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Author Topic: LR between computers  (Read 5037 times)
gunnar1
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« on: May 20, 2008, 05:17:49 PM »
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I hear (read) reference to using LR "on the road". That would mean using it on a laptop, of course. The question for those who do that is how do you integrate what you have done on your laptop with your desktop when you get back to home/office?

I would love to have LR on both machines at once for the simple fact that I would like to be able to view and catalog, keyword etc on the fly. Right now, I wait until I am back home to do that. It woul be simple to download another copy of LR to my portable, as I believe that the license transfers.

What next?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2008, 05:57:22 PM »
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I hear (read) reference to using LR "on the road". That would mean using it on a laptop, of course. The question for those who do that is how do you integrate what you have done on your laptop with your desktop when you get back to home/office?

I would love to have LR on both machines at once for the simple fact that I would like to be able to view and catalog, keyword etc on the fly. Right now, I wait until I am back home to do that. It woul be simple to download another copy of LR to my portable, as I believe that the license transfers.

What next?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196874\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Export/Import works just fine, can work on a folder or a collection and updates images and all associated metadata.

For me, I take a Buss powered firewire drive with me.

Syncing up multiple drives, even total clones of the big drive at the office isn't an issue.
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Andrew Rodney
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aduke
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2008, 06:00:59 PM »
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I hear (read) reference to using LR "on the road". That would mean using it on a laptop, of course. The question for those who do that is how do you integrate what you have done on your laptop with your desktop when you get back to home/office?

I would love to have LR on both machines at once for the simple fact that I would like to be able to view and catalog, keyword etc on the fly. Right now, I wait until I am back home to do that. It woul be simple to download another copy of LR to my portable, as I believe that the license transfers.

What next?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196874\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I'm going thru the same thoughts now and think I have a good solution. With a laptop and a USB external drive, I have the library on the external drive, rename files and convert to DNG on import onto the external drive and backup the images onto the internal drive on the laptop.

When returning home from a trip, I plan to attach the external drive to the desktop machine and Import from Catalog into the main LR library.

This gives me the ability to do some editing on the laptop, including cropping and perhaps setting the exposure and setting flags and ratings. All of these transfer with the image to the laptop.

When everything is transferred and backed-up, I can then clean-up the laptop and the external drive for next time.

Alan
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gunnar1
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« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2008, 07:19:04 PM »
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OK, so let me see if I've got this right: 1) I should use some sort of external drive, and designate that drive as where my file import goes. 2) when I get back home, I should use the import funtcion of my desktop LR to bring everything in?
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digitaldog
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« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2008, 07:24:05 PM »
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OK, so let me see if I've got this right: 1) I should use some sort of external drive, and designate that drive as where my file import goes. 2) when I get back home, I should use the import funtcion of my desktop LR to bring everything in?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=196894\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In a nutshell, yes. But, a lot depends on how big a library you have and how big a drive you have. Ideally, you could clone the main system's library onto the external drive. Take it on location, import images, do the necessary work, then get home and sync the library with the main one. Or maybe you have a huge library of images that can't possibly fit on a smaller external drive. So you can of course build a new folder (or collection) of "new images" from the road, sycn/update that to the main drive back at home. Either way, LR has the capabilities to keep multiple libraries in sync.
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Andrew Rodney
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David Sutton
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« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2008, 03:17:29 AM »
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This makes my head hurt. I guess it depends on how big your databases are. Currently my previews are 4.5 GB and the database  is 140 MB  and both stay on a 250 GB usb drive together with my Lightroom settings folder and my images. I just plug it into my laptop or desktop and everything is the same on both machines.
No syncing or import/export of catalogues.
When the drive is full I buy a new drive and move the database, previews and settings onto it and file the old drive. It's great that the previews of archived drives stay in the database for reference.
On the road I back up to the laptop and the usb drive stays on my person. Sometimes  a Hyperdrive in the suitcase as a third back up.
This won't work so easily if you have several people using both machines, but for one person shooting in the hundreds and not thousands of photos per day, I haven't found a downside yet.
Cheers, David
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BobR
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« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2008, 03:32:04 AM »
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My situation is a variation of the above. I have a laptop for when I am on the road, and a desktop back home. All images are kept on an external drive that is connected to each system via USB. However, when I am on the road I enter my keywords. This is kept in the catalogue on the laptop. When I return and want this to update my catalogue on the desktop I can't get my keywords across. Export does not move the keywords. If I just connect the external drive and do a sync I can update the catalogue on the desktop, but of course I have to reenter the keywords. How are others managing this.
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David Sutton
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« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2008, 04:48:10 AM »
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My situation is a variation of the above. I have a laptop for when I am on the road, and a desktop back home. All images are kept on an external drive that is connected to each system via USB. However, when I am on the road I enter my keywords. This is kept in the catalogue on the laptop. When I return and want this to update my catalogue on the desktop I can't get my keywords across. Export does not move the keywords. If I just connect the external drive and do a sync I can update the catalogue on the desktop, but of course I have to reenter the keywords. How are others managing this.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Having one library only on an external drive I think avoids this.
I think your metadata has to written to the xmp sidecars in order for it to go with the catalog. Someone here may be able to confirm this. You could have a look at [a href=\"http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1211707]http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1211707[/url]
It may help. I didn't get time to read it in full yet.
Cheers, David
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digitaldog
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« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2008, 08:09:29 AM »
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Export does not move the keywords.

