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Author Topic: Need help Fungus on H1D  (Read 16344 times)
Kitty
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« on: May 27, 2008, 05:57:07 AM »
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My friend just found his H1D has fungus on IR filter front of CCD. I try to clean it but it seems no way to wipe it out. Does anyone know how to solve this? Or how much it cost to change this IR? Any advise would be appreciated.

kitty
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carl dw
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« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2008, 09:39:46 AM »
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My friend just found his H1D has fungus on IR filter front of CCD. I try to clean it but it seems no way to wipe it out. Does anyone know how to solve this? Or how much it cost to change this IR? Any advise would be appreciated.

kitty
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198277\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I had what seemed like the same problem with an Imacon (now Hasselblad) Carnival back in 2003.

I never got to the bottom of exactly what had occurred; it looked like tiny, randomly placed concentric rings - could of been fungus or maybe some separation between layers (if their are any in the filter!?)

It had to go back to Denmark for filter replacement, service and re-calibration. Cost then was about 500. Sorry.
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Kitty
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« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2008, 10:47:35 AM »
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Thanks for quick reply.
I think 500 is reasonable. The dealer here quote 1,200 for filter replacement.
No guarantee that the problem will be repeat or not.

Could we send directly to Denmark?
I think 1,200 for filter replacement is too much.
My friend is thinking of switching to phase now.

kitty
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carl dw
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2008, 11:36:49 AM »
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Thanks for quick reply.
I think 500 is reasonable. The dealer here quote 1,200 for filter replacement.
No guarantee that the problem will be repeat or not.

Could we send directly to Denmark?
I think 1,200 for filter replacement is too much.
My friend is thinking of switching to phase now.

kitty
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198344\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I'm not sure about sending direct.

I sent mine via a dealer, but that was 5 years ago and the filter in my old back was only 35mm format!

I guess the larger filter on your friends later model along with the passing of five years may in fact add up to 1,200 unfortunately.

Both Phase and Hasselblad have good trade-in packages so if your friend fancies the latest model now might be the best time.

I've learned to keep my back in a tiny Pelicase with a constant supply of fresh silica gel sachets!
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Dustbak
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2008, 12:58:01 PM »
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Your friend might want to check out trade-up possibilities. This could end up being the smart thing to do. Especially if you already planned to upgrade or change.
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Chris Livsey
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2008, 01:09:06 PM »
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A recent thread on the Phase P Back forum emphasised that all returns must be via a dealer and not direct.
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Chris Livsey
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Brent Daniels
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« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2008, 06:47:22 PM »
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This fungus issue is a known problem with all Imacon / Hasseblad IR glass on all backs up to the latest new  H3D11 which has the new glass.

In the 2.5 years I have had a 528C back it has had 2 vacations to Denmark for the glass to be replaced. Here in Sydney it can be very hot & humid some years. It needs the right conditions to make it grow. The beginning of this year was bad and as such there wee several fungus attacks here.

There is no cleaning method. The only fix is to replace the glass, or as is always suggested to me, upgrade. Spending 20,000.00 + to upgrade never seemed like a solution to a problematic 6 x 4.5 cm piece of glass.

The cost that your dealer is quoting is really far out. Please go to the Hasselblad web-site service section that quotes fixed price repairs.
http://www.hasselblad.com/service--support...xed-prices.aspx

You will find CCD cleaning. To clean the CCD the glass is removed and can then be replaced with the actual glass as the only additional cost. At a quoted cost of 315 Euros this is a far difference from what you were quoted. You can not go direct. However you can show them the Hasselblad site info and ask what is up.

With my last one ( returned 3 weeks ago ) I do not think they charged for the glass as it is a know problem. My last repair was $480.00 AUD all up which about equals the Euro quoted cost. My dealer David Roche at Silver Pixel here in Sydney has been more than great in dealing with this issue, hopefully your dealer will also.

Good luck
Brent Daniels
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pprdigital
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« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2008, 09:27:01 PM »
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This fungus issue is a known problem with all Imacon / Hasseblad IR glass on all backs up to the latest new  H3D11 which has the new glass.


Good luck
Brent Daniels
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198423\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I realize this may be greeted with "Oh, yeah right", but only one of my customers (still using a 6 megapixel 3020 unit) using Imacon/Hasselblad products has yet to experience any fungal issues, going back over 5 years.

To be sure, this happens more commonly in tropical humid climates, although here in the southeast US, we qualify to some degree at least part of the year.

Sensor fungus is not restricted to Imacon/Hasselblad, as I have seen other digital back brands (won't be named) experience this. In any case, it is not common.

In the USA, IR Filter replacement for a Hasselblad product is typically in the $500-$700-ish range, depending on your dealer.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
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Steve Hendrix
Kitty
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« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2008, 10:05:09 PM »
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Thank you all for all the reply.
At least there is hope.

Changing IR is the 1st choice.
Upgrade would be the last choice.

I just hope the dealer will listen to me. 700 US and 1,200 Euro is big different.
Camera is still in good shape. Take only 4,500 shots.
The model is H1D Ixpress 132C, 22 MP.

I also attached some pictures so you how it looks like.

Steve, I am curious. Why the price is so much different?
And if they don't reduce the price to normal rate.
Can I contact directly to Hasselblad or send to you?

