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Author Topic: iMac too bright  (Read 11423 times)
chris moody
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« on: April 08, 2008, 11:22:41 AM »
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I have run into an issue with a 24 iMac. Even at the lowest brightness setting, it is still too bright for print comparison even in a brightly lit room (around 200). Apart from specifying a whitepoint of 6500K or lower during calibration (as opposed to native) is there any other way of dealing with this?
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ericstaud
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2008, 12:21:32 PM »
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Sunglasses.  ND filters.  Brighter viewing environment.

This is common to all the 24" iMacs.  I suppose there is a chance that another monitor profiler might have a way of getting a lower luminance.  Maybe try the BasicColor Display demo?  I think the real answer is that you're stuck at 200 though.
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scottish
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2008, 04:22:23 PM »
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Although I don't have an iMac, some have recommended the freeware program Shades to tone down their screen brightness.
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chris moody
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2008, 04:49:33 PM »
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Thanks for the responses, I am also looking at Coloreyes. I have just downloaded the trial version and think it may be what I am looking for. I am a bit wary of using the likes of Shades as I am not sure how it will affect profile creation.
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Anthony R
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2008, 06:18:18 PM »
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I just read this here on LL the other day. Maybe it will help you.

"If your screen seems washed-out, check the contrast under Universal Access."

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....ndpost&p=187564
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2008, 07:14:43 PM »
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Which gamma (i.e., 1.8 or 2.2) and which hardware/software are you using for calibration?
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chris moody
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2008, 02:43:32 AM »
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Which gamma (i.e., 1.8 or 2.2) and which hardware/software are you using for calibration?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188324\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Using the Eye One Display 2 with Eye One Match (latest version), Gamma 2.2.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2008, 02:44:00 AM by chris moody » Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2008, 11:39:28 AM »
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Using the Eye One Display 2 with Eye One Match (latest version), Gamma 2.2.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188391\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hmmm... I am calibrating mine with Monaco Optix and never had any problems with print matching.  As matter of fact, my brightness bar stands right in the middle after calibrating (i.e., there was no need to use the minimum setting, let alone third-party solutions to further 'dim' the display).
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jackbingham
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2008, 03:44:36 PM »
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Ok, perhaps I can clear some of this up. Many, not all Imacs are way to bright. Setting their manual slider to the lowest possible is still often too bright. The only way to bring this down further is to use the video lut. Yes that's a compromise, but buying the imac for critical editing is too. So since you're already there, if you need a dimmer display, set the hardware brightness slider to about 10% and let the calibration software do the rest in the video card. Good monitor software will keep banding to a minimum. There is no big secret here in anybody's software. It's just a matter of setting the monitor to a level that is reasonably stable and then using calibration/profiling software to bring the video lut down to your target white point.
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Jack Bingham
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chris moody
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2008, 05:50:50 PM »
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Ok, perhaps I can clear some of this up. Many, not all Imacs are way to bright. Setting their manual slider to the lowest possible is still often too bright. The only way to bring this down further is to use the video lut. Yes that's a compromise, but buying the imac for critical editing is too. So since you're already there, if you need a dimmer display, set the hardware brightness slider to about 10% and let the calibration software do the rest in the video card. Good monitor software will keep banding to a minimum. There is no big secret here in anybody's software. It's just a matter of setting the monitor to a level that is reasonably stable and then using calibration/profiling software to bring the video lut down to your target white point.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188529\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the response Jack.
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chris moody
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2008, 03:24:21 AM »
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On reflection I now have another question in relation to Jacks answer, does this mean that when the monitor is physically adjusted to it's lowest possible brightness, that the eye one will not compensate in the LUT if it is still to bright? Does setting the brightness to 10% "encourage" the software to do this? Thanks in advance.
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jackbingham
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2008, 06:28:42 AM »
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On reflection I now have another question in relation to Jacks answer, does this mean that when the monitor is physically adjusted to it's lowest possible brightness, that the eye one will not compensate in the LUT if it is still to bright? Does setting the brightness to 10% "encourage" the software to do this? Thanks in advance.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189363\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The eye one software does not communicate with the monitor hardware at all. It can only adjust the video lut and the profile. Setting the brightness to 10% is recommended from our testing because at zero we've seen instability problems trying to hit and maintain a white point consistently.
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Jack Bingham
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2008, 09:18:38 AM »
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IF its too bright, its too bright and no software or setting (other than altering the backlight intensity) is going to solve this.

You could leave the damn thing on 24/7, it will get dimmer over time.

You can (and probably should) RAISE the intensity of the light box or booth you're using to compare print to display.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 09:21:01 AM by digitaldog » Logged

Andrew Rodney
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chris moody
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2008, 12:06:17 PM »
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You can (and probably should) RAISE the intensity of the light box or booth you're using to compare print to display.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189403\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I know from reading your posts in various forums that you know what you're talking about Andrew, but I don't get the logic of adjusting a viewing light source to match a print unless the light source happens to be similar (in intensity and colour) to the light source under which the image will eventually be viewed.

