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Author Topic: Vista and Monitor profile problem/solved  (Read 18304 times)
hgmoore
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« on: May 07, 2008, 11:27:54 AM »
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I recently built a pc, Intel E8400 Core2 Duo 3 ghz based, 4 gb memory.
Also received Vista Ultimate 32 and 64 bit full retail versions from participating in a feedback program.

Loaded Vista 32, CS3, LR, etc for testing. I was pleasantly surprised with performance, especially after getting familiar with the new Windows Interface navigation.

I did have one major problem that almost sent me back to WinXP Pro.

I used the Gretag-MacBeth i1 Display2 monitor profiling system and it worked very well under Vista (I did upgrade software to the latest from X-rite).

Vista was seemingly trashing the profile at random causing the need to reprofile. This was driving me up the wall. Did some net searches and and found many references to the problem without solutions.

Finally ran across a year old post in the Adobe forums, it turns out that the nVidia drivers for my video card placed three items in startup, and I disabled them thru msconfig. Reboot, re-profile, Problem Gone,      

"Everything's up to date in Kansas City"

Posting this in case anyone else here has this problem.

I have another 4 gb of memory on the way in, and I will max at 8 gb ram, and will load Vista 64 bit for test 2.

Anyone have any tips on this next test ??

Harvey
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KeithR
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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2008, 04:14:26 PM »
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Finally ran across a year old post in the Adobe forums, it turns out that the nVidia drivers for my video card placed three items in startup, and I disabled them thru msconfig. Reboot, re-profile, Problem Gone,      
Harvey
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194164\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Would you happen to have a link to post?
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hgmoore
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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2008, 08:41:21 AM »
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Would you happen to have a link to post?
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[a href=\"http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc313e5]http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc313e5[/url]

Since my post above on this subject, I installed and have been testing (and liking) Vista Ultimate 64.

CS3, even though it is 32 bit, now reports:

Built-in memory: 8190 MB
Free memory: 7048 MB
Memory available to Photoshop: 3255 MB
Memory used by Photoshop: 70 %


The profile problem is the same, and even disabling the nvidia stuff in startup did not completely solve the issue.

I turned off the firewall, and this profile issue stopped happening. Now for some research into what was being blocked by the firewall.

This came in the nick of time, i was getting way too familiar with my calibration program  
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rdonson
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2008, 01:55:20 PM »
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You might want to read this article on Vista Color Mgmt by Steve Upton.  Click here.


Are you running Vista SP1?  Perhaps some of the concerns are addressed in SP1.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 01:56:34 PM by rdonson » Logged

Regards,
Ron
hgmoore
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« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2008, 05:19:36 AM »
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You might want to read this article on Vista Color Mgmt by Steve Upton.  Click here.
Are you running Vista SP1?  Perhaps some of the concerns are addressed in SP1.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194889\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ron,

I have been testing both Vista 32 and 64 bit, both with and without sp1. I received the OS's at no cost via a MS feedback program.

Built a new pc based on Intel Core2 Duo 3 ghz, 8 gb ram, etc etc to run Vista.

I was worried a bit before loading up Vista about the color management thing. If I remember right, MS and Canon collaborated on it.

I was able to get a good monitor (Samsung 215TW) profile using the i1 Display2/Match3 or whatever X-rite calls it these days.

The problem, bug, "feature" that kept popping up was a shift in screen colors away from the profile results. Light greys in some cases turned light pink. Very aggravating. This happened in both 32 and 64 bit versions, with and without sp1.

Poked around the web in the usual and not so usual places, and the only suggestions that appeared to work involved the nvidia display card. I killed the startup stuff nvidia put in, and it helped a little, but the shift was coming back eventually. Always.

I am now running Vista 64 sp1 and the only problem so far has been the color shift thing. In almost a desperation mode, I decided to disable the Windows firewall. I then did another monitor calibration, the "advanced" method where I set screen brightness and contrast manually and the result was excellent when checked against grayscale and color test images around the web. The color shift has not occurred since killing the firewall.
For now I am a happy camper with prints that match the screen close enough for this amateur. I am not a graphics pro with resources to try different devices, but I will poke around to find out what and how the Windows firewall interfered.

btw, barring any more color issues, Vista 64 has been very stable and performing well beyond my expectations. Photoshop CS3 and Lightroom are very fast on this  Vista 64 system.
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Dinarius
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2008, 07:54:19 AM »
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My tuppence worth..........

