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Author Topic: LEAF: Here's what needs to improve on the AFi  (Read 10659 times)
thsinar
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« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2008, 08:59:50 AM »
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Yes, this issue is solved with the latest firmware: it did not happen with all non-AFD lenses, only the ones with the maximum aperture not corresponding to a full f-stop (e.g. 3.5)

Thierry

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I would guess this issue will be resolved in a firmware update from Leaf.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
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Thierry Hagenauer
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BJNY
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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2008, 09:00:57 AM »
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I noticed on a quick handling of the camera that the 45 finder does not easily let one see the shooting data above the image- probably because it is a retrofit from the 6000 series.

Hopefully, the upcoming 90 finder (high-eyepoint design) shows the LCD readout better.
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Guillermo
Rune Werner Molnes
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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2008, 09:01:22 AM »
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Yes, Rune.  I can see there's more clearance with the Sinarback,
(and can imagine your crowbar comment with the 180mm lens attached)
but Leaf has a notch cut-out as well

[attachment=6439:attachment]
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Yes, but the notch does not give sufficient clearance.

It's not a very big problem, it only means that there are limits to how you can carry the camera by the neckstrap. E.g. you always have to have one or two hands on the camera to balance it so that the whole weight is not shifted to the DB.

However, if you should try to run around with the camera over your shoulder and a 180mm attached, I would not be surprised if the whole DB would be forced off the camera..
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Rune Werner Molnes
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2008, 09:06:32 AM »
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Yes, this issue is solved with the latest firmware: it did not happen with all non-AFD lenses, only the ones with the maximum aperture not corresponding to a full f-stop (e.g. 3.5)

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193798\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I currently have this problem with my (excellent) Schneider 40mm f/3.5, so that seems to be correct, yes.
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BJNY
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« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2008, 09:20:50 AM »
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I see you didn't seem to mind the fan in the back blowing gently in your face as someone else commented on.

The fan may be responsible for perhaps the best live-video of any digital back
for those who use this feature.
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Guillermo
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« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2008, 09:21:57 AM »
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Extraordinary interesting and useful insights, Rune. I'm considering the purchase of this camera or the Sinar version. Two questions:

1. Have you tried the 90 viewfinder?

2. Have you used the Leaf with film or just with digital?

Thanks,

Carlos
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BJNY
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« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2008, 09:24:20 AM »
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Neither the 90 finder or 6x6 film magazine is available today, but probably "soon".
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 09:35:03 AM by BJNY » Logged

Guillermo
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« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2008, 09:35:17 AM »
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I think the 6 x 4.5 film magazine is already available for the Sinar but not yet for the Leaf, but I suposse it is the same for both cameras (or not?). Here in Spain the distrubutor for Leaf, Sinar and Rollei is also the same (Ingrafic). I've been talkin' with a sales person last week about the camera and the strange thing is that he couldn't tell me if the Rolleiflex version of the Hy6 would be available any time soon. Could it be this true or it's just they are interested in selling the Leaf and the Sinar?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 09:36:23 AM by Ignatz_Mouse » Logged
BJNY
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« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2008, 09:40:21 AM »
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kurlandphoto in NYC has been listing/selling the Rollei Hy6 for the past several months on eBay.
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Guillermo
thsinar
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« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2008, 09:53:19 AM »
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yes, the 6 x 4.5 film magazine is available, together with its Hy6 adapter.

Thierry

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I think the 6 x 4.5 film magazine is already available for the Sinar.
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2008, 09:58:53 AM »
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The interesting thing about this project is that while the base camera is generally  the same, the AFi and Hy6 may evolve to contain differences, some hardware, but mostly firmware. Firmware updates will come separately - my Sinar 2.09 updater does not update our Leaf AFi unit. There are already some functional differences between the "solutions" and it appears that will continue.

