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Author Topic: 20D Up Grade !!  (Read 4648 times)
Jonathan Wienke
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« on: September 04, 2005, 09:41:39 AM »
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Those who know, won't tell due to non-disclosure agreements, and those who are willing to speak by definition are disseminating partial/inaccurate rumor/hearsay. Canon usually introduces new stuff in late winter - early spring or late summer - early fall, so in another 6 months or so the 20D may get an update. Or it may not.

If you mostly shoot landscapes and panoramas and such, full-frame would be advantageous as you'll get wider coverage with wide-angle lenses than you will with the 10D/20D. Small-frame is only an advantage if you shoot a lot of telephoto stuff like birds or sports.
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2005, 10:34:10 AM »
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and i would not have to spend 3000 USD on a new camera plus the zoom 600mm we are talking big money...
What are you babbling about? 600mm isn't a particularly useful focal length for landscapes. It's for shooting birds from far away or sports where the players are far away or voyeur shots of the neighbor lady across the field undressing for bed, not panorama/wide angle shots. You would never use a 600mm lens for anything you said you shoot, so forget about its cost. It's irrelevant, you don't need one.

For stitched panoramas, a 24-70/2.8L or the new 24-105/4L IS would be just fine, and for single-capture panoramas a 17-40/4L would be appropriate in most cases. None of these lenses cost even half as much as the 5D.
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2005, 03:14:53 PM »
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Get the Canon 70-200 f4L with 1.4X telecovertor. With a 20D that will become 450mm plus you will be able to break it up into a very versatile, cheap and light lens combo compared to the 100-400 which isn't cheap or light.

TBH for that kind of landscape work, especially silhouette and sunset work, the 8 megapixels of the 20D is plenty, even the 6 of the 10D is sufficient. There isn't that much detail to resolve anyway with those shots. You would be amazed at what absolutely perfect technique coupled with top class lenses can do with even a 6 megapixel sensor.
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Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2005, 09:35:03 AM »
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For 24x36 prints, the 11 megapixel 1Ds is barely adequate. You need really good glass (primes or L zooms only, consumer-grade coke bottles need not apply) and must get the composition right in-camera so that no cropping is necessary, and even then the print isn't going to have the crispness of a 12x18. A 10D simply isn't going to cut the mustard, nor will a 20D or even a 1D-MkII, which I happen to own. The 1D-MkII makes a good 20x30, but that's as large as I go with 8MP. If you really want good 24x36 prints, you can't screw around with the cheap stuff, you need at least 11MP and top-notch lenses or you're wasting your time.
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Ben Rubinstein
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2005, 12:31:02 PM »
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You too Howard? I bought the 10D a week before the 20D was announced, didn't regret it much, I was fed up to the  back teeth with the D60's AF.
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davidr805
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2005, 07:40:44 PM »
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been out for a few days so lets se .. so far I have learn that:

a) In order to make big prints 24" x  36" even a 11 megapixels 1Ds is not enough. So upgrading to an 20D wont be worth..

d) if buying a zoom lens ( that I do need in order to take landscape pictures ) i should consider the canon 70- 200mm.. with teleconverter  (price en quality is ok)

e) a L quality lens won't be much difference when making big prints.

c) I should wait for the 20D upgrade and learn to stitch is  a must  ( what about the PhotoZoom Pro ? )

thanks
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davidr805
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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2005, 09:22:35 AM »
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Like I have say on another post .. I am ready to buy a new camera . I have the 10D and planing on buying the 20D ... But with the new 5D and a help on the forums I have come with new questions that I now consider more relevant.

I mostly shot sunsets, panoramas, abstracts... and like to make big prints from them..

Like I said I initially had make plans on buying the 20D but it seems that it will only give me 1 or 2" extra. So it came the 5D it does have more pixels but it has a full censor and I would have to buy a longer telephoto plus the cost of the camera... is just not an option.

