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Author Topic: ColorMunki  (Read 115068 times)
AndreG
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« on: April 11, 2008, 06:39:43 AM »
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Hi,

Is there a lucky fellow who had the privilege to try out the new ColorMunki from X-Rite ? It just seem to good to be true.

Here is a video showing it in action:

http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Colour%20Manageme...unki/munki.html

Thank you for sharing!
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 07:03:23 AM by pratic » Logged

francois
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« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 07:18:38 AM »
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Hi,

Is there a lucky fellow who had the privilege to try out the new ColorMunki from X-Rite ? It just seem to good to be true.

Here is a video showing it in action:

http://www.photo-i.co.uk/Colour%20Manageme...unki/munki.html

Thank you for sharing!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Andrew Rodney (aka digitaldog) has one for testing. You might read the other discussions about ColorMunki ([a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?act=Search&CODE=show&searchid=036d2509ba86513f654ef76037456a04&search_in=posts&result_type=topics&highlite=colormunki]here[/url]).
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Francois
AndreG
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« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 07:26:34 AM »
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Thank you for the reference.
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A. Andrew Gonzalez
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« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2008, 12:01:18 PM »
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Another review here:

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews_colormunki_photo.php
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 12:03:46 PM by A. Andrew Gonzalez » Logged

A. Andrew Gonzalez
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2008, 11:22:36 AM »
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Don't forget that like any other comments you read, they are still not using finalised software (no matter what they say ;-). I too have been involved in testing for the last year or so and am waiting for finalised software until I'd want to go into any detail.

I'd add my own thoughts from testing [a href=\"http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/profiling/colormunki.html]Initial review[/url]

Definitely works well, but some key features are still problematic in the current s/w release ;-)
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digitaldog
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 12:01:28 PM »
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Definitely works well, but some key features are still problematic in the current s/w release ;-)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I was able to download the final software, but alas, the beta hardware will not run (a big mistake on X-Rite's part IMHO) so I can't comment on the final.

The product is shipping, the software is said to be golden. Considering that non of the beta sites I know of got a copy or could use it for testing, it will be real interesting to see how users find the product in terms of software. I have no issues with the hardware; its quite good. The software? Time will tell.
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Andrew Rodney
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 12:53:11 PM »
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I was able to download the final software, but alas, the beta hardware will not run (a big mistake on X-Rite's part IMHO) so I can't comment on the final.

The product is shipping, the software is said to be golden. Considering that non of the beta sites I know of got a copy or could use it for testing, it will be real interesting to see how users find the product in terms of software. I have no issues with the hardware; its quite good. The software? Time will tell.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188990\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I've got both beta hardware (which as you say won't run) and a shipping version of the hardware (which I've been using for all the recent beta testing). Although the software maybe being made more widely available, it most definitely isn't ready for 'prime time' yet - there are still issues that are being sorted out.  Since this relates to aspects of using the hardware, I'm waiting for the next release before doing any more detailed evaluation.  Mail me directly if you want since we are now out of the NDA period :-)
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digitaldog
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2008, 01:13:38 PM »
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First, as far as I'm concerned, my NDA is up with respect to beta which is over. I've heard nothing about new builds (in fact I only knew about the released version from another post). Since I can't use the newer software, I'm pretty much done until I hear from X-Rite about getting a real unit. They are in a bit of a state of chaos now so I'm just going to go back to real work <g>.

I'm not surprised that you're finding issues with the final software product. I could say that the beta process created by X-Rite was one of the most dysfunctional processes I've witnessed in a very long time or that they could learn a lot about software development from the company they purchased (GMB) but that would be only be an expression of tough love, which hasn't worked well with the company in the past.

As I said, I'm real impressed with the hardware, but that was something developed a very long time ago in a country far far away from the US. The software is another issue all together. I'll await the comments from the customer base as it trickles in.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
Scott Martin
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2008, 03:35:01 PM »
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They are in a bit of a state of chaos now... [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189002\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Boy, no kidding! I'm sure it's fine to talk about said consumer product but NDAs aren't up yet for unannounced technologies.
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2008, 04:27:41 PM »
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Boy, no kidding! I'm sure it's fine to talk about said consumer product but NDAs aren't up yet for unannounced technologies.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189033\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's why I was referring to the ColorMunki ;-)
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eronald
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2008, 05:24:06 PM »
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As I said, I'm real impressed with the hardware, but that was something developed a very long time ago in a country far far away from the US. The software is another issue all together. I'll await the comments from the customer base as it trickles in.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189002\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My NDA re. ColorMunki is up too, obviously.

If it helps, they have already fired the guy who saw through the development of this product, over in Switzerland - his name is Michael Lanke, and I think he did a really nice job on the hardware and didn't deserve this.

On the other hand, they are in such extreme debt from all those M&A's that I guess desesperation breeds layoffs.

Edmund
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 05:27:55 PM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
natureday
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2008, 10:30:47 PM »
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they are still not using finalised software for it and it is hard to use in my opinion.



Quote
Hi,

Is there a lucky fellow who had the privilege to try out the new ColorMunki from X-Rite ? It just seem to good to be true.