It should. Did you try Sync Folders?
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Andrew Rodney
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BobR
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« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2008, 05:45:20 PM »
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It should. Did you try Sync Folders?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197004\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Just to clarify my previous entry. Each system has its own catalogue. The original images are kept on an external drive which is moved between each system. This allows me to have a full catalogue on the laptop to show any image. Should I need to work on an image via the laptop LR has access to the full image providing the external drive is connected. Most image work though is done on the desktop. Sync Folders will look at the external drive for new additions and update the relevant systems catalogue. No keywords will move with action. As mentioned above, export is not moving the keywords either. Still have to explore the sidecar suggestion as mentioned by David.
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David Sutton
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« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 04:52:56 AM »
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Just to clarify my previous entry. Each system has its own catalogue. The original images are kept on an external drive which is moved between each system. This allows me to have a full catalogue on the laptop to show any image. Should I need to work on an image via the laptop LR has access to the full image providing the external drive is connected. Most image work though is done on the desktop. Sync Folders will look at the external drive for new additions and update the relevant systems catalogue. No keywords will move with action. As mentioned above, export is not moving the keywords either. Still have to explore the sidecar suggestion as mentioned by David.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197133\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just one further thought. If you right click one of the images where the metadata/keywords haven't come across, and select "view options", is the "unsaved metadata" box checked? Then see if there is the upward facing arrow in the top right hand corner of the image. If there is, clicking on it will bring up the dialogue box for importing your keywords etc ( select "import settings from disk").
Or if the images were already in the catalog, but worked on with the laptop, are you selecting them and hitting "import" to bring in the changed metadata? Sorry if I'm suggesting stuff you've already done.
Cheers, David
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BobR
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« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2008, 06:49:11 AM »
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Just one further thought. If you right click one of the images where the metadata/keywords haven't come across, and select "view options", is the "unsaved metadata" box checked? Then see if there is the upward facing arrow in the top right hand corner of the image. If there is, clicking on it will bring up the dialogue box for importing your keywords etc ( select "import settings from disk").
Or if the images were already in the catalog, but worked on with the laptop, are you selecting them and hitting "import" to bring in the changed metadata? Sorry if I'm suggesting stuff you've already done.
Cheers, David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197205\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
David, thanks for your help here. I hope that I have not hijacked gunnar1's thread and that this is contributing to their original post.

"unsaved metadata" has not been checked. I assume that this should be checked if changes made to an image (including kewording) is to be moved with the image.

Bob
« Last Edit: May 22, 2008, 06:50:35 AM by BobR » Logged
David Sutton
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« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2008, 03:41:55 AM »
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I hope that I have not hijacked gunnar1's thread and that this is contributing to their original post.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197220\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm sure he won't mind.
This is how I see it (with the caveat that I haven't tried any of this as I have only
one catalogue shared between two computers).
There are two sorts of metadata:
1) The sort you write (keywords,IPTC info etc)
2) The sort the camera writes (Exif data etc)
The sort the camera writes is included in the raw file and you can't usually change that. The sort you write goes into the LR catalogue. There it can't be accessed by other programs (Bridge etc.), so if you want the metadata to be accessed by other programs or to travel with the images when they are exported to another catalogue, then the metadata needs to be written into an xmp sidecar file for each image.
To do this you can go to:  File - Catalog Settings - Metadata   and tick the "auto write" box. So now you don't have to worry about updating sidecar files. The big disadvantage of doing this is that you have to wait while the metadata is written, and it can really slow down LR. So many people turn this option off.
So before exporting images you may need to save the metadata into the xmp sidecar file. Select the images you are going to export and go to: Metadata - "Save to File" or hit Cntrl S.
You can see if there is unsaved metadata by going to: View - Options and ticking the "unsaved metadata" box. Now if you see an arrow in the top right of an image that's pointing downwards, click on it to update the metadata for that image or for all the selected images.
Say you now go to : File - Export as Catalog, and you put the images into a file on your desktop. If you look in that file you should see your Previews, photos with xmp sidecars, and Catalog file. You may need to go to Folder Options and select "show hidden files" to see the xmp files. I don't know. If you then open one of the images in Photoshop, ACR should see your metadata and image adjustments. If you delete the sidecar file and reopen the image, just the original raw file should be left.
After you import the catalogue into the other computer, you should see upward facing arrows in the top right corner of images that have had metadata added. You need to get this into LR from the sidecar files. Select all the images and click on an arrow (you may get a "metadata changed externally" message - yes, it was`done on the other machine). Choose "import settings from disk" and you are done.
If you convert your images to DNG, you don't have this bother. But I can't get a workflow going that that does what I want with my images, so I have scrapped DNG for the time being and am sticking with the CR2 files. I also never update my sidecar files as I only use LR and Photoshop.  I found Bridge slow and buggy and I just don't get it.
Hope this helps and I haven't made any major stuff ups.
Cheers, David
« Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 03:42:56 AM by Taquin » Logged

