Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Camera Raw Sharpening and a 1Ds Mark-III / 5D  (Read 13243 times)
Marlyn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 253


« on: April 21, 2008, 07:36:56 PM »
ReplyReply

In a document on Canon's website, it describes the recomended starting point for sharpening files for a 1DS III  (when shooting Raw).  Unfortunatly, it lists PS Unsharp Mask,  so does anyone know how these settings would translate to the sliders in Camera Raw ?

From the document "EOS1D_1DsMark_IIIoptimizingAFsettings_Final.pdf" from canon's USA site.
Quote
• RAW shooters are advised to apply sharpening in the computer (Photoshop’s Unsharp Mask command, or similar processes)
• Low ISO initial Unsharp Mask suggestion — Amount 250%, Radius 0.3~0.5 pixels, Threshold 1
• High ISO initial Unsharp Mask suggestion — Amount 250%, Radius 0.3 pixels, Threshold 4~5

What I need is,  
 Amount, Radius, Detail, Masking - as they apply in CR.

There is an entire discussion elsewhere on this Board about NR and Sharpening high ISO G9.   Does anyone have any similar recomended 'standard' settings for a 5D and Mk III ?.
I am aware all digital files need capture sharpening, (especially to counter the AA filter) and till now I have used Photokit in CS3.  However after going through the book "RWCR" and the Video, I'd like to do it in Camera Raw.

My Intention here is to get the best 'Baseline' out of the camera's, then season to taste, but I'm struggling to find the initial baseline. (In any kind of scientific manner).

All thoughts appreciated.

Regards

Mark.
Logged
Josh-H
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1911



WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2008, 08:43:01 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
In a document on Canon's website, it describes the recomended starting point for sharpening files for a 1DS III  (when shooting Raw).  Unfortunatly, it lists PS Unsharp Mask,  so does anyone know how these settings would translate to the sliders in Camera Raw ?

From the document "EOS1D_1DsMark_IIIoptimizingAFsettings_Final.pdf" from canon's USA site.
What I need is, 
 Amount, Radius, Detail, Masking - as they apply in CR.

There is an entire discussion elsewhere on this Board about NR and Sharpening high ISO G9.   Does anyone have any similar recomended 'standard' settings for a 5D and Mk III ?.
I am aware all digital files need capture sharpening, (especially to counter the AA filter) and till now I have used Photokit in CS3.  However after going through the book "RWCR" and the Video, I'd like to do it in Camera Raw.

My Intention here is to get the best 'Baseline' out of the camera's, then season to taste, but I'm struggling to find the initial baseline. (In any kind of scientific manner).

All thoughts appreciated.

Regards

Mark.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191099\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark,

I asked the same question some time ago - but in relation to Lightroom - so virtually identical issue as the sliders are pretty much on parity these days. I got no answer.

So I did some experimenting and what I found was that in Lightroom the best overal general holistic settings for the 1DS MKIII for sharpening were amount 80 Radius 1 detail 30. There was nothing scientific about my testing -  just what looked good to my eye. The look I was after being just capture sharpening restoring the softness introduced by the AA filter. And I stress these are a very general setting that seems to work ok on a lot of images.

Generally I like to tweak my final images to taste and usually add some masking as well.

Hope this helps.
Logged

Marlyn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 253


« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2008, 05:35:00 PM »
ReplyReply

Thanks Josh,  I'll have a play with those settings.  

This is probably a question for the likes of Mr Schewe when he has a min, or someone equally familiar with the guts of the Camera Raw sharpening sliders.

Sharpening is one area of image adjustment I have great difficulty doing by 'eye'. I've watched things like C-2-P and the like many times, and tried it, and I'm just not seeing the subtle changes Jeff and Michael speak about, especially for creative sharpening down the track.  Photokit is a godsend for that, just hit the button for output type.

Whilst I agree that its subjective (to some), I still think there would be a scientific good 'baseline' sharpening for each camera (based on sensor/AA etc), similar to camera colour calibration.  

Time for some more research.

Mark
Logged
Josh-H
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1911



WWW
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2008, 07:01:07 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Thanks Josh,  I'll have a play with those settings. 

This is probably a question for the likes of Mr Schewe when he has a min, or someone equally familiar with the guts of the Camera Raw sharpening sliders.

Sharpening is one area of image adjustment I have great difficulty doing by 'eye'. I've watched things like C-2-P and the like many times, and tried it, and I'm just not seeing the subtle changes Jeff and Michael speak about, especially for creative sharpening down the track.  Photokit is a godsend for that, just hit the button for output type.