It seems that my perfect camera would be something like the 20D with the same corp factor but with more pixels 12 or so ... I wouldn't have to buy a bigger zoom and all ready have a 15 - 30 mm lens and more important the price is just right !!

so when would we have it ... does canon plans to make one?? should I wait?

thanks
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davidr805
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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2005, 10:13:13 AM »
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Thanks for your help Jonathan,

What is best .. to get 1 panoramic 6.3  mpixel or  2   pictures  of 6.3 mpixels and stitch them .. (i like making big prints )

It seems like for me i should go for the second option with the NEW 20D I would have enough pixels if I just take a panoramic with one shot .. and would have more than enough if I take a panoramic  stitching to frames...

and i would not have to spend 3000 USD on a new camera plus the zoom 600mm we are talking big money... ( and for me it i

do you think I should wait for the NEW 20D? is it worth just upgrading from the 10D to the actual 20D for the  1 or 2 extra inches ?

please correct me if I am wrong !!!  I really don't know much about photography and what would it be best for me ..

thanks
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davidr805
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2005, 01:59:16 PM »
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Hi Jonathan,

I would happily post some landscape pictures taken at 300mm on a canon 10D so you can se what I mean by landscape ( It would be like Zoom landscape)

the thing is that I do them at 300mm with my canon 10D and sometime I need more zoom .. I was planing on buying the 100-400mm from canon ... a 400 mm on a 10D is like 600mm + / -

the same picture different focal length ..

http://www.photozo.com/album....&page=1

http://www.photozo.com/album....&page=1
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davidr805
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2005, 07:15:06 PM »
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Thanks for your Input pom.

What is TBH?  

I like big prints  24 x 36" and up .. an some times I think the 10D is not enough ... do you think is the lens ? and not the camera?
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2005, 10:40:47 AM »
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TBH = "To Be Honest"

And I agree with BOTH Pom and Jonathan even though it seems like a contradiction...  

1) For acceptably DETAILED 24x36 prints you need more than 8MP.

2) For the kind of shots you are talking about with even the best L ZOOMS, you are probably NOT going to see much improvement between cropped 6.3 and 8 MP, or full-frame 11MP and 16MP.  

3) BUT, stitching two frames together will help both causes;  whether or not the help will signifcant to the final PRINT is questionable...

Cheers,
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howard smith
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2005, 10:51:56 AM »
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I just bought a 20D.  Therefore, a huge price reduction and/or new model is right around the corner.
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2005, 01:45:22 PM »
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I just bought a 20D. Therefore, a huge price reduction and/or new model is right around the corner.
LMAO!

That's me too Howard, so you are not alone!

 :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:
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Andrew Larkin
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2005, 03:59:10 AM »
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I recently bought the Manfrotto 303SPH head and have been using this to produce some stunning stitches with my 10D.  My recent favourite is a 20-frame stitch (10x2) which nets out at 113 megapixels and covers about 140 degrees field of view with close to 90 degrees vertically.

Having said this, I have also just paid for my 5D as I am continually irritated by the slow shot rate of the 10D in raw mode with the panos - I have to get all the shots off quickly before the light changes and the 17-raw-frame buffer is going to get a serious work out!  I am also looking for the full frame sensor to give me an even wider field of view so I need to less shots to capture the scene.

I may have the 5D in my hands by the end of the month...

Andrew
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jd1566
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2005, 07:13:04 AM »
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One thing I am grappling with is the actual size of the 5D sensor. Perhaps someone can help.. My understanding is that the 13.3mp are the pixels on the chip, which measures 35. something x 23.something (i.e marginally smaller than a 35mm frame).  Now if those 13.3mp are only 12.8mp effective.. then the image capture area is smaller than the stated size of the sensor.. which gives a crop factor of 10% or thereabouts.. Is this so, or am I looking at the numbers upside down? It intrests me because my 17-40 will only be an 18.5-44 or thereabouts.. Not much difference you say?  True, but when you need wide angle you want as much as you can get.  Someone please shed light on the capture area of the sensor please...
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B&W photographer - Still lifes, Portraits, Urban scenes, Landscapes, Abstract images.
Jonathan Wienke
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2005, 11:29:49 AM »
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The capture area corresponds with the effective pixel area. The additional pixels are masked off under the edges of the chip and are used for monitoring dark-frame current leakage tracking and stuff like that. You get full-frame coverage minus the half-mm or so.
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