Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Adobe pricing in US vs. Europe  (Read 18467 times)
jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3533



WWW
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2008, 08:27:23 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I've had no printing problems with Photoshop, although I prefer Qimage. No crashes here either. Sorry.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181021\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just came across this comment from John Nack [PS Senior Product Manager]
"A tip on Photoshop Mac stability [March 11th]

According to an Adobe tech note, it's possible that the Adobe Version Cue CS3 3.1.0 update won't get installed correctly, leading to a damaged framework file that can cause Photoshop to crash.  To fix the problem, you can download this small updater and run it.  If you're not able to run the script (e.g. you don't have admin privileges on your machine), you can go into Photoshop preferences (Cmd-K), then go into File Handling and uncheck "Enable Version Cue." The tech note mentions other Adobe CS3 apps, but I've tried the fix only with Photoshop.  In any event running the updater is a good idea."


So obviously there are crashes and John Nack has also talked at length about the CS3 printing problems. And I think I'd take his word over yours anyday.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 08:27:39 AM by jjj » Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
Misirlou
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 657


WWW
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2008, 11:06:53 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Just came across this comment from John Nack [PS Senior Product Manager]
"A tip on Photoshop Mac stability [March 11th]

According to an Adobe tech note, it's possible that the Adobe Version Cue CS3 3.1.0 update won't get installed correctly, leading to a damaged framework file that can cause Photoshop to crash.  To fix the problem, you can download this small updater and run it.  If you're not able to run the script (e.g. you don't have admin privileges on your machine), you can go into Photoshop preferences (Cmd-K), then go into File Handling and uncheck "Enable Version Cue." The tech note mentions other Adobe CS3 apps, but I've tried the fix only with Photoshop.  In any event running the updater is a good idea."


So obviously there are crashes and John Nack has also talked at length about the CS3 printing problems. And I think I'd take his word over yours anyday.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181075\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ok, take whatever word you want. I'm just saying that I haven't had any problems: I never said nobody else has. My original statement was that perhaps Adobe tests their products a bit more completely than some of the other vendors, and that might lead to higher costs. In my experience, I typically have far fewer problems with new Adobe releases than many others. If you want to see reports of problems with a new photo ap, go take a look at the DXO forums.

For about the 5th time, now, if you hate the stuff because it's so unreliable, why do you buy it?
Logged
Misirlou
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 657


WWW
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2008, 11:14:08 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Grow up, in the UK it is very common for us to have to pay more simply as it's the UK when there is no actual economic reason to. Apple have been censured for it with iTunes for example, the UK paid more than Europe. [span style=\'font-size:12pt;line-height:100%\']Companies do it because they can get away with it[/span],  I and many others are fed up with that corporate thieving attitude. The commonly used term here in UK is 'Rip off Britain'. Apart from anything else, there is a huge variance in the extra % amount demanded for an Adobe product destined for a UK address.

So you've never downloaded software, well that's of no relevence to those of us who have and maybe if it saved you $2,000 dollars you would. Also, just because you haven't had software problems doesn't mean everyone else is OK too. Would you tell those who bought faulty Canons of late that they were talking nonsense, if say yours worked fine?

Can you really justify Brits paying up to 100% more for an identical product that has no extra shipping/production costs. IIRC, you also get more support/aftersales service help in US than here too.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181064\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Alright, you win. There is absolutlely no reason anything from a US corporation ought to cost a penny more there than it does in the US. It's just a huge conspiracy to deprive unwitting Limeys of their hard-earned pence.

I must finally reveal the truth. Adobe hates the UK. They've singled you out for special mistreatment. It all stems from a bitter, ongoing hatred of the way you spell the word "colour." Just gets under their skin.