Whilst I agree that its subjective (to some), I still think there would be a scientific good 'baseline' sharpening for each camera (based on sensor/AA etc), similar to camera colour calibration.   

Time for some more research.

Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191490\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Agreed.

What I also do as I used to find adjusting by eye difficult is I do a compare when sharpening in Lightroom [C] is the shortcut key. This lets me sharpen the image whilst comparing it to the original next to it. VERY easy to see subtle changes this way.
Logged

Geoff Wittig
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1017


« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2008, 06:46:42 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Thanks Josh,  I'll have a play with those settings. 

This is probably a question for the likes of Mr Schewe when he has a min, or someone equally familiar with the guts of the Camera Raw sharpening sliders.

Sharpening is one area of image adjustment I have great difficulty doing by 'eye'. I've watched things like C-2-P and the like many times, and tried it, and I'm just not seeing the subtle changes Jeff and Michael speak about, especially for creative sharpening down the track.  Photokit is a godsend for that, just hit the button for output type.

Whilst I agree that its subjective (to some), I still think there would be a scientific good 'baseline' sharpening for each camera (based on sensor/AA etc), similar to camera colour calibration.   

Time for some more research.

Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191490\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For what it's worth-
I've struggled with the same issues. It really seems like there's no accurate way for the computer monitor to "proof" what sharpening will look like in the final print. Part of the problem is that it's so image-dependent; the final sharpening that looks best for a detailed forest scene is very different from what looks best for a smooth face. The other issue is simply that the dithering and resolution of computer monitors and inkjet printers are on different "wavelengths" so to speak.

I attended the digital printing course taught last October at Michael's Toronto gallery by Bill Atkinson and Charlie Cramer. Their suggested method was to print a series of "test strips" of a small portion of the image at the full final print size, applying different degrees of sharpness until you found the one that really worked for that image. You could probably then extrapolate those unsharp mask settings, but only to very similar images at the same final print size on the same paper using the same printer. And once you find the optimal sharpening regimen for a particular image and print size, it makes sense to save a sharpened copy labeled at that size so you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

When it comes to the sharpening settings in Camera Raw, the new Camera Raw video from Michael & Jeff Schewe includes a very worthwhile discussion of what's really going on "under the hood", with recommended settings for the sliders depending on image content. I actually tend to be a lot more "gentle", and only apply a small amount (like, 25-40%) in ACR because I don't want any halos showing up later if I end up making a 24x36" print. You can always sharpen more later, but you can't "sharpen less".
Logged
Mark D Segal
Contributor
Sr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7044


WWW
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2008, 04:33:21 PM »
ReplyReply

If you are doing it in Camera Raw and you then open the image from Camera Raw into Photoshop as a Smart Object you can indeed conveniently go back in and change the settings. But I don't sharpen in Camera Raw. I do all this with PK Sharpener in Photoshop because it's easier and from experience using it I know how to manage it. That's probably the key for judging what's correct doing the Capture Sharpening in Camera Raw too - just experimenting with various settings on various images, printing them, evaluating them and using those results for creating your own guidelines of how much to use in what conditions.
Logged

Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
BFoto
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 241



WWW
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2008, 11:52:58 PM »
ReplyReply

5D

I have found the following in LR.

Capture sharpening Low ISO
Portrait
Amount 50 - 80
Radius 1.0
Detail 40 - 60
Masking - play with it

Capture sharpening Low ISO
Landscape
Amount 60 - 100
Radius 0.8 - 1.0
Detail 80
Masking - minimal

I will say though, i really don't think that you should set in stone what every image should have. Some images look better crunchy (Even portraits), some softer.

Given that, at this time!, LR 2.0 does not have creative sharpening, one can play around a bit with the current details sliders for an added punch.

Also, don't forget the Clarity slider. Applies midtone contrast, and combined with the sharpening tools produces nice results.

brad
Logged

sojournerphoto
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 473


« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 06:34:04 AM »
ReplyReply

Out on a limb here, but my current basic settings for the 5D and 1Ds3 in LR are:

5D - Amount 40, radius 0.8, detail 50, masking 0 to about 40 depending on image content and iso.

1Ds3 - Amount 50, radius 0.5, detail 50 (up to 70 or 80 sometimes), masking 0 to about 40 again depending on image content and iso.

GX100 - amount 50ish, radius 1, detail 50 to 70, masking 0 to 40

I'm open to increasing these to extract more detail, but I prefer to have minimal halos at this stage as they can really mess up bigger prints. Also, I don't use much nr on the dslrs.

I would be interested in everyone's view on what achieves what.

Mike
Logged
Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad