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Author Topic: Bill Henson exhibition closed down by Police  (Read 23562 times)
canmiya
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« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2008, 02:06:04 PM »
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Take a look at Sally Mann photographies of her own sons and daughters, please... By the way, take a look at some Caravaggio's paintings...
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interesting point! funny how people seem to forget about the ages of models in some of the most coveted works of art that hang in many a museum.
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froesner
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« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2008, 02:25:46 PM »
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Personally I think the human body is the most natural thing in the world. As long as the context is non-sexual I see nothing offensive in nudity, no matter the age.
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Absolutely amsp. But "nudity" triggers the reflexes of those who feel morally superior to counter-balance for their lack of self confidence and feeling of being mistreated. "Context" is by far to complex to look at
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tom_l
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« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2008, 02:32:20 PM »
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Photography and Art are perceived differently at different moments in history. They are also perceived differently by us LL forum members, depending on where we come from, and what our background is.
I remember this album cover from a famous german hard rock band (from the 70's or 80's) my older brother used to have. There was a naked girl/child on the cover. I can't remember questioning this kind of photography back then, but I can understand and accept that this image is perceived differently by others today.
Anybody bought Martin Parr's marvellous "History of the Photobook", where he also talks about a (very liberal 68th style) art/nude photography book that was accepted back then, but not today because of the explicit content that will be misunderstood 40 years later?
Personally, i always try to be on the photography's side, but I also try to understand the other side. But, as much as I welcome discussions about and around art/photography, closing an exhibition is not the way to go. Some years ago, conservative "forces" veiled a public Nana sculpture by Niki de Saint-Phalle in my country because of the explicit curves of the sculptures. There a hundred of examples in other countries where some people try to decide what the public has to contemplate in museums/art galleries and what not.
Where does this stop?

Tom
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Sunesha
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« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2008, 02:58:27 PM »
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Interesting. I think it is about attitudes and mostly more about fear. Witchhunts always starts with fear.

In my town we have a naked child statue that is just angel like.

In Sweden, child pornography is judged by its intent. Photos off naked children playing around and for example a a brother and sister playing in bath tub isnt considered to be child pornography. It must have a sexual content. Art and family photos arnt pornography by swedish law. We had this witchhunt in the courts in sweden.

I guess if I bring my photo album from my childhood. I have a lot off photos off my little sister and me playing with a submarine naked in a bathtub it would be considered child pornography by some countries law. It isnt unusual photos. When grew children playing around naked in water was considered cute. Today many even if I would say Sweden is a very liberal and great country off freedom off expression and speech. Some swedish people will try to call this child pornography.

I wouldnt mind to show this photos to other which I have done off my little sister as children playing naked. After it shows the innocence off childhood before we start be burden off the sexual dogmas that come more and more the older you get.

I think it is all about fear, that some people with twisted sexual desire will find pleasure off looking off them. That scare people. I understand this. But I feel if we start censor in this direction we make society that make the human body as only a sexual object. We start objectify ourselves. We will end up unhealthy psychological relation to our human apperence. Start taboos.  

When we add shame to our own apperence as human body. Nobody would feel comfortable with this. This a cultural phenomena. Not a sexual phenomena. Our brains add the sexual tension and excitement to nakedness. If it isnt in sexual content, we just added more shame to feel this. We made nakeness just beeing about sexual content.

When we fear that even photos off naked humans add sexual tension. I ask myself is it wrong off the viewer or the artist/photographer if it is just clearly a naked body. I would dare say it is the wrong off viewer that cant see the human body as thing other than sexual object. Then I think it is scary that you make thoughts a crime. The intention isnt often about sexual arousal material. Is it crime that some people will view nakeness as pornography. When others just see a human. Not a sex object?

I am very confused. But I guess we Swedes have diffrent relation nakeness. It isnt something very strange in our country. I wouldn´t say that sweden is un-moral country. We have top ten rankings in all human rights. But some probaly think we are just perverts
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Daniel Sunebring, Malmoe, Sweden
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Sunesha
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« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2008, 03:16:27 PM »
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Our angels in our churches is often painted naked. Often naked angel children in our churches. I wouldnt deem this sexual content. The artist see the angels so pure that need off clothes arn´t needed.

A lot off art has nude content that dont take difference in age group or gender.  

Our art history and heritage is full off not political correct content. Even the churches I visited in europes. I seen many castles. The typical naked child angel isnt a very rare subject.

I just think about it. As at least in Sweden the Christian right wing that IMHO I am happy to be minority in our country is turning a blind eye to their own church art. But we had them rip people for showing a naked child.

I feel sorry for Australia. I hope as they are to my point off view a good country. That by police stopped this. It will bring this up to discussion. So it can set standards between art and pornography.

We had this struggle in Sweden. It was a fast one and now the police know how to interpret our laws. I am very sure Australia has sensible laws. I hope it will go well. As I think the freedom off art and expression is a important matter to all the world.