And, by the way, my new Canon had one unexplained failure to start up in the last 6 months. I must insist the every single other buyer on the planet will have exactly my experience. If they don't, they're insane.
Logged
jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3533



WWW
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2008, 11:38:03 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Ok, take whatever word you want. I'm just saying that I haven't had any problems: I never said nobody else has. My original statement was that perhaps Adobe tests their products a bit more completely than some of the other vendors, and that might lead to higher costs. In my experience, I typically have far fewer problems with new Adobe releases than many others. If you want to see reports of problems with a new photo ap, go take a look at the DXO forums.
And what does that have to do with charging differening amounts according to your billing address, oh yes nothing. At all.
Besides judging by the deluge of complaints for CS3, they aren't testing well enough. The fact you haven't got a problem does not mean others don't. That's the point you are missing. And if you use Qimage, you may not have encountered the PS printing issues. And they deliberately broke the PC printing paradigm to match the stupid Mac one and also cocked up the Mac printing as well. Round of applause to Adobe.

Quote
For about the 5th time, now, if you hate the stuff because it's so unreliable, why do you buy it?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181124\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
ACR cannot be upgraded without buying CS3 so you are forced to upgrade when you may not want to. Besides the alternative to PS is....Huh
I don't hate the software, I resent being ripped off, there's a difference.
If you lived here and were being finacially screwed, you wouldn't be so smug.


Quote
Alright, you win. There is absolutlely no reason anything from a US corporation ought to cost a penny more there than it does in the US. It's just a huge conspiracy to deprive unwitting Limeys of their hard-earned pence.

I must finally reveal the truth. Adobe hates the UK. They've singled you out for special mistreatment. It all stems from a bitter, ongoing hatred of the way you spell the word "colour." Just gets under their skin.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181128\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Adobe do not hate the UK, they love it. The strength of our currency versus the weedy dollar, means they make loads more money without doing anything.

And you appear to be an complete arse [translation ass]  
Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
Misirlou
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 657


WWW
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2008, 12:10:38 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
And what does that have to do with charging differening amounts according to your billing address, oh yes nothing. At all.
Besides judging by the deluge of complaints for CS3, they aren't testing well enough. The fact you haven't got a problem does not mean others don't. That's the point you are missing. And if you use Qimage, you may not have encountered the PS printing issues. And they deliberately broke the PC printing paradigm to match the stupid Mac one and also cocked up the Mac printing as well. Round of applause to Adobe.

 ACR cannot be upgraded without buying CS3 so you are forced to upgrade when you may not want to. Besides the alternative to PS is....Huh
I don't hate the software, I resent being ripped off, there's a difference.
If you lived here and were being finacially screwed, you wouldn't be so smug.
Adobe do not hate the UK, they love it. The strength of our currency versus the weedy dollar, means they make loads more money without doing anything.

And you appear to be an complete arse [translation ass] 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181135\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Excuse me, but I define ass as a person who refuses to read what others have written, and then attacks them for things they never wrote.

1. I've had very few problems with the stability of Adobe products, so I don't mind paying a little more for them. I've paid lots of money for other things that don't work nearly as well (like DXO). I never said nobody else had any problems, not even once. I can only speak from my own experience. Why is that so difficult to get through to you?

2. I don't think it's reasonable for you to expect a foreign company to charge you the same prices they charge in their own country. You disagree. What else can be said? I believe there are legitimate reasons why it would cost them more to provide those products, especially in the UK. I've been there pal, and I'm astounded by how expensive everything is, from food, to housing, you name it. I wouldn't buy Photoshop there, but then I wouldn't buy anything else either, because the cost are outlandish. I don't know why you put up with it, but I should think Adobe is the least of your worries. Things seem more reasonable in other EU countries, but still higher than we're used to here. Sorry.

3. Now that you've descended to sophomoric name-calling, I see no point in continuing the discussion. You don't like the price of Adobe products, and you're hell bent on shooting down any potential explanation of why they might be more expensive where you live. Fine. Got it. End of discussion.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 12:57:49 PM by Misirlou » Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6026


When everybody thinks the same... nobody thinks.


WWW
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2008, 12:39:25 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
... in the UK it is very common for us to have to pay more simply as it's the UK when there is no actual economic reason to.
No actual economic reason? Yes, there is: it is simply known in Economics 101 as DEMAND. As long as you folks in UK do keep buying at those "outrageous" prices, there is the demand, and the companies would be crazy to sell you for less. Free-market solution: stop buying and open up the market for competition. Socialistic solution: cry mommy, run under her (the government's) big skirt, and continue blaming everybody else but yourself (and her).
Quote
... Companies do it because they can get away with it...
You finally got one thing right. And they can get away with not because they have not been caught by your Big Mommy yet, but because you keep buying at those "outrageous" prices.
Quote
... I and many others are fed up with that corporate thieving attitude...
What you call "thieving", I, as an investor in those corporations, applaud as a smart business practice, increasing their profit and my investment return.
Quote
... Can you really justify Brits paying up to 100% more for an identical product...
First of all, there is no reason to justify prices in a free market: producers are free to come up with whatever price they want, and the market will tell them if they were wrong; if they can sell at such a price (like in UK), they were obviously right.

