonardo Barreto » Logged

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John_Black
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« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2008, 05:11:32 PM »
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C1 V4.01 on Mac 3.0 Quad with 8 GB RAM; one P25 RAW to 16-bit TIFF takes 3 or 4 seconds.  It goes much quicker than 3.7.7 which was around 20 seconds.  I'm running 10.4.11.
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jonstewart
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« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2008, 05:12:55 PM »
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Leonardo,
Thanks for putting some figures on that. I agree with your observations about the new camera.

How have you found profiling in Lightroom?

(it may sound trivial, but I like lightroom overall, but particularly the spot healing function...there's always one piece of dust I missed when doing a batch of shots! Mind you, the big air filter / purifier improved the situation a lot)

Cheers
Jon
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Jon Stewart

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« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2008, 05:20:34 PM »
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C1 V4.01 on Mac 3.0 Quad with 8 GB RAM; one P25 RAW to 16-bit TIFF takes 3 or 4 seconds.  It goes much quicker than 3.7.7 which was around 20 seconds.  I'm running 10.4.11.
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I have an admission though, never crossed my mind initially. I'm running Vista on mine! Perhaps CO4 ain't as well optimised in Windows. Also, must get more memory; I've only got 2 in at the moment.

(...and when you've stopped laughing   , and before you ask, I tried MacOSX for 4 months, and didn't like it (as much as windows); tried Leopard... same thing. Now, I used X windows on Unix, long before any of the current OS's (about 15 years ago) so please don't accuse me of being an irrational Windows fanboy. I think both are great, just that OSX seems somehow, ...clunky, for want of a better word. Just my opinion.

Anyway, sorry, I'm not trying to divert the thread, so perhaps I should have deleted the last paragraph   )

Thanks for all the other considered opinions.
J
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 05:21:14 PM by jonstewart » Logged

Jon Stewart

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eronald
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« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2008, 05:21:05 PM »
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As regards the AF issue, I think you missed my wry humour. Yes, the AFD2 has autofocus, if only it would work better. (I tried a Leaf AFi last week, and there's a working autofocus!)

Cheers
Jon
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Maybe your camera is broken ? I have tested my Mamiya against a Canon 1Ds3 recently, under fairly real fashion conditions modeling lights for focus), and a still life, the Mamiya performed at least as well as the Canon. In fact the reason why I went for Mamiya is that in all the tests I did the focus was accurate. Not the fastest but every time at exactly the right spot.

Edmund
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jonstewart
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« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2008, 05:22:53 PM »
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Maybe your camera is broken ? I have tested my Mamiya against a Canon 1Ds3 recently, under fairly real fashion conditions, and a still life, the Mamiya performed at least as well as the Canon. In fact the reason why I went for Mamiya is that in all the tests I did the focus was accurate. Not the fastest but every time at exactly the right spot.

Edmund
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I actually had mine in for service for a couple of reasons, the AF being one of them. Turned out it was 'fine' ..mmm.

To be perfectly honest, my only comparison is with a 5D and L glass, so perhaps that's unfair.

Thanks
J
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Jon Stewart

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« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2008, 12:17:17 AM »
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Jon - for the auto focus - do you have the AFDII set to "spot" or to "wide".  Wide employees 3 AF sensors and focuses on whatever in that zone.  The spot focus is just center AF point - that'll tighten up focus considerably.  As Edmund said, the AFDII focus is quite accurate.  Slow at times, but it gets there.
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jonstewart
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« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2008, 01:46:50 AM »
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Jon - for the auto focus - do you have the AFDII set to "spot" or to "wide".  Wide employees 3 AF sensors and focuses on whatever in that zone.  The spot focus is just center AF point - that'll tighten up focus considerably.  As Edmund said, the AFDII focus is quite accurate.  Slow at times, but it gets there.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179954\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree completely about the accuracy - didn't make it clear in previous posts, and it's the time it takes hunting that causes me a problem. Certainly it's far faster in area focus rather than spot, and therefore that's what I use.

In a way I'm glad to see the strength of feeling for the AFD2 here, and especially since it's from people who produce excellent work, from other examples I've seen of it.

I really appreciate all the help you guys (and girls??) have given me, not just when I posed this issue, but on everything else as well. It's such a nice forum to be part of, compared with many others I have seen.

Thanks
J
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Leonardo Barreto
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« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2008, 04:30:28 PM »
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You are welcome. I think that we have a tendency to defend the gear we use as if it had become "our motherland", but there is always somthing --or a lot-- to envy from the system next doors. In my case I may seam to be often criticizing Thierry's Hy6 and defending Phase-miya, but I saw a video of a rotating back on a Hy6 and I have to admit that it is an attractive feature (I used to love that on my RZII) --don't know if I it justify the 66 format, but don't want to re-litigate that--. And the other detail of having the winder motor on the film magazine. That is very smart and a way to move in to the digital future.

I could go further and criticize my "team": Phase One needs to come with a good C1 4 Pro "yesterday". Mamiya has to come up with gourmet optics like a 80mm f/1.4 or a 120mm f1.4 for photographers that need a bit more than average bouquet  and flavor in their images.

Love and let love friends  


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I agree completely about the accuracy - didn't make it clear in previous posts, and it's the time it takes hunting that causes me a problem. Certainly it's far faster in area focus rather than spot, and therefore that's what I use.

In a way I'm glad to see the strength of feeling for the AFD2 here, and especially since it's from people who produce excellent work, from other examples I've seen of it.

I really appreciate all the help you guys (and girls??) have given me, not just when I posed this issue, but on everything else as well. It's such a nice forum to be part of, compared with many others I have seen.

Thanks
J
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