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Author Topic: Epson 3800 or 4880 redux? Good deal on 4880 right  (Read 17398 times)
pss
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« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2008, 09:55:21 PM »
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i have the 4800 and never switch the blacks so that is not an issue for me...the 4800/4880 have the paper tray, the back feed and a straight back feed and of course the roll paper feed, the 4800/4880 take larger carts which make printing cheaper...they also come with full 110ml carts.....afaik the 3800 only comes with half carts (a friend of mine has one and told me so...) so yes it takes less to charge the printer but it comes with a lot less ink....the 3800 prints full frame on sheets, no borders....i don't think the 4880 can do that, it prints w/o border on roll paper (and cuts w/o border) but i don't think it can do it on sheets...the 4800 cannot do either...

if you need to run big runs (100 smaller prints) or want roll paper go 4880....the cheaper ink will come in handy as well....
for all others the 3800 might be better....it is also more quiet....
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jdoyle1713
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« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2008, 06:18:22 AM »
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This Is By Far The best Epson Program I Have seen!!

Yes Three free Rolls Of Media Buyers Choice!!

Awesome deal!

Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com
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titusbear
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« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2008, 07:17:15 AM »
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Thanks for the information - worked as suggested.


Assuming it's the same as the 4800, you carefully pull the door straight towards you, away from the machine, as gently as possible, one side at a time.  The snapon hinges look like this:
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01af
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« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2008, 08:33:44 AM »
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... the 3800 only comes with half carts ...[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180738\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not true! At 80 ml, the 3800's cartridges are smaller than the 4800/4880's---but the set of nine carts that initially come with the printer are full.

Just like any inkjet printer, the 3800 uses part of the initial ink load to charge the ink lines. That ink is not wasted but will get used eventually. After inital set-up, the ink levels are around 70 % per channel. Inexperienced users may confuse this with carts not full.

-- Olaf
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pss
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« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2008, 03:12:12 PM »
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Not true! At 80 ml, the 3800's cartridges are smaller than the 4800/4880's---but the set of nine carts that initially come with the printer are full.

Just like any inkjet printer, the 3800 uses part of the initial ink load to charge the ink lines. That ink is not wasted but will get used eventually. After inital set-up, the ink levels are around 70 % per channel. Inexperienced users may confuse this with carts not full.

-- Olaf
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180830\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


maybe that is what my friend was referring to....i had the 4000 before the 4800 and both (the 4800 much less actually) used some ink to get started but like you say, the ink is not lost anyway.....
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Tklimek
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« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2008, 11:17:04 PM »
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Thank you everyone for all of the comments and suggestions; I believe I will most likely get a 4880.

My decisions now are to review costs:

IT Supplies in Chicago area:
$1799 for printer
No shipping cost
Free paper offer

Calumet in Chicago:
$1995 for printer
Unsure of shipping cost
Free paper offer
"Bill me later" option for 90 days interest free financing.

The "Bill me later" option is very tempting, but at a cost of $200 more for the printer and an "unknown" for the shipping.  I'll need to think about this while I'm on vacation.

Now I need to post another topic......which paper!!

Cheers...

Todd
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billg71
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« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2008, 10:31:10 PM »
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I'll suggest you check out the shipping part very carefully....

This is not a small printer, it comes strapped to a pallet and weighs well over a hundred pounds as shipped. UPS/FedEx won't touch it, it'll go "common carrier" which means it goes on the first truck with space out of the local shipping yard and then get transferred at the destination city to a local carrier who will bring it to your house, ring your doorbell and tell you it's sitting at the curb. Sign here, please, and have fun!!

IMHO, there's a strong case to be made for buying something like this locally if there's a dealer nearby. You should get delivery, unpacking and install as a courtesy from a local dealer, not to mention somewhere you can go to look someone in the face and ask questions if you need to.

If you do order it online, ask the vendor about something equivalent to B&H's White Glove Delivery service. That way the deliverer will take it inside your house, unpack it and set it up on the table or stand. They won't do the actual installation but at least it'll be inside and where you want it.

Just something else to think about.....

Bill
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Tklimek
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« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2008, 08:47:13 PM »
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Thank you all for the great information.