Here is a video showing it in action:



Thank you for sharing!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188674\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 10:31:30 PM by natureday » Logged
keith_cooper
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2008, 04:36:07 AM »
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they are still not using finalised software for it and it is hard to use in my opinion.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189594\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes I'd agree about the software, but what aspects do you find hard to use?

Is this based on actually using a CM or just watching the videos?

I was initially quite sceptical of the sliding the device across the paper approach, but after a few goes it really is easy.  I've been making some targets for using the CM for QTR linearisation and as long as you have decent size patches it works well (at the moment I'm having to fiddle the data formats a bit, but the measurements are fine)

The way of hanging the CM over your screen with the sand filled strap is a little awkward, but it seems to work fine.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2008, 08:20:46 AM »
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Yes I'd agree about the software, but what aspects do you find hard to use?

First, the software is finalized (the product is shipping, the software has to be downloaded).

I can't comment on how much its changed since the last beta, as I can't even use the stinkin product now with the beta hardware. Don't get me started.

Its not "hard to use", its very poorly designed for the market X-Rite was (is) going after. Do designers and similar users really need to hear about gamma? Come on, its 2008. X-Rite had an opportunity to make this a far easier process, in terms of what they ask in the UI, the instructions provided etc. Instead, they pretty much put a more modern UI on EyeOne Match. They failed IMHO to produce a more modern color management package that reduces to a bare minimum all the color geek stuff this market shouldn't have to even think about.

Hardware wise, GretagMacbeth has a very nice product they designed. Software, done in the US, kind of messy. Its like Audi providing a great car to Ford, then having them rip out the nice interior and making it look like a 1971 Pinto! OK, its not that bad, but the software wasn't at all designed as well as the hardware.
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Andrew Rodney
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http://digitaldog.net/
joncanfield
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2008, 11:02:59 AM »
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My review on PhotographyBLOG was based on what I was told was the shipping version of software ( I had to download it). The software works fine with the 2nd CM they sent to me (had problems with printer profiling on the first one), although the part number still has -DEV. Not sure if regular production units have this -DEV in the part number or not - it could be Development, it could be Device, who knows?

That said, I agree with the others - the software is funky but it does a good job, especially when you consider the price and the target audience. Will I be throwing out my i1 Photo and ProfileMaker? Nope.
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Scho
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« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2008, 03:49:02 PM »
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My review on PhotographyBLOG was based on what I was told was the shipping version of software ( I had to download it). The software works fine with the 2nd CM they sent to me (had problems with printer profiling on the first one), although the part number still has -DEV. Not sure if regular production units have this -DEV in the part number or not - it could be Development, it could be Device, who knows?

That said, I agree with the others - the software is funky but it does a good job, especially when you consider the price and the target audience. Will I be throwing out my i1 Photo and ProfileMaker? Nope.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=189965\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
My purchased CM also has the -DEV part number.  I had some initial system (OS 10.5.2, Intel Mac) problems that I think may have been caused by the appset module or monitor calibration reminder so I just disabled both and currently things are back to normal.  Profiling works just fine for me (both RGB for Epson driver and also CMYK for the ColorBurst X-Photo RIP).  I've also worked out some targets and export file conversions for QTR linearization and Create-icc measurement with the ColorPicker module.  In general I'm very pleased with the Munki performance although as others here have pointed out the software still needs some work.  The output quality is more than adequate for both my color and B&W profiling needs so my i1 (very old model) and x-rite Pulse are both going on the block.  I've tried some profile optimization, specifically for toned monochrome printing and I think this part needs some more work.  The "optimized" profiles do seem to yield marginally better prints but I'd like to know more about what this procedure is actually doing under the hood.  Monitor calibration worked perfectly.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2008, 10:41:28 AM »
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As I said, I'm real impressed with the hardware, but that was something developed a very long time ago in a country far far away from the US. The software is another issue all together. I'll await the comments from the customer base as it trickles in.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Could one describe the two stage target/reading as iterative?  I get the impression it is more like sculpturing where a rough shape based on 50 readings creates new coördinates for a better fitting next shape. Probably keeping the initial readings as well. Or is the second set of patches very similar to the first set  ? Must be a smart system if it rivals much larger target systems.

The low number and large patches to start with + another set of similar patches afterwards should diminish the risks that could happen with iterative readings of larger targets with smaller patches. In that case there's probably more fluctuation in the measurements than the precision planned with iterative readings.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers[/url]
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digitaldog
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« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2008, 11:42:22 AM »
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Could one describe the two stage target/reading as iterative?

Absolutely!
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Andrew Rodney
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http://digitaldog.net/
Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2008, 04:13:59 AM »
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Andrew,

If it is just the iterative method that is bringing this quality, would a similar approach with few patches and two targets/readings not be used a long time ago ?  Iterative has been discussed enough and some profile creators have it aboard, it is hard to believe nobody ever tried that with smaller targets in the past.

Nothing special like shifted lamp spectrum or different profile builders for the two stages ?

Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
« Last Edit: April 18, 2008, 04:15:19 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2008, 08:00:47 AM »
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The iterative method isn't a new idea. Its been used in the past. What's somewhat unique is the quality of the profiles with so few patches, something others (including GretagMacbeth) have tried in the past with little success.
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Andrew Rodney
Author “Color Management for Photographers”
http://digitaldog.net/
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