Since loading SP1 on my Vista Ultimate64bit system, I cannot retain a monitor profile.

I am using an EyeOne Match2 with basICColor Display using presets and the Express mode of profiling.

After profiling, everything looks fine. However, after either succumbing to the Authorization Bug (as outlined in the article in the above link) or rebooting, Vista fails to load the profile. In System Profile, the profile is listed as the default profile, but that is not the case. I have basICColor grey test strips permanently on my desktop and I can tell immediately when the profile goes awry.

I have turned off the nVidia startup items AND disabled the Firewall, all to no avail.

SP1 is a crock, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, Vista is very stable and CS3 screams along on this very fast computer (I can save out a 220Mb Hasselblad TIFF in 13 seconds and the Retouch Artists' Speedtest takes only 22 seconds.), but this profiling problem is a major pain.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

D.
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Steve Gordon
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2008, 09:07:58 PM »
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I'm using Vista 64 with SP1
and haven't had any of this trouble, though I was aware it was an issue.

The only difference from the above posters is that I'm using the Spyder3 Elite, which I guess must be handling color management differently to the XRite.

I haven't altered anything else, use nVidia card, and firewall has been on and off.

Sorry I can't help further but the profile handling of the products may be a clue to pursue.


Good luck
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mbalensiefer
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2008, 10:38:47 PM »
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Dinarius,

 Having removed Adobe Gamma loader with msconfig, have you tried deleting (or moving to a temp folder) all the other profiles found within the Profiles folder? This may force your system to use the only one it finds...

Michael
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 10:49:35 PM by mbalensiefer » Logged
Dinarius
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2008, 05:09:30 AM »
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Thanks for the replies guys.

Firstly, I already tried the profile removal trick, leaving only my basICColor profile. This didn't work.

However, I may have found a solution, which is based on a combination of suggestions I have received elsewhere.

With both Firewall *and* User Account Control switched off, the problem appears to be solved. After half a dozen reboots this morning, the correct profile loaded each time.

On the issue of whether or not you're having a problem. Are you absolutely sure? You see, when I was having a problem, if I went to the profile folder, the *only* profile present was the one I created using basICColor *and* it had a tick mark next to it, implying that it was the default profile and working correctly.

However, I use a basICColor grey test strip on my desktop and I can tell immediately after startup whether or not the profile has loaded - the black and white extremes lose their separation. The last two or three black and white bars blend into one another.

Do note that Vista's dumping of your profile is extremely subtle and you won't notice it unless you have visual aid on your desktop like I have - particularly so because, as I wrote above, Vista is telling you via the Profile Panel that it is using your profile.

I sent one of these test strips to another Vista user and she only realized that she had a problem after installing it as her desktop background.

Will keep you posted as to whether my User changes have solved the problem permanently.

D.
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jimk
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2008, 05:05:59 PM »
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thanx for the heads up regarding nvidia based cards
i also have nvidia card ill do as suggested and uncheck them in msconfig

dinarius  i will try your suggestion too im also using colorvision 3

Quote
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3bc313e5

Since my post above on this subject, I installed and have been testing (and liking) Vista Ultimate 64.

CS3, even though it is 32 bit, now reports:

Built-in memory: 8190 MB
Free memory: 7048 MB
Memory available to Photoshop: 3255 MB
Memory used by Photoshop: 70 %


The profile problem is the same, and even disabling the nvidia stuff in startup did not completely solve the issue.

I turned off the firewall, and this profile issue stopped happening. Now for some research into what was being blocked by the firewall.

This came in the nick of time, i was getting way too familiar with my calibration program†
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=194836\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: September 04, 2008, 05:11:05 PM by jimk » Logged
mbalensiefer
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« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2008, 10:18:45 PM »
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Dinarius, can you show the board your test strip? Thanks!

Michael
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Dinarius
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2008, 06:07:34 AM »
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OK, problem not solved as expected.  

Booted up yesterday and the test strips were altered.

As usual, the correct profile is listed in Profile Settings, but Vista is tweaking it at the extremes as I described above.

Not sure how I can post an image of the test strips. Tell me how and I'll gladly do it.

D.

ps. Not receiving email reminders for this thread for some reason.

pps. Some more discussion here> http://www.outbackphoto.com/tforum/viewtop...hp?TopicID=2518

Thread is old, but I've added my bit. Would like to know how to move the profile away from Startup.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 09:14:18 AM by Dinarius » Logged
Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2008, 05:00:30 PM »
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Thanks for the replies guys.