I'm happy to report that I'll be purchasing the 4880 as it seems too good of a deal to pass up.

I'll be purchasing it from my LOCAL Calumet store (about 4 minutes away from my house - lucky!) who have agreed to price match another Illinois store.

So I'll be getting the printer for $1,799, no shipping; I'm driving a truck over to pick it up.

I'll be getting the Epson "March Madness" sale and get what amounts to about $500 in free paper.

I'll also be getting a 3 months no-interest financing through Calumet.

My salesperson also recommended getting the $90 additional 3 year warranty; I figured it couldn't hurt so I'm doing that as well.

Now I just need to figure out what I'm going to print and where I'll put that beast!

I'm taking suggestions for the *free* paper rolls to choose from in another thread, so if you have any suggestions I'd appreciate them.  I just looked again at the sample prints Calumet provided to me on Epson Premium Lustre and for some reason (can't really pin it); doesn't seem to really please me.  I think I'll end up going more "matte".

The whole concept here (I know...probably a bad idea...really need to stop coming up with these *ideas* after drinking wine... ;-)  ), is to sell matted and bagged prints for relatively inexpensive prices and pay off the printer in 2-3 years.  If I can do that I would have accomplished my goal.  If I can do better than that.... YIPPEE!  It comes out to making about $35 a print (profit) and about 2 prints a months for 3 years.  I may simply end up with a bunch of matted prints and a very expensive printer on my desk....  ;-)  Such is the adventure that is life.

Thanks again!

 
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duraace
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« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2008, 09:43:51 PM »
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I'll also be getting a 3 months no-interest financing through Calumet.
 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184313\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That knocks the price down even further, providing you take the total amount and put it into some guaranteed high interest account.  They're betting you'll forget to pay by the due date, and they won't give you a minute grace.  That's the only downside.  I've done it a few times, set a reminder to myself, and saved about $600. Good move on the printer. Sounds like a great deal.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2008, 10:28:58 AM »
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c) The 3800 has a utility that reports the exact ink usage for every job to the nearest 1/100th ml.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=180481\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dale, I've been looking for this utility but can't seem to access it. Could you please describe the path to me? Also, does it track the usage of ink consumed in cleanings?

Mark
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Nill Toulme
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« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2008, 11:14:52 AM »
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...no shipping; I'm driving a truck over to pick it up.
...

Take a friend with you!

Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
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Tklimek
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« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2008, 04:30:16 PM »
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Thanks Nil!  I most certainly will; either my wife or a friend will be there to help; it's kind of a beast for a desktop.

I've made some measurements at the store yesterday; 14 inches high is enough clearance, the more the better obviously, and I think I can get away with about 22 inches deep, and about 33 inches wide.  I think I have a spot on my desk that will accomodate it.

I believe the printer weighs in at 89 pounds, plus packing etc. I'm guessing no more than 150 pounds total for picking it up.

Sounds like fun!!  
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Dale_Cotton
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« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2008, 05:52:29 PM »
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MarkDS wrote:
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Dale, I've been looking for this utility but can't seem to access it. Could you please describe the path to me?
Mark: I'm running XP. There is a Start menu folder called Epson LFP Remote Panel that has a shortcut to the app by the same name. One of the applets launchable from that app is a resident app called Print Watcher. Right-clicking on the Print Watcher icon in the Tool Tray brings up Show Job Logs.

Quote
Also, does it track the usage of ink consumed in cleanings?
It tracks every ink consumption event including discrete cleanings. I suspect that each time I start the printer part of the busy-ness that follows involves a mini-clean, if so, ink consumption from that is not recorded. But once when I left the printer off for a few days in a row it proceeded to do a major clean either at start-up or before the first job and logged that as consuming some 12 ml of ink, if I remember correctly.
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2008, 07:50:43 PM »
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MarkDS wrote:

