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Author Topic: New Epson Printers  (Read 125842 times)
pprachun
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« on: April 28, 2008, 03:43:12 PM »
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For those of you wondering why the discounts on the present Epson 7880 & 9880 printers -- the new 7900 & 9900!  'bout bloody time I say.

http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=1329
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Paul Prachun
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 04:34:25 PM »
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And the million dollar question is are both blacks finally online together?

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For those of you wondering why the discounts on the present Epson 7880 & 9880 printers -- the new 7900 & 9900!  'bout bloody time I say.

http://www.dimagemaker.com/article.php?articleID=1329
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=192353\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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sesshin
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 06:01:51 PM »
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I'm assuming this is the trickle down technology from the 11880? Wish there was more information. Guess we have to wait.
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 08:33:49 PM »
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I'm assuming this is the trickle down technology from the 11880? Wish there was more information. Guess we have to wait.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=192377\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If this is accurate it appears they are doing more than just trickling down the 11880 technology (although I'm sure that's also a part of it), since the 11880 is only 9 inks.

At least with 10 inks they should finally be able to end the PK/MK issue. (at least for 24" and larger printers").
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Steve Gordon
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« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 11:53:57 PM »
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Damn, they removed the article, what did it say?
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Jon Shiu
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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2008, 12:20:47 AM »
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Damn, they removed the article, what did it say?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=192411\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It said they will be announced at DRUPA, whatever that is.

Jon
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ericstaud
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2008, 12:30:37 AM »
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Well, in the mean time, how about a musical interlude?  Here is the 2008 official Drupa theme song:

http://www.messe-duesseldorf.de/drupa08/media/drupa_2008.mp3
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Osequis
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2008, 01:16:51 AM »
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Well, in the mean time, how about a musical interlude?  Here is the 2008 official Drupa theme song:

http://www.messe-duesseldorf.de/drupa08/media/drupa_2008.mp3
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=192413\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Man!... from now on, that's my new ringtone  
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Marlyn
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2008, 01:45:09 AM »
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Drupa is 29 May to 11 June, 2008 in Germany.
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keith_cooper
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2008, 03:03:02 AM »
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Damn, they removed the article, what did it say?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
FWIW I'm keeping track of this one, on one of my 'rumours' pages, although with the info pulled down it seems to have a firmer status ;-)
[a href=\"http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/printers/epson9900-7900.html]Epson 9900/7900 info[/url]
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jmboss
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« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2008, 03:39:33 AM »
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It would be wonderful to hear rumor of a new 10 ink Epson 4900 printer, but I guess we will all have wait even still longer for that one.

Joe
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2008, 04:41:01 AM »
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FWIW I'm keeping track of this one, on one of my 'rumours' pages, although with the info pulled down it seems to have a firmer status ;-)
Epson 9900/7900 info
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Keith,


You suggested a gloss enhancer as the channel to round off to ten but there's also the possibility that the two cyans are replaced by one and the two channels left then become red and green or blue. There once was a Canon inkjet with two yellows. It remains a guess what set of inks we will see in the end. Gloss enhancer like the Z3100 already has is the most likely candidate as it really makes a difference and it wouldn't stir up any color management in the Epson environment.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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deanwork
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« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2008, 07:39:17 PM »
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Come on! They don't have any choice. Epson has drug their feet for years and years and if they don't have instant MK to PK switching now they might as well get out of the business altogether.  They'll probably copy HP and offer a glop too and advertise that it is their idea. The other BIG thing that they will do is dump those brown grey channels and Finally offer a neutral black and greys. I know from working with the Z that it makes all the difference in the world ( unless you like loading up your monochrome inks with cyan and fighting neutrality and color crossover in the highlights).

john




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And the million dollar question is are both blacks finally online together?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=192360\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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alfin
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« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2008, 05:07:15 AM »
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They'll probably copy HP and offer a glop too and advertise that it is their idea.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=192573\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, isnít it Epsonís idea then? I thought Epson had a gloss enhancer cartridge on the R800 already four years ago, long before any HP Iím aware of. But I could be wrong.
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NikosR
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« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2008, 06:30:22 AM »
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Well, isnít it Epsonís idea then? I thought Epson had a gloss enhancer cartridge on the R800 already four years ago, long before any HP Iím aware of. But I could be wrong.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=192645\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Quite right. That and the R1800. Somehow Epson thought that it was not a good idea for pro printers.

BTW, those printers used blue and red primaries ink also. I believe Epson still thinks that is not a good idea (and they might well be right).
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Nikos
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2008, 07:54:56 PM »
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I'd like to see a replacement for the Epson 3800 as I'm outgrowing my R2400.

Bud

http://www.budjamesphotography.com
« Last Edit: April 30, 2008, 07:55:22 PM by budjames » Logged

Bud James
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neil snape
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« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2008, 01:39:33 AM »
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Quite right. That and the R1800. Somehow Epson thought that it was not a good idea for pro printers.