But, since you seem to prefer the Big Mommy approach, I will try to offer an explanation (not justification): Selling identical product at different prices  is known in Economics 101 as Price Discrimination. Contrary to popular belief based on the use of the word "discrimination", it is not illegal to price discriminate. On the contrary, it is widely in use and also taught in every business school as a preferred weapon of choice in maximizing profit. Two conditions for price discrimination to work: proper customer segmentation (i.e., defining customer groups willing to pay more, e.g. UK customers, or business travelers) and ability to put up barriers between those groups.

UK companies price discriminate inside UK every day. When was the last time you flew and all the passengers on the same plane, departing from the same airport and arriving to the same airport, paid the same price? Among the economy class passengers, the airline will discriminate based on the proximity of the ticket purchase to the flight date, for instance. As for the business class... when you flew it, did you really feel that the service you got is 10x better than the service a coach traveller is getting? And yet you paid 10x more for the service that is perhaps marginally better (sure, you get metal fork vs. plastic). Why? Because the airline was able to segment you as a business (or affluent) customer, i.e., capable (or willing) to pay more. For some (affluent) the metal fork is the [price discrimination] barrier, for most others it is the required Saturday night stay.

Alternatively, forget Photoshop, switch to GIMP (a free clone).  Ooops... I almost forgot: you do not want the lowly clone, you want the real deal, the best product on this planet the mankind has come up with,  and you want it at the price YOU consider right... and of course you want the Big Mommy to force Adobe to sell it to you at that price.

Or how about this: come up with your own (i.e., UK or EU) Photoshop equivalent at an "outrageously" lower price, and I will be happy to buy it from you (even if you price it higher for the US market, but below the current Adobe price). Oh, no..., I forgot again: you prefer to invest your time in dragging foreign companies to court, rather than investing in research and development of your own.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 03:01:00 PM by slobodan56 » Logged

Slobodan

Flickr
500px
Ray
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8899


« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2008, 08:22:47 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
No actual economic reason? Yes, there is: it is simply known in Economics 101 as DEMAND. As long as you folks in UK do keep buying at those "outrageous" prices, there is the demand, and the companies would be crazy to sell you for less. Free-market solution: stop buying and open up the market for competition. Socialistic solution: cry mommy, run under her (the government's) big skirt, and continue blaming everybody else but yourself (and her).

You finally got one thing right. And they can get away with not because they have not been caught by your Big Mommy yet, but because you keep buying at those "outrageous" prices.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181147\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Good post, Slobodan. Mostly spot on, except the U.K consumer might be the victim here of both Adobe's pricing policies and the U.K government's taxing policies.

When the market is truly free in a global economy, the consumer is at liberty to shop around for the best price. I do, but Australia has a pretty fair system. We have a 10% GST that applies to almost everything. However, if the GST on a personally imported item is less than $50, the Australian government has very sensibly deemed that it is not administratively efficient to collect it.

That means I can order any physical product on the internet, and provided the total cost, including freight or postage, is not more than $500, I pay no additional fees or taxes. Nor do I have to pay any taxes when buying downloadable programs on the internet.

I am therefore a little aggrieved after downloading a trial version of CS3E (for example) and being offered by Adobe the option of buying a license, to find that Adobe refuses to sell me the license at the price quoted on their US website.

Now, I can appreciate the reasons for such a policy. If Adobe allows everyone to buy a license from their US website at US prices, then how can they maintain their profit margin without increasing US prices? Who is going to pay for the costs of maintaining Adobe offices and technical support in London, Sydney, Paris and Rome?