Mark: I'm running XP. There is a Start menu folder called Epson LFP Remote Panel that has a shortcut to the app by the same name. One of the applets launchable from that app is a resident app called Print Watcher. Right-clicking on the Print Watcher icon in the Tool Tray brings up Show Job Logs.
It tracks every ink consumption event including discrete cleanings. I suspect that each time I start the printer part of the busy-ness that follows involves a mini-clean, if so, ink consumption from that is not recorded. But once when I left the printer off for a few days in a row it proceeded to do a major clean either at start-up or before the first job and logged that as consuming some 12 ml of ink, if I remember correctly.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184561\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks Dale, I'm running XP also, so I shall track that down. I have the printer in the systray alright, but for reasons I don't know, (using driver 5.51), the route to the Print Watcher is different; anyhow I got there, but a set-up menu appears and seems to require that the printer be on. So next printing session. Interestingly this particular feature is not covered in the manual.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2008, 11:10:35 PM »
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I picked up an Epson 7880, boxed, in a Honda CRV last fall. No problem, slides right in.

My wife and I carried up an Epson 7600 with ink last weekend to our second floor. Again, no real problem.

See if you can find a $200 Epson 4000, then use that serial number for the rebate for previous owners. You can run matte on that and get it for free.  

I have never had to de-curl the 3" core rolls for photo papers. Only the matte/fine art papers.

For 3 years I printed all photo Black on my 7600 and never swapped inks.  I was perfectly happy, so swapping may or may not be an issue for you.

Have fun!

Best,
Michael
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2008, 07:48:05 AM »
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I picked up an Epson 7880, boxed, in a Honda CRV last fall. No problem, slides right in.

My wife and I carried up an Epson 7600 with ink last weekend to our second floor. Again, no real problem.

See if you can find a $200 Epson 4000, then use that serial number for the rebate for previous owners. You can run matte on that and get it for free.   

I have never had to de-curl the 3" core rolls for photo papers. Only the matte/fine art papers.

For 3 years I printed all photo Black on my 7600 and never swapped inks.  I was perfectly happy, so swapping may or may not be an issue for you.

Have fun!

Best,
Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184608\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The reason why swapping isn't an issue with the 4000 and the 7600 is that those printers do not use an inkset which requires swapping. Therefore it is feasible to print on both matte and non-matte media with the same inkset by design.

The swapping problem only emerged with the x800 series printers using K3 inks, because Epson addressed the metamerism and bronzing issues associated with those printers by changing the configuration and chemistry of the black inks.

Metamerism was addressed by introducing a light-light black eliminating the need for mixing C, M and Y to produce light grey, and the rendition of black was improved by customizing black to the paper surface.

At the same time they did not redesign the printer to accommodate nine tanks rather than eight, and provide a separate channel for the 4th black. That was their big mistake, from which they began to emerge with 3800, did not emerge with the 4880, and will likely re-emerge when the 11880 technology is imported into the smaller size pro-printers at a time and at a price which we don't know yet.  

There is an improvement in the quality of black and white work in the 4800 relative to the 4000. For colour work the difference between them is negligible.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2008, 08:41:53 AM »
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The reason why swapping isn't an issue with the 4000 and the 7600 is that those printers do not use an inkset which requires swapping. Therefore it is feasible to print on both matte and non-matte media with the same inkset by design.

The swapping problem only emerged with the x800 series printers using K3 inks, because Epson addressed the metamerism and bronzing issues associated with those printers by changing the configuration and chemistry of the black inks.

Metamerism was addressed by introducing a light-light black eliminating the need for mixing C, M and Y to produce light grey, and the rendition of black was improved by customizing black to the paper surface.

At the same time they did not redesign the printer to accommodate nine tanks rather than eight, and provide a separate channel for the 4th black. That was their big mistake, from which they began to emerge with 3800, did not emerge with the 4880, and will likely re-emerge when the 11880 technology is imported into the smaller size pro-printers at a time and at a price which we don't know yet. 

There is an improvement in the quality of black and white work in the 4800 relative to the 4000. For colour work the difference between them is negligible.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

All the wide format models of Epson need ink swapping. The exceptions are the 4000, 11880, 3800 (to a degree) and the dye ink models that existed before the x800 range. In Epsons's theory the Archival pigment versions 7500, 9500, 10000 and 5500 could print on gloss and matte but they suffered from many compromises in the inkset. The 4000 had a UC inkset with both PK and MK aboard but a gray ink less, the 7600 UC model needed swapping between PK and MK (7 channel head), only the dye version didn't need swapping.

If one prints gloss and matte quite regular than a 3800 would be much more economic than a 4800. A Canon iPF5100 a more pro alternative. And there's the phatte black solution of Imageprint where PK takes the place of a gray ink on the UC models


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 08:42:52 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2008, 01:59:56 PM »
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MarkDS wrote:

Mark: I'm running XP. There is a Start menu folder called Epson LFP Remote Panel that has a shortcut to the app by the same name. One of the applets launchable from that app is a resident app called Print Watcher. Right-clicking on the Print Watcher icon in the Tool Tray brings up Show Job Logs.
It tracks every ink consumption event including discrete cleanings. I suspect that each time I start the printer part of the busy-ness that follows involves a mini-clean, if so, ink consumption from that is not recorded. But once when I left the printer off for a few days in a row it proceeded to do a major clean either at start-up or before the first job and logged that as consuming some 12 ml of ink, if I remember correctly.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184561\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dale, OK I got all that going, and thanks again for pointing me to the information - here's my take on it: most of the time when you start the printer, it is not cleaning. It is charging-up the lines, which is a different story - thank goodness. Sometimes when it starts-up it does do a cleaning - you can differentiate that because it makes more and different noises and takes longer. When that happens, take a look in the job log and see whether it logs it. I shall be doing so too. If it doesn't log all the ink being used for cleaning, it is a step backward from previous information Epson gave us - the nozzle check pages always showed how much ink was used for cleaning if we printed it before making prints and just after a cleaning.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2008, 05:53:30 PM »
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Mark: you still have the cumulative number on the nozzle check printout. I see no sign of any entry for start-up cleanings in the log. Today when I started the printer it behaved as usual; then when I sent the first job through it did an auto-clean before printing. This doesn't show as a separate entry in the log, it shows the extra ink combined with the ink used for the print job that triggered the clean.

Since I've printed this file before, I simply subtract the normal ink use per cartridge from the new ink use to get the cleaning amount. This one was a whopper at 19 ml or $15 by my calculation. And in this case it didn't occur because I hadn't been printing regularly: I did a letter-size print yesterday just to keep it happy.

My suspicion is that it wants to see N ml of ink go through the nozzles per day in print jobs to keep the nozzles clean. If some number less than N goes through over a few days, then it simply does a clean to use up the difference. I'm sure it's more complicated then that, but I wonder how close that is to the truth...

(BTW: I'm not complaining about this, just reporting. If that's what it takes to prevent clogs, then that's what it takes. Just the price we pay for using pigment/archival ink.)
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2008, 06:17:59 PM »
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Mark: you still have the cumulative number on the nozzle check printout. I see no sign of any entry for start-up cleanings in the log. Today when I started the printer it behaved as usual; then when I sent the first job through it did an auto-clean before printing. This doesn't show as a separate entry in the log, it shows the extra ink combined with the ink used for the print job that triggered the clean.

Since I've printed this file before, I simply subtract the normal ink use per cartridge from the new ink use to get the cleaning amount. This one was a whopper at 19 ml or $15 by my calculation. And in this case it didn't occur because I hadn't been printing regularly: I did a letter-size print yesterday just to keep it happy.

My suspicion is that it wants to see N ml of ink go through the nozzles per day in print jobs to keep the nozzles clean. If some number less than N goes through over a few days, then it simply does a clean to use up the difference. I'm sure it's more complicated then that, but I wonder how close that is to the truth...

(BTW: I'm not complaining about this, just reporting. If that's what it takes to prevent clogs, then that's what it takes. Just the price we pay for using pigment/archival ink.)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=184794\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dale, yes - that's the problem - it's bundling cleaning accounting with printing accounting - in other words, Epson has reduced the transparency of the reporting. In the old days (non-3800) you could subtract the cumulative usage number on the nozzle check before a cleaning from the one after the cleaning and see exactly how much ink was used for the cleaning. This is something Epson has disabled both in the nozzle check data and in the log data.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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