The only way to abandon strange views and agendas. Is to discuss them openly. Otherwise we end up with much distorted view off the world. I think you must always challenge your own prejudices.

Cheers and hope it will go well this in the end,
Daniel
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Daniel Sunebring, Malmoe, Sweden
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PdF
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« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2008, 03:47:24 PM »
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Are the pictures of Bill Henson made with a MFDB ?

PdF
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froesner
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« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2008, 04:09:09 PM »
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Are the pictures of Bill Henson made with a MFDB ?

PdF
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This subject matter (should) concern all photographers ... no matter what type of equipment they are using
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sanvandur
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« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2008, 04:46:58 PM »
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This subject matter (should) concern all photographers ... no matter what type of equipment they are using
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This discussion DOES concern all photographers, but do all photographers use MFDB?
I agree with what I guess PdF is implying. If this discussion is so important to all photographers, then it should be in "The Art of Photography" section of LL forum, not "Equipment & Techniques".
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froesner
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« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2008, 04:59:39 PM »
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This discussion DOES concern all photographers, but do all photographers use MFDB?
I agree with what I guess PdF is implying. If this discussion is so important to all photographers, then it should be in "The Art of Photography" section of LL forum, not "Equipment & Techniques".
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... and I though we Germans would be leading the worlds bureaucracy ranking  
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sanvandur
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« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2008, 05:10:07 PM »
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... and I though we Germans would be leading the worlds bureaucracy ranking   
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Huh
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Dustbak
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« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2008, 05:13:09 PM »
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Huh
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Quite obvious and really funny  (maybe you should be German or living close to them to understand )
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mcfoto
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« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2008, 07:40:38 PM »
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http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/arson-thre...1183177189.html
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Denis Montalbetti
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AndreNapier
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« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2008, 09:52:11 PM »
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an
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Ray
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« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2008, 10:55:44 PM »
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I'm reminded of what happened to Frank Meadows Suttcliffe during the late 19th century. Sutcliffe was one of the most renowned photographers in the world at the time (British of course). His most famous photo, Water Rats, a scene of a group of nude young boys frolicking in the water and messing around on small boats, was bought by the Prince of Wales.

However, the photo caused such an outrage from some quarters (this was Victorian England) Sutcliffe was excommunicated by the local clergy of Whitby, the small fishing village where Sutcliffe had his studio.

I won't show the photo here in case it causes similar outrage, but you can do an interent search to see how innocent the photo is. What is curious is that he was excommunicated for corrupting the opposite sex. Apparently the sight of young nude boys is supposed to be very disturbing to young girls.
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Sean Reginald Knight
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« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2008, 12:50:40 PM »
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Hey, EPd. your tadpoles are stark nekkid. Maybe I should get the thought police to sic your ass.
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froesner
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« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2008, 02:30:02 PM »
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I want my kids to be worriers for morality and not soft lovers and artists.
It has to end, it can as well end with me.
http://AndreNapier.com
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No offence Andre, just a concern:

is it a coincidence that "worriers" sounds like "warriors" for morality? And who defines what moral we are talking about (and worry about or fight for)?

The history of my country has shown me, that any idea of how people should live must be continuously challenged - or it will turn into absolutism, fanatism and later fascism.

The challengers are free press and the arts among others. That is why we need to be extremely careful with what is allowed and what is not - even if sometimes someone feels hurt by what is called art.

Frank
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AndreNapier
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« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2008, 03:05:44 PM »
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No offence Andre, just a concern:

is it a coincidence that "worriers" sounds like "warriors" for morality? And who defines what moral we are talking about (and worry about or fight for)?

The history of my country has shown me, that any idea of how people should live must be continuously challenged - or it will turn into absolutism, fanatism and later fascism.

The challengers are free press and the arts among others. That is why we need to be extremely careful with what is allowed and what is not - even if sometimes someone feels hurt by what is called art.

Frank
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I hope you got it that I was joking.
Andre
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froesner
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« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2008, 03:47:22 PM »
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I hope you got it that I was joking.
Andre
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Joking? ... it is obviously proven again: Germans have no sense of humour.

To be honest, no I did not get it.    

Shame on me ...
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mcfoto
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« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2008, 07:50:36 PM »
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update
http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/fury-at-ru...1653845928.html

http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-win...1653914186.html

http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/ive-no-reg...1653846181.htmlhttp://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/henson-wins-one-loses-two/2008/05/26/1211653914186.html
« Last Edit: May 26, 2008, 03:58:07 AM by mcfoto » Logged

Denis Montalbetti
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« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2008, 08:43:42 PM »
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I hope you got it that I was joking.
Andre
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I had to read it twice !

Great conversation guys  - when I saw it on the news I immediately thought of Sally Mann's work .
But she isn't lone in depicting naked children - Julia Margaret Cameron anyone ? I thought the little I had seen of the Bill Henson materiel had a similar feel in that metaphorical spiritual sense.
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