I think they would have to close down such offices. It would be interesting to hear from people who use and rely upon Adobe products in their businesses, to generate revenue. Would it be of concern to them if there was no local Adobe support?
Logged
jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3533



WWW
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2008, 10:28:18 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
No actual economic reason? Yes, there is: it is simply known in Economics 101 as DEMAND. As long as you folks in UK do keep buying at those "outrageous" prices, there is the demand, and the companies would be crazy to sell you for less. Free-market solution: stop buying and open up the market for competition. Socialistic solution: cry mommy, run under her (the government's) big skirt, and continue blaming everybody else but yourself (and her).
You convieniently ignored why I said one had to buy the new version of PS. ACR is a critical part of the workflow and Adobe made sure you couldn't use CS2 and ACR4, so upgrade was necessary. And there is no real competition to PS, so that's not an option either. So one has no option but to buy at rip off prices. Not having a choice is not how I define free market. CS3 was not even worth the upgrade [for me] and that's the first time I've ever said that about PS.

Quote
You finally got one thing right. And they can get away with not because they have not been caught by your Big Mommy yet, but because you keep buying at those "outrageous" prices.
Not by choice and many people simply got a cheap flight to NY and got their copy there along with a holiday they could claim tax releif for.


Quote
What you call "thieving", I, as an investor in those corporations, applaud as a smart business practice, increasing their profit and my investment return.
Sorry I should have said thieving on your behalf. No wonder you're so keen to defend them.

Quote
First of all, there is no reason to justify prices in a free market: producers are free to come up with whatever price they want, and the market will tell them if they were wrong; if they can sell at such a price (like in UK), they were obviously right.
Adobe have a near monopoly on design software for web and imaging and it is also prohibitively expensive to retrain on other software, when say you have years of experience in say Photoshop. So again , no choice in matter really.

Quote
But, since you seem to prefer the Big Mommy approach, I will try to offer an explanation (not justification): Selling identical product at different prices  is known in Economics 101 as Price Discrimination. Contrary to popular belief based on the use of the word "discrimination", it is not illegal to price discriminate. On the contrary, it is widely in use and also taught in every business school as a preferred weapon of choice in maximizing profit. Two conditions for price discrimination to work: proper customer segmentation (i.e., defining customer groups willing to pay more, e.g. UK customers, or business travelers) and ability to put up barriers between those groups.
Preventing free trade is certainly a good barrier.

Quote
UK companies price discriminate inside UK every day. When was the last time you flew and all the passengers on the same plane, departing from the same airport and arriving to the same airport, paid the same price? Among the economy class passengers, the airline will discriminate based on the proximity of the ticket purchase to the flight date, for instance. As for the business class... when you flew it, did you really feel that the service you got is 10x better than the service a coach traveller is getting? And yet you paid 10x more for the service that is perhaps marginally better (sure, you get metal fork vs. plastic). Why? Because the airline was able to segment you as a business (or affluent) customer, i.e., capable (or willing) to pay more. For some (affluent) the metal fork is the [price discrimination] barrier, for most others it is the required Saturday night stay.
You are paying for different things, so obviously you pay differently. I'm paying for the exact same thing, not a different object or different service.  Different prices depending on when you book for a limited availability, timed event are not comparable to something on sale for nearly two years at a set price.

Quote
Alternatively, forget Photoshop, switch to GIMP (a free clone).  Ooops... I almost forgot: you do not want the lowly clone, you want the real deal, the best product on this planet the mankind has come up with,  and you want it at the price YOU consider right... and of course you want the Big Mommy to force Adobe to sell it to you at that price.
No, I resent paying way more for the exact same product, purchased from the exact same American server at the same exact cost to Adobe as an American.
Adobe lied about the reasons it cost more, like translation costs and that's what annoyed me most. PR bullshit is BS no matter who spouts it.