Would you elaborate?
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Guillermo
James R Russell
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« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2008, 10:33:26 AM »
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The interesting thing about this project is that while the base camera is generally  the same, the AFi and Hy6 may evolve to contain differences, some hardware, but mostly firmware. Firmware updates will come separately - my Sinar 2.09 updater does not update our Leaf AFi unit. There are already some functional differences between the "solutions" and it appears that will continue.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193796\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


To me this is is where this all falls down where the back is proprietary to the camera.

Let's say I decide to sell time shares on my Gulfstream and purchase an HY6 with a Sinar back.  

Then lease the top floor of my Malibu home to Cher to afford 5 or 6 lenses and for some reason I just don't like the way the Sinar works.

Does that mean I have to sell the Sinar back and the body and switch to a leaf branded back and body?

The thought of this almost makes me want to go back to a Canon 1ds.

Personally I think it's overcomplicated that any back has any specific mount, but at least if I decided tomorrow that I wanted to put my Phase backs on a Mamiya or an H series, it would just be a few grand to replace the mount and would keep Cher happy because I wouldn't have to double her rent.

That may not be best case scenario but at least it's doable without firmware upgrades and I assume the functionality I have now with the Contax and the back would not change if I go to another camera platform.

Consequently if I wanted to put a Sinar or Leaf back on my Contax I assume the only thing I need to do is write a check and wait for delivery.

Like it or not Leaf and Sinar are with this camera joined at the hip and not that I expect them to offer joint press releases, I do think that at least F+H should keep a running chart of what works with what, if only for rental and backup information.

I'm all for innovatin and moving forward, but I also know that this needs to get less complicated, not more and there is something to be said about picking the camera and lenses first, the back second, or better still buying a back and putting it on any camera I chose.

JR


P.S.  don't take these comments as a condemnation of the HY6.  I think it's a great idea though I also think as a new system it should come out of the box ready to rumble with full lenses, finders, and not a lot of firmware updates to fix this or that.

In fact the only thing that would move me from the contax's is a camera that had a rotatable back and fast lenses, but not if the camera (or back for that matter) is only specific to one system.

I've gone through the learning curve of Kodak, Fuji, Canon, Nikon, Leaf and Phase and some of it has been more than rewarding, some of it has been hell, but overall digital capture has to settle down to the point we pick up a camera, turn it on and take a picture, without worrying about james, firmware updates and file compatibility.

Regardless of price, it has to be a buy it, use it, painless process.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 10:46:14 AM by James R Russell » Logged

thsinar
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« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2008, 10:58:43 AM »
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James, no, the device is switched off.

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Does that mean I have to sell the Sinar back and the body and switch to a leaf branded back and body?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not at all: it has been communicated since the begining that Leaf backs (at least those fitting the AFi) shall work on a Sinar Hy6 body and Sinarbacks can be used on a Leaf AFi body. Nothing has changed here. But I would like to hope that you would like the Sinarback, instead!

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Then lease the top floor of my Malibu home to Cher to afford 5 or 6 lenses ...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Why always suggesting that those lenses are so expensive? I have published the recommended market prices for the new AFD lenses (from Euro 1'900.- for the Schneider AFD Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS  to Euro 4'550.- for the Schneider AFD Variogon 4.6/60-140 PQS) and they are in the price class of some other good lenses.
Beside this, I have published a list indicating more than 40 lenses fitting the Hy6 body, most of them can be found as second-hand at very low prices.

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Personally I think it's overcomplicated that any back has any specific mount, but at least if I decided tomorrow that I wanted to put my Phase backs on a Mamiya or an H series, it would just be a few grand to replace the mount and would keep Cher happy because I wouldn't have to double her rent.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So it is with any Sinarback: change the adapter plate and mount it on any existing MF body of your choice, and it's not even a few "grants", since the "recommended price" is Euro 945.- for the eMotion adapter on Mamiya or H serie. You could even reduce Cher's rent!