BTW, those printers used blue and red primaries ink also. I believe Epson still thinks that is not a good idea (and they might well be right).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=192650\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If they really thought that way then pro printers using Epson are simply missing out on what is a great thing. It works well on the R1800 and now the 1900, and works very well on the Z printers up to 44". The method is different, and the Z has different needs, but the Z also does it in a way that is destined for pro prints for display.
The Epson has a very good gamut all around, and touches areas in the shadows that both HP and Canon cannot. Yet both Canon and HP touch light saturated colours better and farther out than any Epson do with the 8/9 ink systems. HP chose a foliage light green that is wonderful for landscapes. Canon chose a super red gamut that is great for city scape scenes. In that aspect both HP and Canon have colours that just cannot be achieved by the current Epson inksets.
Anyone who is serious has to avoid total belief in marketing from any of the companies, and read into the truths here or other forums.
The playing field is open now , and there is room for all three for prints for sale, gallery, artwork, poster etc. All are good, any one can be a targeted intelligent purchase with the right needs/ compromises made with pre-sales info. The OP made a good choice based on his needs, experiences, not on marketing stuff like "we don't need extra colours" which will be worn thin soon enough.
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Scott Martin
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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2008, 09:21:56 AM »
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The Epson has a very good gamut all around, and touches areas in the shadows that both HP and Canon cannot. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=192827\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
With what profiles? I haven't quite found that to be true. I have found the Canon's to be a champ in the shadows and the Z series to be the clear loser in this area.

Here's a test for everyone. Start with a good evaluation image with a granger rainbow, solid color ramps, skin tones, low key imagery and preferably a fall colors shot. Make a set of evaluation prints made both with RelCol and Perceptual using each manufacturer's profiles on the same paper on each printer. Then profile all three brand of printers with the same profiling technology (which necessary for a fair comparison of the inksets). And then make another set of prints on each printer using the same paper with both RelCol and Perceptual.

You'll notice that the RelCol prints show you exactly what the gamut plots indicate. But the Perceptual prints are a different story. If you use ColorVision, PMP Logo Colorful or MP sat+50 profiles you'll see considerably more apparent saturation in the granger rainbow and solid color patches (like R=0 G=255 B=0). You may also notice that the Peceptual prints may *directly contradict* what the gamut plots suggest. The gamut plot may suggest that Epson has the green advantage for example but 10 out of 10 photographers will agree (and I have done such a blind test) that Canon's produce the more desirable and visually saturated green when printed with perceptual using profiles made from the above applications.

I have found Canon to have the advantage for deep greens and blues over the other brands when printed this way. I have also found dark, fall colors photos show more saturation and detail  on Canon's when printed in this way. Canon's reds were the best of the three before Epson's K3+vm inkset came out, and Epson's deep magenta and reds are now superior.

I also think its revealing to print a nozzle check and compare each of the inks by themselves. HP's red for example is a joke - a pale orange. Canon's RGB primary inks along with smarter driver ink mixing and on-board 12 bit handling are doing more to expand the gamut and smooth out granger rainbows. Epson's inkset, on the other hand, does quite an impressive job considering the lack of additive primary inks. Epson's high gloss inksets that do have additive primary inks clearly show impressive gains due to those inks so it would be fun to see Epson match HP and Canon's lead in the large format arena.

I totally agree that each inkset is uniquely capable of hitting different gamut areas. Saying that one inkset results in a larger gamut than another inkset would be an (all too common) oversimplification. I would strongly encourage anyone to perform the test mentioned above and weigh the visual results above any misleading gamut plots or anything else when making decisions about what printer to buy. As Neal said, ignore the marketing, forum and expert's hype (all three are typically biased) and do your own tests.
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neil snape
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« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2008, 10:07:10 AM »
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On all the profiles (Bill Atkinson profiles, APS Z frm V5, Canon 5000 profiles given to me)  I looked at in the bottom end of the L*a*b* locust Epson had more colour information in the lowest ranges of the L* levels. Does the newer x100 Canon inkset have more in the shadows than the older inkset? Both HP and Canon fall back rapidly to a neutral in the deep shadows due to in most part GCR.
In any subjective tests what viewers see as better than the other often surprises me. What I look for in bright greens is realism, not flash.

I have done many lab tests on subjective tests on all three printers but not having all three , nor having the chance to print out with the same care I would have used, as you you do could have a disadvantage to it, such as if the person printing used 16 bit on the Canon or not.

Bill Atkinson's test image has some green fern areas that tell a lot about what all three can do. Objectively one can map these colours, subjectively will be up to the viewer to decide their preferences. Since no analogue printers ever printed these colours before, who knows what is "right", yet for me realism is what I think is best.
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neil snape
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« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2008, 10:27:28 AM »
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I also think its revealing to print a nozzle check and compare each of the inks by themselves. HP's red for example is a joke - a pale orange.

 Canon's RGB primary inks along with smarter driver ink mixing and on-board 12 bit handling are doing more to expand the gamut and smooth out granger rainbows. Epson's inkset, on the other hand, does quite an impressive job considering the lack of additive primary inks. Epson's high gloss inksets that do have additive primary inks clearly show impressive gains due to those inks so it would be fun to see Epson match HP and Canon's lead in the large format arena.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=192886\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



Well perhaps HP should have called the inks for what they are. I believe marketing , one time again, changed the eng, and science dept. correctly named Orange, Violet, Green.

So rightly so the Red is Orange. It is not a flou orange either.

Profiles go a long way in smoothing out Granger rainbows. Since you have Monaco, other than Argyll, that is the best you can get. The colour maps of the printer should be as linear as possible. Canon uses 2 extra bits in the plug in to it's advantage for the extended inkset. Epson do not need 12 bit processing at this point. HAs anyone seen a difference with the new 16 bit drivers on the 11880 between 8>16 bit?
HP could do better with colour maps, and or a user customizable mapping, also  with a higher bit screening as Canon do.
In theory now that Vista and 10.5 are out the plug-in (rip) approach are no longer needed as they can process images at high bit at OS level, including screening.
When I tested it ImagePrint had better control on the Granger rainbows than the HP drivers. I have no idea if they finished IP for HP but hope they did.
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