Quote
Or how about this: come up with your own (i.e., UK or EU) Photoshop equivalent at an "outrageously" lower price, and I will be happy to buy it from you (even if you price it higher for the US market, but below the current Adobe price). Oh, no..., I forgot again: you prefer to invest your time in dragging foreign companies to court, rather than investing in research and development of your own.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181147\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The courts and any software engineers are completely separate entities and have nothing to do with each other. So that's a pathetic comment really.
Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3533



WWW
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2008, 10:58:53 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I've been there pal, and I'm astounded by how expensive everything is, from food, to housing, you name it. I wouldn't buy Photoshop there, but then I wouldn't buy anything else either, because the cost are outlandish. I don't know why you put up with it, but I should think Adobe is the least of your worries.  [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181141\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Duh! How can nobody understand we only pay, because we usually have no choice. It's not as if I think, "Ooh the milk's a bit pricey at Waitrose, I'll just pop to NY to get my groceries". Companies love to exploit that fact, Adobe included.
Buying elsewhere, even via the internet is very hard as many companies stop legitimate shops from selling to us. And then there's also warranty concerns, which tends to force you to buy locally. Just bought a brand new car, turned out to have damaged paint and needs  a respray, which would be impossible to sort out had we bought it in say Europe, which in theory we can do.
If I have to replace kit whilst abroad due to say theft, Canon for example would not repair anything under warranty that then had faults of their making. Just so they can keep their British prices high. It's funny how multinationals like to keep pricing so very local.
Warranties with software is not relevant as if it's buggy as hell, you're expected to wait for a patch. With Adobe that may be the next upgrade.

One of the chaps at the local Apple store said he was buying his next laptop whilst holidaying in the States, as it was cheaper than buying in the UK even with staff discount. Doing your Christmas shopping for say clothes and perfume in NY is seen as a sensible thing these days, not a flash thing.
Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3533



WWW
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2008, 11:04:52 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I think they would have to close down such offices. It would be interesting to hear from people who use and rely upon Adobe products in their businesses, to generate revenue. Would it be of concern to them if there was no local Adobe support?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181262\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Already addressed this point. No.
Most 'support' in the UK is anything but local and usually has a stong accent that can make comprehension really difficult. So speaking to Americans would be no problem.
Plus, it's not like they can fix any bugs in the software anyway.
Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
Ray
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8899


« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2008, 11:28:15 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Already addressed this point. No.
Most 'support' in the UK is anything but local and usually has a stong accent that can make comprehension really difficult. So speaking to Americans would be no problem.
Plus, it's not like they can fix any bugs in the software anyway.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181308\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If this is really true, then I think something has to change. I believe in the 'user pays' principle. What might have to change is the quality of local Adobe support. Presumably Adobe have decided to branch out into local support for a reason. If this policy is failing or is redundant because of adequate global internet support, then Adobe should get out; close its overseas offices and provide only  internet technical support.

It could be, of course, that U.K residents as well as Australians are subsidising the non-English speaking countries such as France, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc.

I don't know. I'm just surmising.
Logged
allan67
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 69


WWW
« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2008, 07:50:02 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
It could be, of course, that U.K residents as well as Australians are subsidising the non-English speaking countries such as France, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc.

I don't know. I'm just surmising.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181318\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Just for the fun of it, I've checked the prices of Photoshop CS3 (full version, not an update) on 3 Amazon sites: US(amazon.com), UK(amazon.co.uk) and France(amazon.fr).
The difference is kind of striking:
US -  $624.99 =   $624.99 -- 100.00%
UK -  £569.99 = $1156.05 -- 184.97%
FR - €1050.00 = $1634.38 -- 261.50%

So I don't think that UK or Australia really subsidise non-english versions.

Allan
Logged
Ray
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8899


« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2008, 11:25:24 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Just for the fun of it, I've checked the prices of Photoshop CS3 (full version, not an update) on 3 Amazon sites: US(amazon.com), UK(amazon.co.uk) and France(amazon.fr).
The difference is kind of striking:
US -  $624.99 =   $624.99 -- 100.00%
UK -  £569.99 = $1156.05 -- 184.97%
FR - €1050.00 = $1634.38 -- 261.50%

So I don't think that UK or Australia really subsidise non-english versions.

Allan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181388\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Wow! The French must be hopping mad. Just out of curiosity, I checked Australian prices for the full version of Photoshop CS3. Converting to US dollars at the current rate, rounded down to 90 cents US = A$1, I was surprised at the wide range of prices. Free market competition seems to be working here in Australia.

From a total of 27 stores, prices ranged from US$738 - $1027. I've forgotten what I paid for my CS3E upgrade, but I bought it from my usual bricks & mortar supplier, so I probably paid more than I need have.

