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Author Topic: London's Met Police In Idiotic Ad Poster Shocker  (Read 19252 times)
NBP
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« on: March 06, 2008, 07:11:04 AM »
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Well, there's another nail in the coffin of photographic freedom in the UK and essentially, a green light for a surge in harassment towards those of us out and about with camera's.

[attachment=5461:attachment]

Thank's for that, London Metropolitan Police.
 

(athough this alternative is available, if you feel like doing a bit of ad busting   )

[attachment=5460:attachment]
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 07:14:01 AM by NBP » Logged
Graeme Nattress
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2008, 07:16:45 AM »
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Or just "report" anyone you see taking any photo anywhere and soon the police will give up under the massive amount of paperwork you're just made for them.

Here in Ottawa there were posters on bus stops telling us, if I remember rightly, something very vague, like "report anything strange". It's blinkin ludicrous.

Graeme
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NBP
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2008, 07:30:12 AM »
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"report anything strange". It's blinkin ludicrous.

Graeme
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179552\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Isn't it.

So police muppets, could you kindly supply us with a list of what's 'normal' then?
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2008, 08:11:01 AM »
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I can imagine every Nikon user reporting every Canon user, and vise vera. The silly season is surely in full swing.
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Diapositivo
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2008, 08:45:25 AM »
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That is exactly the same kind of stupidity that causes normal people to be shot in the tube by paranoid and mentally disturbed policemen.

So now they want to spread paranoia well beyond their circle and soon there will be witches flying around (and coupling with the devil disguised as a black cat) and plague spreaders everywhere. Somebody will propose a law to send suspected people to the stake unless proved not guilty.

They will call it "the patriotic stake act".

I cannot believe how stupid people can be in the XXI century. And the worse is, this kind of mentality, if accepted, will warrant an enormous compression of the civilization conquests of these last two centuries and a half, for "security reasons".

Disgusting.

Cheers
Fabrizio
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TMcCulley
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2008, 10:13:07 AM »
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Quote
[attachment=5461:attachment]

Thank's for that, London Metropolitan Police.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179551\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is exactly the sort of thing that large buearcratic organizations need to do so it appears that they are doing something.  Remember the soldiers at US airports after 9/11?  This did not increase security but looked like it increased security.  For some reason large organizations prefer the illusion of something instead of actually doing something.  I guess because it is easier.

Tom
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John S C
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2008, 11:28:37 AM »
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There are a number of parodies of this poster doing the rounds. The latest concerns HDR and is similar to the flicker one

http://www.flickr.com/photos/airchinapilot/2312975136/

Lets not get too paranoid
 
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Misirlou
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2008, 12:10:39 PM »
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Remember the soldiers at US airports after 9/11?  This did not increase security but looked like it increased security. Tom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Tom,

How do you know they didn't "increase security?" Maybe other 9/11-style hijackers were deterred by them. I think it's presumptuous of you to insist they didn't. If you'd been to Germany in the 90's, you would have seen more military security in places like Frankfurt airport than we had in US airports even around 9/11. Did they prevent any attacks? Hard to know. I'd say the soldiers did at least as much to prevent attacks as the ticket agents asking us if we packed our own bags.

But your larger point is well taken. Anyone with common sense would report something they believed to be suspicious, whether or not there was some poster telling them to do so. It seems pretty silly to suggest that anyone taking pictures might be casing an attack site. What should not arouse suspicion? A person taking pictures of friends perhaps? Although it's pretty common for clandetsine agents to pose as tourists, so as not to arouse suspicions while taking photos of government buildings and so forth. The poster is useless, and a waste of priting resources.

Wes
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 12:11:07 PM by Misirlou » Logged
NBP
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2008, 12:11:05 PM »
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Lets not get too paranoid
 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179603\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Oooh, the Metropolitan police won't like that, chappers.

They want you to live in fear & suspicion goddamnit!!
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 12:20:57 PM by NBP » Logged
NBP
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2008, 12:14:25 PM »
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Anyone with common sense would report something they believed to be suspicious
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179613\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The problem is that unfortunately, a large percentage of the public don't really do common sense very well.
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Misirlou
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2008, 02:54:20 PM »
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The problem is that unfortunately, a large percentage of the public don't really do common sense very well.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179617\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Someone once said that the problem with common sense is that it isn't very common.

I think we can all agree that the poster is unlikely to promote its growth either.
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mahleu
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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2008, 02:41:22 AM »
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Whilst this poster could be grounds for worrying, I was in London in early January and everyone and their dog had a camera of some sort. The City is full of tourists and locals taking pictures of everything all the time. I never even got a funny look shooting candids with an slr, people are used to it.

I can't imagine that many people will bother nor have the time to report people taking photographs.
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Rob C
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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2008, 02:02:29 PM »
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Nothing new under the sun.

When I still lived in Scotland I had a client called the Clydesdale Bank, for whom I did quite a lot of ads via their ad agency. One fine day I was across the road from one of the branches trying to figure out how best to shoot something for them. Of course, a harrassed person came rushing over to ask me what I was about.

The point is, this happened well before 1981 when I left the country.

And yes, I can well understand the reasons for their worry. Crime has always been with us and where there´s money there will be opportunity for someone else to try and relieve them of the stress of having it.