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Consequently if I wanted to put a Sinar or Leaf back on my Contax I assume the only thing I need to do is write a check and wait for delivery.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Why so with the Sinarback?: we do not have dedicated mounts/backs, but an adapter system (see above).

Best regards,
Thierry
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 11:12:58 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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thsinar
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« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2008, 11:09:26 AM »
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James,

Just 2 corrections and a remark.

- there are not A LOT of FW updates since the begin of delivery of the Hy6 camera: in fact it is the VERY FIRST and it concerns a (IMO) little issue (older non-AF lenses with max. aperture not corresponding to a full stop), and in addition some new features with this upgrade.

- Admitted, all (new AFD) lenses are not available yet, but some 40+ are already available (see my published list)

- The Sinarbacks are NEVER specific to one camera: Sinar has the longest history with the adapter plates system, since the very beginning.

Best regards,
Thierry

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P.S.  don't take these comments as a condemnation of the HY6.  I think it's a great idea though I also think as a new system it should come out of the box ready to rumble with full lenses, finders, and not a lot of firmware updates to fix this or that.

In fact the only thing that would move me from the contax's is a camera that had a rotatable back and fast lenses, but not if the camera (or back for that matter) is only specific to one system.

I've gone through the learning curve of Kodak, Fuji, Canon, Nikon, Leaf and Phase and some of it has been more than rewarding, some of it has been hell, but overall digital capture has to settle down to the point we pick up a camera, turn it on and take a picture, without worrying about james, firmware updates and file compatibility.

Regardless of price, it has to be a buy it, use it, painless process.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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James R Russell
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« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2008, 11:26:44 AM »
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Why always suggesting that those lenses are so expensive? I have published the recommended market prices for the new AFD lenses (from Euro 1'900.- for the Schneider AFD Xenotar 2.8/80 PQS  to Euro 4'550.- for the Schneider AFD Variogon 4.6/60-140 PQS) and they are in the price class of some other good lenses.

Best regards,
Thierry
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Theirry, you may be right, maybe in Europe used 6000 series lenses are cheaper but not in the U.S. at least not that I've seen.

[a href=\"http://www.kurlandphoto.com/home.php?cat=9]http://www.kurlandphoto.com/home.php?cat=9[/url]

Regardless, if you have to search used lenses and spend your life on ebay, there are a lot of options.

I know you are more up on this than I am but of the people I know and work with, I'm always amazed they buy a new digital back but put it on a V, RZ or Contax mount mainly because they have already made that investment in lenses and bodies.

JR
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thsinar
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« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2008, 11:41:05 AM »
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http://www.kurlandphoto.com/home.php?cat=9
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193859\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Those are prices for new lenses, and can be found cheaper (from US$ 500 to US 2'000.-! less), when I compare with our distributor's (SBI) published prices in the USA. I understand why you find them to be expensive.

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I know you are more up on this than I am but of the people I know and work with, I'm always amazed they buy a new digital back but put it on a V, RZ or Contax mount mainly because they have already made that investment in lenses and bodies.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193859\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Nothing wrong with that, I would probably do the same, if owing a body. But that's just the nice point with Sinar, adapt it to the body of your choice. We don't push anybody to buy an entire system.

Thierry
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 11:41:37 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2008, 11:56:15 AM »
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from Sinar's Hy6 manual, which BTW has instructions for changing the focusing screen.
[attachment=6436:attachment]

Thierry, Please let me know if it's not okay to post these pages from the manual.
I will delete if instructed to.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193774\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks, learned something new today
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
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« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2008, 12:17:12 PM »
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Wait a minute....
I thought the ONLY difference between Hy6 & AFi camera body was the battery type?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=193781\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


...and the digital back!
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
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« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2008, 06:01:08 PM »
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...and the digital back!
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And the color of the finder ?
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BJNY
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« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2008, 06:21:06 PM »
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All 45degree prisms and 90degree finders going forward will be black color.
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Guillermo
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