DavidB
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« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2008, 04:37:23 AM »
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To do this you can go to:  File - Catalog Settings - Metadata   and tick the "auto write" box. So now you don't have to worry about updating sidecar files. The big disadvantage of doing this is that you have to wait while the metadata is written, and it can really slow down LR. So many people turn this option off.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=197410\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
In case you're not aware: at LR 1.3 the performance impact of this was greatly reduced.  Prior to 1.3 I had to leave it turned off, but these days I leave it on.  But note that I'm mainly working with camera RAW files (i.e. usually not DNGs) and sometimes TIFFs.  With the RAW files LR just has to update the tiny .XMP files: it has to do a bit more work with files where the XMP data is embedded.

But you only need to save the metadata out if:
  • You want to share the settings with Bridge +/or Photoshop (e.g. you're going to drag RAW files from LR's grid or filmstrip to Photoshop CS3 and expect to have your LR adjustments show up in ACR), or
  • You like to have a dynamic backup of your adjustments (other than Collection and Virtual Copy info) besides the catalog file itself.
You don't need to save the XMP data to use Export Catalog or Import from Catalog.


In my current environment my main catalog on my desktop system is too large and unwieldy to use on my laptop (ok, so my laptop needs an upgrade...) and I mainly use LR on the laptop to manage new photos in the field.  So I start off with an empty catalog and an empty "images" folder on the laptop's internal drive.  I do have an external drive which is used for backups, but I like the flexibility of being able to work on the catalog without having an external drive being dragged around.  On longer trips I have a 3rd external drive that I migrate older folder trees to (still managed through the LR catalog on the internal drive) and a 4th drive for backups.

When I get back to base I connect the laptop up to the network, and copy the folders of images over to the main storage system.  Sure it might take a little longer to copy over the gigabit LAN than via FireWire directly from an external drive, but it can do this while I'm unpacking from the trip.  Then on the desktop system I use Import from Catalog to read from the laptop's catalog and bring the images into the main catalog.  When necessary I can use "Locate Missing Folder" to get it to find the files that I've copied over.  I could do the Import from Catalog first, and then get LR to move the files from the laptop's folders to the desktop's, but I prefer to *copy* the files rather than move them.
When you Import from Catalog you get all the Virtual Copies, Collections, keywords, everything.
Once that's done I can zap the catalog and folders on the laptop and start again.

It does help to have a consistent folder structure across the drives to simplify migrating the images.  Right now I have a "media-A" folder on the laptop, "media-B" and "media-C" on various RAID disks on the desktop, and sometimes a "media-D" on the laptop's external drive.  The folder structure within these is consistent.
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BobR
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« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2008, 07:46:13 AM »
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Thanks to you both for your responses. I now have a better understanding of how this part of LR works. It will be a few days before I can try your suggestions out. I will let you know how things work out.

Bob
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gunnar1
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« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2008, 09:30:33 PM »
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This thread has been busy while I've been away! Thanks to all for the responses and discussion. The more we know, the better off we are.

I didn't have the opportunity to test out any of the various workflows brought up here as it was too close to the time that I left, and I didn't have time to prepare, so all the files came home on cards (good thing Sandisk had killer rebates this year- I have gigs to spare).

I am going to try this weekend to work through the necessary steps to make this work, while I have the portable sitting next to the desktop. That should make it easier to understand the process. I'll report my successes/failures in this thread.

Thanks again, Pat
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