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Author Topic: new phase one/mamiya afd3 body  (Read 11394 times)
samuel_js
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« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2008, 02:39:23 PM »
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There is so many things medium format should address, faster glass, better previews, better lcd's easy hand holdable previewing and rocket fast software that the thought of going to 40 or 50mpx backs will completely insure I stay with my current cameras for a long time.

JR
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I agree, sometimes when I look at the Winder CW attached to my 503, I wonder if it would be possible that the first version was made of stone.  
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2008, 03:18:49 PM »
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It's so funny how they can get these things so wrong sometimes. It's great to hear that the AF is good and accurate though, thats really good news.
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You can thank the marketing geniuses. You can bet they will be talking a lot about how this camera has three AF points compared to the competition's one. Even if the feature seems effectively useless.
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James R Russell
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« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2008, 04:19:17 PM »
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You can thank the marketing geniuses. You can bet they will be talking a lot about how this camera has three AF points compared to the competition's one. Even if the feature seems effectively useless.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194694\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Your may be under the false impression that these companies have large marketing departments, or for that matter have any marketing past one or two people.

Also don't think that anybody in these marketing "departments" tries to lie or even gets close to fibbing.  They advertise the best attributes of their cameras and hope it goes noticed.

In fact if you've talked to any of the medium format companies R+D people you will find the same  passion for improving the product that most of us have for improving our photography.

We all want more use from a camera, we all want more information, but it's easy (I've done this also) to complain about medium format without knowing the realities of the size of these companies.

Let's get real, medium format may be expensive, but it does exist and for that I'm glad, actually amazed.

Really, it's not that expensive.  When you think each time you push a button you get a drum scanned image, it's quite amazing.

Photographers can be (to put it kindly) "thrifty"  and especially "thrifty"  when it comes to the buy in on equipment.  It also fascinates me to see someone drive a $55,000 car, but owns no lights, not cameras, no grip and then complains about the costs.

Still, there is an effort from Mamiya, Hasselblad and Sinar and I appreciate it and don't for a moment think that if Mamiya and Phase can add more lenses, more features and keep the price below both of the compeitors H cameras then that will be good for our industry including Leaf and Sinar.

You have to also recognize that this is the only new camera that has a focal plane shutter which allows for a lot of different glass, and I like focal plane shutters.

Not to defend the Phase/Mamiya, because I haven't seen one yet, but even if the focus points are clustered close, 3 AF points are better than one.  Heck if the Nikon D3 which has great autofocusing has most of the focusing points clustered in the center of the frame.


JR
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woof75
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« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2008, 04:26:11 PM »
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Your may be under the false impression that these companies have large marketing departments, or for that matter have any marketing past one or two people.

Also don't think that anybody in these marketing "departments" tries to lie or even gets close to fibbing.  They advertise the best attributes of their cameras and hope it goes noticed.

In fact if you've talked to any of the medium format companies R+D people you will find the same  passion for improving the product that most of us have for improving our photography.

We all want more use from a camera, we all want more information, but it's easy (I've done this also) to complain about medium format without knowing the realities of the size of these companies.

Let's get real, medium format may be expensive, but it does exist and for that I'm glad, actually amazed.

Really, it's not that expensive.  When you think each time you push a button you get a drum scanned image, it's quite amazing.

Photographers can be (to put it kindly) "thrifty"  and especially "thrifty"  when it comes to the buy in on equipment.  It also fascinates me to see someone drive a $55,000 car, but owns no lights, not cameras, no grip and then complains about the costs.

Still, there is an effort from Mamiya, Hasselblad and Sinar and I appreciate it and don't for a moment think that if Mamiya and Phase can add more lenses, more features and keep the price below both of the compeitors H cameras then that will be good for our industry including Leaf and Sinar.

You have to also recognize that this is the only new camera that has a focal plane shutter which allows for a lot of different glass, and I like focal plane shutters.

Not to defend the Phase/Mamiya, because I haven't seen one yet, but even if the focus points are clustered close, 3 AF points are better than one.  Heck if the Nikon D3 which has great autofocusing has most of the focusing points clustered in the center of the frame.
JR
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Why do you like focal plane shutters?
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2008, 04:29:41 PM »
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Your may be under the false impression that these companies have large marketing departments, or for that matter have any marketing past one or two people.

Also don't think that anybody in these marketing "departments" tries to lie or even gets close to fibbing.  They advertise the best attributes of their cameras and hope it goes noticed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194709\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It only takes one marketing person to come up with this strategy. As for misleading marketing, I don't really want to open up the old Hasselblad 'full frame' debate but that was a prime example. But let's not go there...
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« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2008, 07:24:47 PM »
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I think the shortcomings of the AFDIII come from the fact (OK, not fact but my supposition) that it was developed a long ago (pre-Cosmos), perhaps in 2003, and shelved due to cash flow concerns.  All these new products (ZD back, AFDIII, 28mm) were probably developed or begun pre Cosmos, and were since revived.  

I wonder who they bought the AF module from?  If they could develop their own or get someone to OEM an AF system with AF points where they are needed, I would be excited.  I mean REAL excited.  I mean drive out to Melville and kiss Ulf on the mouth excited, and I'm straight.

Any word on pricing?

James:

I'm with you on the 100 - 110 lens range.  My 150mm is useless with the P30+, even the Macro is too long.  I almost went H for the 100 2.2.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 07:28:31 PM by TMARK » Logged
Bill Caulfeild-Browne
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« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2008, 07:48:41 PM »
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thanks for the info.  I had hoped that they would give you all three points visible in the viewfinder. 
I also meant to ask, did they have any info on the 45-90, either day of release or sug. retail? 