This same blind expression of security hatred was being driven round and round LuLa in relationship to Heathrow Airport not a hundred years ago. Truth to tell, I never know for sure if these people who wet their knickers about it are simply trying to articulate some kind of machismo, some defiance of death, or just happen to be challenged in the imagination department. I am happy to go along with security needs, if only because they are at least an attempt to do something positive for MY safety, even whilst I know that a suicide yoyo is not going to be deterred from pressing the contacts together if challenged. Somehow, it seems more comforting to be blown to bits in an airport than up in the air. Funny, that.

Ciao - Rob C
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NBP
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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2008, 03:10:54 PM »
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I am happy to go along with security needs, if only because they are at least an attempt to do something positive for MY safety
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179853\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


 
Sorry, but that's got to one of the most naive sentences I've read in quite a while.
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Misirlou
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« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2008, 05:32:37 PM »
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About 9 months after 9/11, I was on a work-related trip to northern California. One afternoon, I came upon an interesting roller coaster. It was almost sunset and the park had already closed, so I couldn't get in to shoot it up close. I eventually found a nice spot to shoot it from an empty parking lot, and set up one of my Hasselblads.

Just as I tripped the shutter, a security guard in a mini pickup drove up and started interogating me. Somehow, I don't see any of Osama Bin Laden's minions seizing upon a nefarious plan to blow up a roller coaster, much less surveiling it with a vintage Hasselblad, but I nevertheless poltitely entertained his questions. He proceeded to lecture me about how there was no way he was going to let me take a picture of that thing "given the current siuation."

Eventually I grew weary of the exchange, and pulled out my identification that proved I was chief of homeland security training for a large national intelligence agency. He told me that he could probably let me go, but that I had better not try to take any more pictures of his precious roller coaster.

I often used that incident later in my courses, as an example of poor security thinking.
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DiaAzul
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« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2008, 05:50:24 PM »
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Eventually I grew weary of the exchange, and pulled out my identification that proved I was chief of homeland security training for a large national intelligence agency. He told me that he could probably let me go, but that I had better not try to take any more pictures of his precious roller coaster.

I often used that incident later in my courses, as an example of poor security thinking.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179904\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How do you know he wasn't a terrorist trying to determine whether you would make a good kidnap victim? Whilst you were politely providing responses to his questions the hunter was becoming the hunted.

Never give more information than is absolutely essential to someone you don't know.

Suggest you lock the door and hide under the duvet.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 05:51:31 PM by DiaAzul » Logged

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Rob C
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2008, 10:30:30 AM »
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Sorry, but that's got to one of the most naive sentences I've read in quite a while.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179878\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Innocently, I´m happy to have made your cynical day.

Rob C
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Diapositivo
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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2008, 06:58:18 PM »
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The City is full of tourists and locals taking pictures of everything all the time. I never even got a funny look shooting candids with an slr, people are used to it.

I can't imagine that many people will bother nor have the time to report people taking photographs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=179734\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The funny thing is that the imagined terrorist who needs to take pictures would do so with a point & shoot or with a portable phone, and with a couple of friends. He will do what everybody else is doing. Nobody will rush to him. Nobody will report his behaviour.

For 99% of people (especially including policemen) "suspicious" behaviour means "somehow different". If you do something different than you are a suspect.

If you take the same picture of the airport with a tripod, you are a suspect.
If you take out and use your spot lightmeter you are a suspect.
If you study your composition more than 2 seconds, you are a suspect.
If you carry a bag or some suspiciously full (of lenses) pockets on your vest, you are a suspect.

You are a suspect for no other reason that you do something "different", regardless of how your behaviour might be connected to any crime.

Just to give you an example, I have been considered a suspect for looking at night constellations (you have to reach some place without streetlamp and cars headlamp, suspicious behaviour) and for looking for/at foxes near where I live (you have to drive your car very slowly at 2 or 3 o' clock at night, what could be more suspicious?).

The ordinary policemen is not trained to anything else than "different behaviour" = "suspicious behaviour".

That's easy because "different" is understandable by any dog whereas "suspicious" requires turning the brain on. Besides, policemen like simple rules (however senseless) because they feel their bottom is better covered.

The result is that we are LESS secure with this kind of thinking and this kind of behaviour.

To give you another example, I was once in front of the synagogue with a tripod. A motorist stopped for a second and really stared at me with hate (I could not believe eyes could tell "hate" so well). A policemen came immediately after and prevented me from taking pictures. During this, everybody around was taking pictures with their point & shoot.

I was there again a few days ago, and I took four nice pictures. Free hand.

I could go there twenty days in a row and take twenty series of pictures without the least problem. I am sure if I go there with a tripod I am immediately questioned.

The average terrorist does not need to be a genius to overcome the zeal of the average policeman for sure.

Cheers
Fabrizio
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Misirlou
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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2008, 11:25:28 PM »
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How do you know he wasn't a terrorist trying to determine whether you would make a good kidnap victim?

Have you ever seen the movie "The Untouchables"? I'm thinking of the scene where Kevin Costner tells Sean Connery he's a cop, and Connery believes him. Very funny.
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« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2008, 01:16:00 PM »
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"Redeye advises all photographers to resist any urges to take odd photographs, or take normal photographs but in an odd way. We will shortly be arranging workshops by leading actors on how not to appear odd. If you have any doubts about whether you seem odd, we suggest you seek the opinion of a friend or colleague before considering reporting yourself to the hotline. The safest option is always to lock your camera away, and stay indoors behind net curtains until any odd feelings subside."

Redeye, the Photography Network, is based in North West England. It aims to make life easier for photographers and photography in the region and beyond, by providing information, opportunities, events, training and professional development. It is a voluntary sector non profit company. Anyone can become a subscriber free of charge.

Redeye Website
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