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Author Topic: Cathy's Profiles  (Read 7717 times)
idenford
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« on: May 02, 2008, 05:32:58 PM »
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I paid the bucks and sent off three profiles to Cathy.
My Ilford Gold Fibre Silk prints on my new Epson 3800 are coming out too dark.
My monitor is calibrated, and so a friend suggested I look into Cathy's profiles.
Anyone else have success with her profiles?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 05:33:13 PM by idenford » Logged
Scott Martin
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2008, 08:29:31 PM »
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Could your monitor just be too bright? Or your lighting too dim? When you compare the white's onscreen to a white piece of paper do they match in terms of luminance and color?
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Chris_Brown
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2008, 08:36:53 PM »
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I've had great success with Cathy's profiles. No problems here. I've had about 10 papers profiled by her, matte and coated, from a variety of manufacturers. My print results were not dark at all.
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idenford
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2008, 09:08:34 PM »
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I've had great success with Cathy's profiles. No problems here. I've had about 10 papers profiled by her, matte and coated, from a variety of manufacturers. My print results were not dark at all.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193232\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm looking forward to the three profiles I purchased to see if I get closer to what I see on the screen.
When I print on matte paper, I get an image that is closer to what I see on the monitor, But I decided to include it as well in the three I purchased.
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abiggs
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2008, 12:55:42 PM »
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I often hear of the perception of a luster or gloss paper being too dark, but not cotton or matte papers. I suspect, as Scott asked above, that your ambient lighting is too minimal or your monitor is dialed up too bright.
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Andy Biggs
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rdonson
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2008, 03:55:34 PM »
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I paid the bucks and sent off three profiles to Cathy.
My Ilford Gold Fibre Silk prints on my new Epson 3800 are coming out too dark.
My monitor is calibrated, and so a friend suggested I look into Cathy's profiles.
Anyone else have success with her profiles?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193204\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Are you softproofing and adjusting the images accordingly or just simply printing with application managed color and the profiles?  You really haven't described your print workflow.
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Regards,
Ron
duraace
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2008, 04:57:16 PM »
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What software and platform are you using? What 3800 driver? With a profiled monitor, you should be getting close to on screen output on the 3800.
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neil snape
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2008, 01:53:12 AM »
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From Steve Upton, Chromix.com;
>I am new to this list but not to color management.  My apologies if I breach some protocol.  I have been very successful with making paper profiles with an i1 spectrophotometer for my Epson 7600.  It has done as advertised- reduced my tests/wastage and calibrated several studio monitors regularly.  All of my current profiles were built from and for a system 10.4(+) Mac.  I bought a new 8-processor (system 10.5 + current updates) Intel Mac and imported the paper profiles from the 10.4 machine and they produce prints with darker shadow areas (blocked-up, really) when I print with the same profiles but from the new machine.  Mid-tones and highlights are close but the shadows and blacks seem stretched down too dark and the print is correspondingly more contrasty.  In concept the promise of a calibrated, closed-loop workflow like i am describing should have consistent results from the same profile.  Unless the printer driver (or the OS?) has changed the way it uses the profile. The prospect of creating multiple profiles for each paper/printer combo to suit each workstation becomes an impractical time-eater.  Does anyone have any insight or similar experience?

we've seen this occurring with some of our ColorValet customers.

Open the ColorSync Utility and find your printer under 'Devices'. Set 'Generic RGB' for the profile for your printer. Make sure you set it for the particular paper type you are profiling (and selecting in the print driver when you print).

Also, set the printer as the default printer in Leopard's printer setup tool.

THEN try printing your target, it should work OK.

A good way to confirm the problem (and the fix) is plot the measurements in ColorThink (if you are a user) and plot the Generic RGB profile along with it. If you see all the measurements are inside the Generic RGB gamut then you are seeing the problem... When you successfully turn off color management the colors will appear well outside the gRGB gamut.

If you are not certain, feel free to send me the measurement file offline and I'll take a look.

Kudos to our color tech Pat Herold for figuring this one out.



Maybe the problem lies there?
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idenford
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2008, 07:12:51 AM »
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Are you softproofing and adjusting the images accordingly or just simply printing with application managed color and the profiles?  You really haven't described your print workflow.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193339\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am printing from Lightroom. I choose the profile, choose perceptual as the rendering intent, go into the print setting menu and for the gold silk fibre I choose premium semi gloss as suggested by Ilford.
i have downloaded the  drivers from Ilford and installed them properly.
I re calibrated my monitor so all is well there
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rdonson
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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2008, 08:01:57 AM »
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I am printing from Lightroom. I choose the profile, choose perceptual as the rendering intent, go into the print setting menu and for the gold silk fibre I choose premium semi gloss as suggested by Ilford.
i have downloaded the  drivers from Ilford and installed them properly.
I re calibrated my monitor so all is well there
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Lightroom has some nifty print features but softproofing isn't one of them.  You won't be able to see a representation of what the print will actually look like.  In other words you're printing blind.  This style of printing usually works best with a glossy paper with a wide gamut.