Paul C
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I have it on very good authority that the retail for the 45-90 will be in the $4300-4400 range. I'm told late June release, at the earliest.
Bill
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Snook
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« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2008, 08:21:35 PM »
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I have it on very good authority that the retail for the 45-90 will be in the $4300-4400 range. I'm told late June release, at the earliest.
Bill
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Wow.. Not Cheap by any means..
Where are the Leaf shutter lens...:+} Any news on those?
Snook
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thsinar
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« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2008, 09:06:53 PM »
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As an information:

The Sinar Hy6 DOES NOT have a single AF point, BUT a "Cross Sensor Multi-Zone", which is quite different.

Thierry

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Not to defend the Phase/Mamiya, because I haven't seen one yet, but even if the focus points are clustered close, 3 AF points are better than one.
JR
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« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 09:07:44 PM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2008, 10:18:55 AM »
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As an information:

The Sinar Hy6 DOES NOT have a single AF point, BUT a "Cross Sensor Multi-Zone", which is quite different.

Thierry
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What does that mean . . . One af sensor that moves around?

JR
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James R Russell
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« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2008, 10:31:51 AM »
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Why do you like focal plane shutters?
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Because you can use almost any lens.  We all know the look of the glass is more than sharpness, or the widest F stop.  The Pentax 105 2.4 looks much different than the Hasselblad 110 F2 and mostly in transitonal areas rather than just pure falloff.

You can buy a lot of these lenses in the $200 to $600 range and a few Pentax lenses on the Contax pretty much gives you the look of an RZ.

JR
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samuel_js
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« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2008, 10:41:02 AM »
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Any word on pricing?


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If you mean the Phase One camera, it will be ~ 4300 before taxes in Sweden. That will include body with prisma (of course) and 80mm lens (no film magazine).
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G_Allen
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« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2008, 10:57:27 AM »
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How's the viewfinder? Is the magnification/brightness any better?
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GREGORY ALLEN
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woof75
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« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2008, 11:16:38 AM »
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Because you can use almost any lens.  We all know the look of the glass is more than sharpness, or the widest F stop.  The Pentax 105 2.4 looks much different than the Hasselblad 110 F2 and mostly in transitonal areas rather than just pure falloff.

You can buy a lot of these lenses in the $200 to $600 range and a few Pentax lenses on the Contax pretty much gives you the look of an RZ.

JR
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Do you use the Pentax lenses in stopped down mode?
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pookipichu
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« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2008, 11:48:02 AM »
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How's the viewfinder? Is the magnification/brightness any better?
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Not having side by side comparison, I can only say that it did not seem brighter.  It was really hard to focus with the Hassy 50 f/2.8 and nail focus.  Had to bracket 5-6 shots, especially since the dof is so narrow and the focusing ring has such a long throw and allows for so much precision.  I don't know how you guys do it.  

Regarding the three AF points, honestly, they are so super close together, I'm really not seeing the benefit.  Combined with increased hunting, that unless improved by firmware, makes them useless.  Also, there's no actual "point"  just a large mask that looks sort of like this:

|_______
  • _______|

There is a circle in the middle and two brackets attached to the circle.  I am assuming the focus point is in the middle of the circle?  Or it's the entire circle?  And the two other focus points are in the middle of the bracket?  Or they are the entire bracket?  I should have asked the rep more questions but other people were more aggressive with being able to insert themselves in conversation and I didn't want to interrupt.  

On the positive side, the center AF point worked really well.  I don't mean to take anything away from the progress they made on the camera.
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woof75
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« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2008, 12:18:49 PM »
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Not having side by side comparison, I can only say that it did not seem brighter.  It was really hard to focus with the Hassy 50 f/2.8 and nail focus.  Had to bracket 5-6 shots, especially since the dof is so narrow and the focusing ring has such a long throw and allows for so much precision.  I don't know how you guys do it. 

Regarding the three AF points, honestly, they are so super close together, I'm really not seeing the benefit.  Combined with increased hunting, that unless improved by firmware, makes them useless.  Also, there's no actual "point"  just a large mask that looks sort of like this:

|_______
  • _______|

There is a circle in the middle and two brackets attached to the circle.  I am assuming the focus point is in the middle of the circle?  Or it's the entire circle?  And the two other focus points are in the middle of the bracket?  Or they are the entire bracket?  I should have asked the rep more questions but other people were more aggressive with being able to insert themselves in conversation and I didn't want to interrupt.   

On the positive side, the center AF point worked really well.  I don't mean to take anything away from the progress they made on the camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194861\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

One good one is the most important thing for me. It's not like I use a camera like this when I'm running around or the model is doing so. I like to use the af to get focus and then when I have focus I turn the af off so it stays put so recomposing after finding focus is fine for me. Do you think the central af point is better than previous models?
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pookipichu
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« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2008, 12:36:00 PM »
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Unequivocably yes.  That's why I didn't want to seem like I was disparaging the camera.  The center point focused really well, even on dark objects, low contrast.  I had problems with the H2 and zhurrr zhuurrr zhurrr, hunting.


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One good one is the most important thing for me. It's not like I use a camera like this when I'm running around or the model is doing so. I like to use the af to get focus and then when I have focus I turn the af off so it stays put so recomposing after finding focus is fine for me. Do you think the central af point is better than previous models?
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Paul2660
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« Reply #37 on: May 11, 2008, 08:50:12 AM »
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The circle in the middle with the two brackets also describes the current version.  It sounds like there is no visible change.  

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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