However, I use a basICColor grey test strip on my desktop and I can tell immediately after startup whether or not the profile has loaded - the black and white extremes lose their separation. The last two or three black and white bars blend into one another.

Do note that Vista's dumping of your profile is extremely subtle and you won't notice it unless you have visual aid on your desktop like I have - particularly so because, as I wrote above, Vista is telling you via the Profile Panel that it is using your profile.

I sent one of these test strips to another Vista user and she only realized that she had a problem after installing it as her desktop background.

D.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219383\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I question your testing method by what you indicated here.

I'm on an 2004 iMac and use i1 Display and my step wedge grayramp created in AdobeRGB showing 240,245,250,253RGB gray patches show a separation when the curves created by i1Match to correct for neutrality and nonlinearity are loaded. When just the canned iMac profile is loaded which has only simple and equally shaped tone response curves this area blends to all white starting around 245RGB gray.

Maybe BasicColor software does it differently from i1Match but this separation of tone in the extreme regions is desirable because it extends the dynamic range of your display so I have my doubts that BasicColor would build a profile reducing DR.

The only suggestion for further tests due to the subtle nature of the changes seen is to view a known color target in Photoshop using what you think is your BasicColor profile and then go back and load a different profile built by the same program only with extremely different response targets from the first one like gamma 1.8, D50 white point, luminance and manually change the look of the color temp within the software. Make sure not to change any menu buttons on the display to make it look correct.

Now load this new profile the same way with the same setup and workaround that's been working for you with the other one and see if the saturation, hues and density change in the color target.

I recommend downloading the PDI target if you haven't already heard about it.
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jackbingham
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« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2008, 07:40:53 PM »
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What is really happening here is not the profile being tossed but the video lut. That is why some users have found solace in video drivers. This has nothing to do with profiles. It is all video driver related.
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Jack Bingham
Integrated Color Corp Makers of Coloreyes Display
Tim Lookingbill
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« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2008, 07:51:59 PM »
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What is really happening here is not the profile being tossed but the video lut. That is why some users have found solace in video drivers. This has nothing to do with profiles. It is all video driver related.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220045\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Then the XY matrix colorant describers and color temp adaptation adjusts embedded within the profile that Photoshop references to control hue and saturation appearance in CM images are retained in the profile and used by Photoshop?

Are you saying the individual RGB TRC's to correct for neutrality, color crossover and gamma appearance are the things in the profile that are tossed by the video driver?

Window's video system is a mystery to me so I'm just curious as to what's happening.
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jackbingham
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« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2008, 06:12:15 AM »
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The calibration and profile process is really two parts. Before the profile measurement steps take place, at least with ColorEyes, the video card is calibrated for luminance and neutrality. That lut is loaded into the video card and that is what windows is tossing. The profile still remains in place.
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Jack Bingham
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KeithR
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« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2008, 05:08:16 PM »
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The calibration and profile process is really two parts. Before the profile measurement steps take place, at least with ColorEyes, the video card is calibrated for luminance and neutrality. That lut is loaded into the video card and that is what windows is tossing. The profile still remains in place.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220099\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I took a look at ColorEyes and from what I read concerning video cards(on a PC) is that it depends on which video card is supported. The particular nVidia card I have isn't
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Misirlou
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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2008, 06:00:11 PM »
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I'm using an old Spyder2 from ColorVision on my Vista machine. It comes with a little utility that allows you to load any saved calibration state you want, at any time. I have two monitors, and I can use it to update the LUT for either one independently. I haven't had Vista drop the LUT lately, but if it did, that "Profile Chooser" tool would allow me to fix it quickly. Do the other calibration systems not include such a tool?
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jackbingham
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« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2008, 04:18:32 PM »
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I took a look at ColorEyes and from what I read concerning video cards(on a PC) is that it depends on which video card is supported. The particular nVidia card I have isn't
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220201\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


This issue has nothing to do with that list. IThe list of cards are ones that support ddc, not which ones will take or hold a lut. Ethan Hanson posted something I saw about using Bridge to set color management prefs across all adobe applications on the pc and that stopped this from happening, at least when you launch Bridge
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Jack Bingham
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KeithR
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« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2008, 05:04:32 PM »
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This issue has nothing to do with that list. IThe list of cards are ones that support ddc, not which ones will take or hold a lut. Ethan Hanson posted something I saw about using Bridge to set color management prefs across all adobe applications on the pc and that stopped this from happening, at least when you launch Bridge
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220433\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Do you have a link?
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