If you're not aware of softproofing check out Andrew Rodney's tutorial [a href=\"https://admin.adobe.acrobat.com/_a227210/p84783897/]here.[/url]
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Ron
idenford
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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2008, 08:23:41 AM »
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Lightroom has some nifty print features but softproofing isn't one of them.  You won't be able to see a representation of what the print will actually look like.  In other words you're printing blind.  This style of printing usually works best with a glossy paper with a wide gamut.

If you're not aware of softproofing check out Andrew Rodney's tutorial here.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193426\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes I know that is a problem with Lightroom. I was mostly printing matte or glossy paper, then I got rid of my 2400 and got a 3800 so I could do fine art printing. So . . .  now I need to include soft proofing and also re look at the printing tutorial I purchased, and check out the link you just sent me, so thanks for that. A friend suggested Cathy's profiles as well, couldn't hurt eh?
Thanks for the feedback I do appreciate it.
Iden
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Nill Toulme
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2008, 08:56:53 AM »
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...I re calibrated my monitor so all is well there
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193422\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
At what luminance level?

Nill
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rdonson
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2008, 02:59:50 PM »
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A friend suggested Cathy's profiles as well, couldn't hurt eh?
Thanks for the feedback I do appreciate it.
Iden
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Cathy has a pretty good reputation so it definitely won't hurt.

If you're on the learning curve you might want to also check out the video, From Camera to Print, by Michael Reichmann and Jeff Schewe at the L-L store [a href=\"http://www.luminous-landscape.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=164]here.[/url]
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Ron
idenford
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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2008, 05:01:09 PM »
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Cathy has a pretty good reputation so it definitely won't hurt.

If you're on the learning curve you might want to also check out the video, From Camera to Print, by Michael Reichmann and Jeff Schewe at the L-L store here.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193468\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have it already and am reviewing it. I spent the afternoon looking at the Adobe video mentioned and changed some settings in photoshop as well as soft proofed a photo.
The bottom line is that I now own an Epson 3800 and am attempting to print on papers other than glossy and matte. I stricty use Premier papers but I thought to try the Ilford gold fibre silk which was so highly recommended here.
I have probably wasted about five sheets of it so far, that's why I went to Cathy to see if she could help.
The problem seems to be in the shadows on the Ilford paper.
However I did make two excellent black and white prints which led me to believe that it was a paper more suited to black and white prints.
I will await Cathy's profile.
I will do more soft proofing now,
but in the end, a big why oh why does Lightroom not offer a soft proofing module??
 A serious fly in the ointment imo.
Perhaps the new 2.0 will? Does anyone know??
« Last Edit: May 04, 2008, 05:01:50 PM by idenford » Logged
digitaldog
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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2008, 05:58:17 PM »
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Perhaps the new 2.0 will? Does anyone know??
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193479\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nope, no soft proofing this time around.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2008, 05:58:42 PM by digitaldog » Logged

Andrew Rodney
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rdonson
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2008, 07:33:49 PM »
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I will do more soft proofing now, but in the end, a big why oh why does Lightroom not offer a soft proofing module??
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193479\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I suspect that given the colorspace choices they made in Lightroom that softproofing may be tougher to accomplish than we expect.  They may also want to do it in a way that reflects some of the other concepts in Lightroom which would be a departure from the way we do it in Photoshop.  Just speculating though.  Whenever they do deliver it I hope they do a great job with it.
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Regards,
Ron
Mark D Segal
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2008, 06:57:33 PM »
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I paid the bucks and sent off three profiles to Cathy.
My Ilford Gold Fibre Silk prints on my new Epson 3800 are coming out too dark.
My monitor is calibrated, and so a friend suggested I look into Cathy's profiles.
Anyone else have success with her profiles?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193204\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I recommend that you start with Ilford"s latest profile for GFS (dated February 2008), export your images from Lightroom to Photoshop, make your final luminosity edits with Curves while in Softproof mode, and at the same time verify the on-display appearance you get from varying the Rendering Intent between the four options provided. RI can make a substantial difference, depending on the imahe characteristics and the effect you are trying to replicate. You may find this solves your problem. A custom profile, properly made, may also exhibit small differences in results relative to the Ilford profile. As you've already ordered it, of course test it - but doing the same things I've just recommended.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
Author: "Scanning Workflows with SilverFast 8....." http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/film/scanning_workflows_with_silverfast_8.shtml
Nill Toulme
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2008, 08:00:54 PM »
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You still haven't told us what luminance value you have your monitor set to.  If your monitor is too bright, all the profiling and soft-proofing in the world won't keep your prints from coming out too dark in comparison.

Nill
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www.toulme.net
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Mark D Segal
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2008, 08:36:08 PM »
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You still haven't told us what luminance value you have your monitor set to.  If your monitor is too bright, all the profiling and soft-proofing in the world won't keep your prints from coming out too dark in comparison.

Nill
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www.toulme.net
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193691\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Absolutely - I forgot to mention that point. I would recommend a value in the range of 100~120 cd, but it varies according to the display conditions and to some extent the paper being simulated.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Nill Toulme
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2008, 08:48:37 PM »
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I've worked my way down to 90 cd/m˛ on mine.

Nill
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