I also came across a U.K. price at ECost Software for only 474 pounds sterling. It looks as though Slobodan is mostly right. You can shop around and often get a better price. It might even be possible to locate a retail company in the US that is prepared to export the software at a US price plus freight.

What concerns me here is that possibly Adobe gets its US retailers to sign an agreement that they will not export the product. If that's the case, it would seem to me to be anti-competitive and unfairly discriminatory.
Logged
Rob C
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 12213


« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2008, 01:41:42 PM »
ReplyReply

I don´t always agree wth Futt Futt, but on this occassion I believe him to be on the money.

As for Vista, I had to buy a new computer because the old laptop used for the net died on me. Guess what: the equally old Epson office printer will now not reveal the state of its four little cartridges, and the ony indication I have of running out of ink is when the damn thing refuses to print. Know why? Vista doesn´t care to offer me support of that little service which came naturally with ME; how bloody miserable can Big Brother get?

Rob C
Logged

Misirlou
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 657


WWW
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2008, 05:35:05 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I don´t always agree wth Futt Futt, but on this occassion I believe him to be on the money.

As for Vista, I had to buy a new computer because the old laptop used for the net died on me. Guess what: the equally old Epson office printer will now not reveal the state of its four little cartridges, and the ony indication I have of running out of ink is when the damn thing refuses to print. Know why? Vista doesn´t care to offer me support of that little service which came naturally with ME; how bloody miserable can Big Brother get?

Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181482\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nothing new there Rob; each new release of Windows has orphaned most of the printer drivers for the previous version. I still have my original Epson Stylus Photo, but the drivers have been garbage since XP came out, 7 years ago. I don't know why I haven't trashed that printer yet; maybe I'm just keeping it out of misplaced loyalty to the great service it gave under Windows 9X.
Logged
David Sutton
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 898


WWW
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2008, 08:51:35 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
What concerns me here is that possibly Adobe gets its US retailers to sign an agreement that they will not export the product. If that's the case, it would seem to me to be anti-competitive and unfairly discriminatory.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181440\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Adobe would be cutting their own throats if they did that. Surely a bigger threat to them is piracy. When I bought my copy of CS3 on ebay from a US retailer many people here couldn't understand why I would pay money for something easily available free. Being able to buy from third party sellers in the US is a useful safety valve for amateurs wanting software without the belief (rightly or wrongly) that the are being "ripped off". Considering it's a hobby, would I have paid the full local price, when I could have used that money for a cheap second car, or gone for the pirated version? Ah, um, probably got the  legal Photoshop. I think. But would have thought about it for a long time. David
BTW Having used Photoshop and seen what it can do, I would now just pay the money and put up and shut up, so to speak. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Edit: thinking it over, I would have gone to a competitor and stayed away from Adobe completely. My guess is that they know their market, and their pricing  (as others have said) reflects where they see themselves in that market
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 09:09:20 PM by Taquin » Logged

Ray
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8899


« Reply #56 on: March 14, 2008, 10:51:13 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Adobe would be cutting their own throats if they did that. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181580\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You might be right. If there's no contractual agreement for US retailers not to export Photoshop to whomever makes an order through the internet, then Futt Futt does not have a leg to stand on. Slobodan is right. Shop around for the best price. You've only yourself to blame for paying more than you have to.

If U.K and European residents have to pay a 17% VAT plus a hefty administrative charge, then that's not Adobe's fault.

When I last upgraded to CS3E, I attempted to buy a license from Adobe in the US but was redirected to the Australian site. I tried searching for a US retailer who sold Photoshop but failed to find one that sold to overseas customers. I probably prematurely concluded that there was some sort of conspiracy to prevent overseas customers availing themselves of the cheaper US prices.

I should have persevered because I now find that B&H sells Photoshop and appears to sell to anyone. An upgrade from CS2 to CS3E is priced at US$349. Freight with UPS, taking just a few days, is $37.50. At current exchange rates that's a total of A$430 which is under the $500 threshold beyond which GST applies.

Checking my invoice, I see I paid A$541 for my upgrade, including GST. Could I have saved $100 by buying from B&H? Perhaps, but not necessarily because when I bought this upgrade, the Aussie dollar was worth less in relation to the greenback. If the total price including freight is A$500 or more, I pay 10% GST in Australia.

I always remember the time I was taking care of my parents in the U.K. a few years ago. To keep my father entertained, I ordered a couple of Gilbert & Sullivan operas from Canada on DVD; total cost, including airfreight, about 26 pounds.

I was amazed when a few days later the postman rang the door bell and presented me with a bill for VAT plus administrative charges, which I had to pay before he would hand me the goods.
Logged
jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3533



WWW
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2008, 07:46:47 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
You might be right. If there's no contractual agreement for US retailers not to export Photoshop to whomever makes an order through the internet, then Futt Futt does not have a leg to stand on. Slobodan is right. Shop around for the best price. You've only yourself to blame for paying more than you have to.
Duh! Don't you think I would have tried that. Also when software updates are new to market, there are a lot less bargains than there are half way through cycle.
I've tried buying various items, software and hardware from the US and whenever I enter my address, I'm politely told to get stuffed.  So both legs working fine here. This only tends to be an issue with products from multinationals.
B+H don't do Creative Suite packages, which is what I use, cheaper than buying several individual packages and you get loads more software. Though I guess they can get them in if asked nicely. I'll consider tham next time around.

Quote
If U.K and European residents have to pay a 17% VAT plus a hefty administrative charge, then that's not Adobe's fault.
Admin Charge!?! And how does VAT account for these differences [besides I can claim VAT back so it's no extra for me]
US $2499 - UK $3989  Vat Excluded in UK price. CS3 Master Collection $1490/60% More.
US   $649 - UK  $983   Vat Excluded in UK price  CS3 Photoshop $344/53% more
These are the first two I checked, but I seem to recall some products being 80-100% more.
And recently you could upgrade from PSE [any version] to PS CS3 for hardly anything, but US only offer, I think it worked out about a quarter of the UK price or even less.


Quote
I always remember the time I was taking care of my parents in the U.K. a few years ago. To keep my father entertained, I ordered a couple of Gilbert & Sullivan operas from Canada on DVD; total cost, including airfreight, about 26 pounds.
I was amazed when a few days later the postman rang the door bell and presented me with a bill for VAT plus administrative charges, which I had to pay before he would hand me the goods.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I bought a second hand flash from B+H last year. Ordered on Sunday, it arrived Wednesday and that included me having to sort out VAT and charges for being charged VAT [which actually isn't even applicable to second hand goods], early Tuesday evening. So delivery 1st class, but customs nonsense, decidedly second class.
BTW you can claim your VAT back if you are a tourist. Need to fill out some foms though.


Someone mentioned piracy - Several years ago when Adobe first used activation and there were issues with it and some people ended up on location with a laptop that for some reason, now wasn't activated and Adobe were closed for the weekend.       Apparently the solution was to buy PS7 or whatever version it was and then install a pirated version.
Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3533



WWW
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2008, 07:51:59 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Adobe would be cutting their own throats if they did that. Surely a bigger threat to them is piracy. When I bought my copy of CS3 on ebay from a US retailer many people here couldn't understand why I would pay money for something easily available free. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181580\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Many piracy key generators or cracks are trojans/viruses, so possibly rather dangerous and in effect not so free after all.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 07:52:21 PM by jjj » Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
jjj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3533



WWW
« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2008, 08:05:13 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Ok, take whatever word you want. I'm just saying that I haven't had any problems: I never said nobody else has. My original statement was that perhaps Adobe tests their products a bit more completely than some of the other vendors, and that might lead to higher costs. In my experience, I typically have far fewer problems with new Adobe releases than many others. If you want to see reports of problems with a new photo ap, go take a look at the DXO forums.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=181124\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So how well exactly do they test their products, surely well enough that they would never have to withdraw an update as it was so awful, it actually corrupted user's data?  As that would be pretty bad.
BTW - Lightroom 1.4 has been taken off Adobe.com and the 1.31 update has been put up again and you are told to uninstall 1.4. Oops.
Logged

Tradition is the Backbone of the Spineless.   Futt Futt Futt Photography
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad