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Author Topic: Eizo or NEC  (Read 82728 times)
Roberto Chaves
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« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2008, 04:52:33 PM »
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Exactly. Its 8-bit in and 8-bit out. Having the higher bit is useful for altering the behavior of the device (so to speak) using a high bit LUT. But until we have a full high bit path, the issues of working with wider gamut displays on narrow gamut images is such that we find a far higher colorimetric difference in working with smaller gamut images.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190827\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've read someone quoting Karl Lang saying that the Nec 2180WG actually has true 10bit DVI support (a 10-10-10 bit path). But as you say, there is no operating system or graphics card that supports this today.

Just curious how Nec themselves tested this feature
Maybe they just tried it with a modded old Matrox card or some of the special greyscale cards for the 10bit greyscale displays that Eizo has..
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AlanG
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« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2008, 06:49:32 PM »
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I've read someone quoting Karl Lang saying that the Nec 2180WG actually has true 10bit DVI support (a 10-10-10 bit path). But as you say, there is no operating system or graphics card that supports this today.

Just curious how Nec themselves tested this feature
Maybe they just tried it with a modded old Matrox card or some of the special greyscale cards for the 10bit greyscale displays that Eizo has..
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes that monitor is 10 bit and it costs about $3500.  And there are a number of 10 bit graphics cards. I have one (ATI X1300) and didn't even know it was 10 bit when I bought it.  So they might be more common than you think.

See this quote:

"Witness a billion more colors in all of your graphics applications than you would with competing graphics boards
ATI’s Radeon™ X1000 series employs a 10-bit-per-color display engine that renders in excess of a billion more colors than competing graphics cards."

Then in fine print it says you need a ten bit monitor.  It makes no mention of operating sytems and applications software.

The X1950 also says, "Maps any input format to 10 bit per channel output."
 
It could be that somehow the card and 10 bit monitor will display more than a billion colors to reduce banding by filling in between the 8 bit colors.   This card is sold mostly for gaming and video so maybe there is a way for it to work for some things.  I don't know what happens when you adjust a photo on it with a 10 bit monitor.   In any case, I don't know if there are 10 bit printers so what can you do but look at the image?  (I'm really out of my field of knowledge so excuse me for speculating.)

Here a link to the card's specs:

[a href=\"http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1950/specs.html]http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1950/specs.html[/url]
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 07:02:00 PM by AlanG » Logged

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CynthiaM
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« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2008, 08:03:39 PM »
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You can switch between wide gamut and sRGB using the monitor's control buttons.
There are several selections - for sRGB, native, custom, and presets.
There is also NEC NaViSet software that I downloaded that might let you do this via the keyboard but I haven't looked at it yet.  Anway, it takes just a few  seconds to do it via the control buttons and is clear and easy.

Yes it is like 2 for one.  I don't think I'd be happy with a monitor that only works in wide gamut because most programs are not color aware and normal icons and sRGB photos viewed in wide gamut look very punchy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190755\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you, Alan, for your response.  Sorry for the delay in this acknowledgement, but have been busy with family stuff over the last couple of days.  And I pretty much figured out, as Andrew pointed out, that the sRGB mode is for viewing, only, not for calibration.  Too bad.  Maybe that's down the road.
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Roberto Chaves
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« Reply #63 on: April 23, 2008, 12:26:20 PM »
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Yes that monitor is 10 bit and it costs about $3500.  And there are a number of 10 bit graphics cards. I have one (ATI X1300) and didn't even know it was 10 bit when I bought it.  So they might be more common than you think.

See this quote:

"Witness a billion more colors in all of your graphics applications than you would with competing graphics boards
ATI’s Radeon™ X1000 series employs a 10-bit-per-color display engine that renders in excess of a billion more colors than competing graphics cards."

Then in fine print it says you need a ten bit monitor.  It makes no mention of operating sytems and applications software.

The X1950 also says, "Maps any input format to 10 bit per channel output."
 
It could be that somehow the card and 10 bit monitor will display more than a billion colors to reduce banding by filling in between the 8 bit colors.   This card is sold mostly for gaming and video so maybe there is a way for it to work for some things.  I don't know what happens when you adjust a photo on it with a 10 bit monitor.   In any case, I don't know if there are 10 bit printers so what can you do but look at the image?  (I'm really out of my field of knowledge so excuse me for speculating.)

Here a link to the card's specs:

http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1950/specs.html
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's interesting and odd, considering that there is one monitor (afaik) that supports 10-bit input, which normally isn't bought by gamers. Getting more information from ATI can be cumbersome from my experience.

Nothing will happen if you adjust a photo on it with a 10 bit monitor, as there is no support in photoshop etc for this sort of thing. You probably have to make a special surface in the application using a ATI SDK to be able to take advantage of this feature.

I'm going to see if I can find out more about this..
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Czornyj
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« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2008, 12:52:21 PM »
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That's interesting and odd, considering that there is one monitor (afaik) that supports 10-bit input, which normally isn't bought by gamers. Getting more information from ATI can be cumbersome from my experience.

Nothing will happen if you adjust a photo on it with a 10 bit monitor, as there is no support in photoshop etc for this sort of thing. You probably have to make a special surface in the application using a ATI SDK to be able to take advantage of this feature.

I'm going to see if I can find out more about this..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191430\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Actually, some models from Formac also feature 10 bit output. They advertise them as "panels capable of embracing video cards, which support 10bit and above look-up tables allowing you to choose extended colour palette’s to more than 1 billion as well as adjust Gamma control" - but I'd rather be sceptical about that (I'm not sure if any profiler supports 10 bit video card LUT calibration?).
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 01:01:02 PM by Czornyj » Logged

MarkF
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« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2008, 09:44:41 PM »
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How do these monitors compare for uniformity, the NEC & Eizo? Eizo make a big deal in their marketing about the uniformity of their panels. This is what is driving me crazy about my Samsung 214T, the left hand side is noticeably brighter than the right which makes correcting double-page spreads very frustrating. If I knew the NEC was going to be perfectly even I'll buy one in a blink. Anyone had any problems with evenness of illumination on the 2690? Just thought I would ask before buying, thanks in advance,
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AlanG
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« Reply #66 on: April 23, 2008, 10:56:01 PM »
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How do these monitors compare for uniformity, the NEC & Eizo? Eizo make a big deal in their marketing about the uniformity of their panels. This is what is driving me crazy about my Samsung 214T, the left hand side is noticeably brighter than the right which makes correcting double-page spreads very frustrating. If I knew the NEC was going to be perfectly even I'll buy one in a blink. Anyone had any problems with evenness of illumination on the 2690? Just thought I would ask before buying, thanks in advance,
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


My NEC 2690 looks perfectly even. It has a feature that automatically adjusts it to make it even.  Also, being an IPS panel, the image is even regardless of the viewing angle.

"ColorComp™ reduces uniformity imperfections by compensating for differences in color and luminance across the screen area. "

There is a complete review of the 2690. In the section on "Image Quality" it shows the how ColorComp works and calls the evenness "amazing." Reading this review and seeing the monitor sold me.

[a href=\"http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007/review-nec-lcd2690wuxi.html#Introduction]http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007...ml#Introduction[/url]
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 11:11:27 PM by AlanG » Logged

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MarkF
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« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2008, 11:44:11 PM »
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My NEC 2690 looks perfectly even. It has a feature that automatically adjusts it to make it even.  Also, being an IPS panel, the image is even regardless of the viewing angle.

"ColorComp™ reduces uniformity imperfections by compensating for differences in color and luminance across the screen area. "

There is a complete review of the 2690. In the section on "Image Quality" it shows the how ColorComp works and calls the evenness "amazing." Reading this review and seeing the monitor sold me.

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007...ml#Introduction
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191546\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the link. The ColourComp feature looks amazing. I'm sold!
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Josh-H
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« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2008, 12:08:36 AM »
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Another vote here for the 2690. Ive had mine for about 6 months and love it. Its stunning to work with images on this monitor.
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MarkF
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« Reply #69 on: April 24, 2008, 01:30:42 AM »
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Another vote here for the 2690. Ive had mine for about 6 months and love it. Its stunning to work with images on this monitor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191553\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Josh,

But where to buy In Australia? Made a few calls and none available!
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Nill Toulme
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« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2008, 07:19:48 AM »
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Note that ColorComp was turned off by default on my 2090uxi.  You have to enable it via the OSD controls.

Nill
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Czornyj
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« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2008, 07:23:00 AM »
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Hi Josh,

But where to buy In Australia? Made a few calls and none available!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191559\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In Europe there's a funny situation - you can't buy 2690UXi + Spectraview II separetly, and if you need a hardware calibration, you must buy a much more expansive "Spectraview 2690", that is basically a 2690WUXi with a "Spectraview optimized" sticker, a hood (that falls off), and a "Spectraview Profiler 4".

"Spectraview Profiler 4" can't be bought separetly, but - as a matter of fact - it's a rebranded basICColor Display 4. AFAIK, 2690WUXi users from Europe buy basICColor Display 4, and after a small menu settings change, hardware calibration of 2690WUXI becomes possible.

You may download basICColor profiler 14 day trial, and give it a try.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 07:25:16 AM by Czornyj » Logged

Nill Toulme
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« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2008, 07:33:35 AM »
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In Europe there's a funny situation - you can't buy 2690UXi + Spectraview II separetly, and if you need a hardware calibration, you must buy a much more expansive "Spectraview 2690", that is basically a 2690WUXi with a "Spectraview optimized" sticker, a hood (that falls off), and a "Spectraview Profiler 4".

"Spectraview Profiler 4" can't be bought separetly, but - as a matter of fact - it's a rebranded basICColor Display 4. AFAIK, 2690WUXi users from Europe buy basICColor Display 4, and after a small menu settings change, hardware calibration of 2690WUXI becomes possible.

You may download basICColor profiler 14 day trial, and give it a try.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191595\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But you still can't buy the Spectraview software separately and use it on a "non-Spectraview" EU model like you can in the US (and perhaps elsewhere), can you?  I understand that at least on previous NEC model lines, the EU models actually had a firmware cripple that kept them from being able to use the Spectraview software.  That never made any sense to me at all, and still doesn't.

I don't know about the EU Spectraview software — it's a completely different product — but the US version of Spectraview II is truly excellent and worth the freight.

Nill
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Czornyj
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« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2008, 07:56:35 AM »
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But you still can't buy the Spectraview software separately and use it on a "non-Spectraview" EU model like you can in the US (and perhaps elsewhere), can you?  I understand that at least on previous NEC model lines, the EU models actually had a firmware cripple that kept them from being able to use the Spectraview software.  That never made any sense to me at all, and still doesn't.

I don't know about the EU Spectraview software — it's a completely different product — but the US version of Spectraview II is truly excellent and worth the freight.

Nill
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[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191597\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

European software is not bad, either. BasICColor display seems to be the base for Nec Spectraview Profiler, and Quato iColor Display. And there's a menu trick that turns the firmware cripple off.
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Nill Toulme
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« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2008, 09:28:47 AM »
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Ah, OK ... but does the non-OEM version address the monitor's internal 12-bit LUTs directly like Spectraview does?  Seems unlikely.

Nill
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Czornyj
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« Reply #75 on: April 24, 2008, 10:10:45 AM »
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Ah, OK ... but does the non-OEM version address the monitor's internal 12-bit LUTs directly like Spectraview does?  Seems unlikely.

Nill
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[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

100% - it's the same software. Besides... you must buy it only if you want to be 200% legal:
[a href=\"http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=105510]http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum...ic.php?p=105510[/url]
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Dinarius
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« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2008, 11:42:41 AM »
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Since there's been no mention of basICColor's calibration software, I thought I'd give it a mention.

http://www.basiccolor.de/

http://www.basiccolor.de/english/Datenblae...d_E/squid_E.htm

Been using it for two years with an Eye-One and I love it.

Also, slightly off topic, but their neutral grey card is outstanding. It is truly neutral. Lab of 60, 0, 0, or RGB of 143. Worth its weight in gold. Typically German, very Vorsprung Durch Technik! ;-)

http://www.basiccolor.de/english/Orderform...isTargets_E.htm

Any views on the Apple 23" Display? Only reason I ask is that I can buy one for peanuts from a shop that's stuck with one.

Thanks.

D.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 01:57:21 PM by Dinarius » Logged
Josh-H
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« Reply #77 on: April 24, 2008, 05:01:00 PM »
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Hi Josh,

But where to buy In Australia? Made a few calls and none available!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191559\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I bought mine direct from NEC Australia and yes the spectraview II software does work on the Australian model. I have been using it for 6 months.
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MarkF
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« Reply #78 on: April 24, 2008, 08:46:12 PM »
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I bought mine direct from NEC Australia and yes the spectraview II software does work on the Australian model. I have been using it for 6 months.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191688\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Do you happen to know if the Spectraview software is compatible with either XP pro 64 bit or Vista x64?
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Josh-H
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« Reply #79 on: April 24, 2008, 08:58:41 PM »
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Do you happen to know if the Spectraview software is compatible with either XP pro 64 bit or Vista x64?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191752\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am running it on Vista 32 bit - no problems

Have not tried it on XP or Vista 64.
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