Lets take a wedding album for example. If I had to hazard a guess, it would be that the eventual viewing source is going to be tungsten (here in Ireland anyway), and a fairly dimn tungsten source at that...nothing that could be compared to the output of a lightbox.

Sometimes I think all the effort put into CM goes out the window because the eventual viewer pays very little attention to the quality of light he/she looks at the image under.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2008, 12:15:58 PM »
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I know from reading your posts in various forums that you know what you're talking about Andrew, but I don't get the logic of adjusting a viewing light source to match a print unless the light source happens to be similar (in intensity and colour) to the light source under which the image will eventually be viewed.

OK, let me explain. What we hope to accomplish is a screen to print match naturally. That means we need some viewing booth or system near the display such that we can view the image on the display and the print. I can suggest a number of products and solutions, and I'd suggest the print booth (if we can use this term) be 90 degrees from display and such that light isn't affecting the display itself.

We want the luminance of the display and booth to be such that we achieve a visual match. That means altering one or the other (or both).

With a display, ideally we would drive it as low as possible since that results in it laster longer. Fortunately (or unfortunately in this discussion), LCD's can pump out a great deal of luminance. Fortunately so can whatever we use to view our prints.

I use both a continuous tone Solux lighting system (its spectrum is ideal) and a GTI Fluorescent box. The later has a dimmer to control the intensity of the booth which is great, and doing so doesn't affect the color. Can't do that on the Solux, I have to physically move the distance since I can't dim them (or the color changes). I use the Solux for larger print work, the Fluorescent box sits near the display and I can alter either or both the both and the display to result in a visual match.

You have a problem with print to display matching whereby the display is too bright compared to the print and you can't turn the display down any more. So can you raise the intensity of the viewing conditions?

OK, you move from your editing area to anywhere else. Yes, whatever illuminant you view the prints under may be vastly different from the booth, but then the display isn't in the picture here so its not a huge issue. Well it is an issue when you make a nice print that matches your display and viewing booth, then a client views them in their living room, under totally different lighting that's reflecting off their pink walls. That's a different issue we can look at (actually, there really is no prefect solution). But getting back to print-screen matching, can you alter the viewing conditions of the print?
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Andrew Rodney
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chris moody
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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2008, 12:46:54 PM »
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But getting back to print-screen matching, can you alter the viewing conditions of the print?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189450\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I can do that....? But the screen really is very bright, around 200 at lowest setting.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 12:48:59 PM by chris moody » Logged
jackbingham
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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2008, 01:50:49 PM »
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Yes, I can do that....? But the screen really is very bright, around 200 at lowest setting.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189457\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You can use display calibration software to cut the brightness of the monitor using the video lut. It is not ideal but neither is a screen that bright. You may suffer a little banding in the shadows but you have to pick your poison. Brighten your viewing environment or tolerate a little banding. You can decide which works best for you
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Jack Bingham
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chris moody
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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2008, 02:02:10 PM »
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You can use display calibration software to cut the brightness of the monitor using the video lut. It is not ideal but neither is a screen that bright. You may suffer a little banding in the shadows but you have to pick your poison. Brighten your viewing environment or tolerate a little banding. You can decide which works best for you
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189481\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Banding it is then. Cheers guys, colour/color guru advice always appreciated.
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ejmartin
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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2008, 02:18:46 PM »
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Banding it is then. Cheers guys, colour/color guru advice always appreciated.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189489\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have a 24" iMac in my office that I use for viewing but not editing (have a dedicated Mac Pro for that).  It is indeed way too bright.  I do calibrate it using an Eye-one Display 2, and I use the freeware program Shades that was mentioned earlier to dim the display; it can take things down a notch from the ridiculously bright LCD.  I use the brightness slider in System Preferences to get close without pegging it all the way to the left (dunno if it's true, but I read in a number of places that it's not a good idea to have the brightness slider all the way to the left).  Then I use shades to adjust the luminance to the right level, then run the Eye-one calibration.  Seems to get me a pretty good profile and my eyes are not being blasted.

The current version of shades runs as a preferences panel, so you access it via system preferences just like the usual display brightness control.  According to the release notes, it acts by adjusting monitor gamma, but has a wider range than the OS/X brightness control.  Previous versions mucked up the RGB values reported by the DigitalColor Meter, but the latest one fortunately does not.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 02:34:19 PM by ejmartin » Logged

emil
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« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2008, 02:32:41 PM »
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I have a 24" iMac in my office that I use for viewing but not editing (have a dedicated Mac Pro for that).  It is indeed way too bright.  I do calibrate it using an Eye-one Display 2, and I use the freeware program Shades that was mentioned earlier to dim the display; it can take things down a notch from the ridiculously bright LCD.  I use the brightness slider in System Preferences to get close without pegging it all the way to the left (dunno if it's true, but I read in a number of places that it's not a good idea to have the brightness slider all the way to the left).  Then I use shades to adjust the luminance to the right level, then run the Eye-one calibration.  Seems to get me a pretty good profile and my eyes are not being blasted.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189495\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I did try shades but seeing that none of the trusted commentators on this forum mentioned it, decided to give it a miss. Also, when I tried profiling my monitor while running it the brightness seemed to flash on and off. Not good.
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