TIA,
kitty

[attachment=6810:attachment][attachment=6811:attachment]
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James R Russell
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« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2008, 10:20:16 PM »
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Thank you all for all the reply.
At least there is hope.

Changing IR is the 1st choice.
Upgrade would be the last choice.

I just hope the dealer will listen to me. 700 US and 1,200 Euro is big different.
Camera is still in good shape. Take only 4,500 shots.
The model is H1D Ixpress 132C, 22 MP.

I also attached some pictures so you how it looks like.

Steve, I am curious. Why the price is so much different?
And if they don't reduce the price to normal rate.
Can I contact directly to Hasselblad or send to you?

TIA,
kitty

[attachment=6810:attachment][attachment=6811:attachment]





[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198452\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Regardless of the manufacturer, this should be covered by the maker of the backs, including a loner, shipping and return.

I'm serious, because anytime a manufacturer has a reaccuring problem there should be a big sticker on the front of the camera that warns you and says something like , DO NOT USE IN HUMID CLIMATES, or they shoud fix it and send a big note of apology.

After all it's not like you did some hell raising shoot for 6 months in the Amazon.

A $30k camera should be fixed for free for this type of issue.

I had my ups and downs with the Aptus, but on Leaf's behalf when my A-22 suffered overheating, they gave me a brand new one in days, no price, no charge, no questions asked.

That is exactly the way this should work and one thing Leaf is spot on about.

No manufacturer should look at this as a profit or cost center and no manufacturer should put this type of issue on the user or the dealer.

JR
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Kitty
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« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2008, 11:09:59 PM »
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Regardless of the manufacturer, this should be covered by the maker of the backs, including a loner, shipping and return.

I'm serious, because anytime a manufacturer has a reaccuring problem there should be a big sticker on the front of the camera that warns you and says something like , DO NOT USE IN HUMID CLIMATES, or they shoud fix it and send a big note of apology.

After all it's not like you did some hell raising shoot for 6 months in the Amazon.

A $30k camera should be fixed for free for this type of issue.

I had my ups and downs with the Aptus, but on Leaf's behalf when my A-22 suffered overheating, they gave me a brand new one in days, no price, no charge, no questions asked.

That is exactly the way this should work and one thing Leaf is spot on about.

No manufacturer should look at this as a profit or cost center and no manufacturer should put this type of issue on the user or the dealer.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198454\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

JR, I totally agree 100%.
By phone they said no warranty that fungus problem will be repeated.
I talked to someone and they said even H3D2 also has fungus problem on IR filter too.
I don't know whether it is true or not. But I think a lot of people never heard this.

I just hope there is something wrong with their communication.
I hate to think they are making money from reparing services.

kitty
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James R Russell
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« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2008, 12:09:33 AM »
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JR, I totally agree 100%.
By phone they said no warranty that fungus problem will be repeated.
I talked to someone and they said even H3D2 also has fungus problem on IR filter too.
I don't know whether it is true or not. But I think a lot of people never heard this.

I just hope there is something wrong with their communication.
I hate to think they are making money from reparing services.

kitty
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198459\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Not to belabor this, but I feel strongly about the equipment we use, because I feel strongly about getting the job done.

If you buy an expensive back, you take precautions and your check clears you lived to your end of the bargain, the manufacturer should live to theirs.

Most of us use these tools for our livelihood and few clients are asking us to move up to a bigger camera, larger files, or know the difference betwen 14 bit and 16 bit conversion.  We do this of our on accord to provide what we hope is a better image with a better workflow.

Losing days, even weeks waiting for a paid repair for something that obviously is a known issue is really not right and if medium format wants to stay in the camera game, they all need to up their game and deliver EXACTLY what they promise.

After all we are held to that standard in our work.




JR
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Dustbak
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« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2008, 01:04:54 AM »
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Spending 20,000.00 + to upgrade never seemed like a solution to a problematic 6 x 4.5 cm piece of glass.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198423\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I do agree it is a ridiculous price for replacing the IR filter (which can't even be the new and improved filter). The upgrade advice was because her friend already planned on going to another back.

At the price of 1200euros for a new IR filter it is a good deduction of any trade-in price. Which are way less than 20K btw, more in the order of 10K (slightly above).
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 01:07:11 AM by Dustbak » Logged
shutay
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« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2008, 02:12:58 AM »
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I sent my Ixpress back for IR filter cleaning recently through my local dealer. The back was sent out from Malaysia to Copenhagen, and returned 3 weeks later just as they said. The cost was EURO 315 + shipping and insurance, which came up to approximately EURO 372 at the prevailing exchange rate or at the time about USD 550.

My Ixpress back now lives inside a dry cabinet as ambient humidity here is a soggy 86% average all year round, especially after my dealer urged me to keep it stored either in a permanently air conditioned room, or a dry cabinet. But to me, I am a bit peeved at the apparent delicateness of the IR filter on the Ixpress - afterall, we practically throw our Nikons about with no particular care for them except to take them for the very occasional clean at Nikon, and they don't appear to be susceptible to any of these problems. Our local conditions being what they are though, dealing with "welded" dust due to condensation, temperature and humidity changes is a fact of life as we go from outside weather to airconditioned interiors, etc. I can't do all my photography inside a safe "bubble" all the time.

BTW, I have no experience of other digital backs in tropical weather, so I cannot comment on them.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 02:15:00 AM by shutay » Logged
Kitty
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« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2008, 02:53:09 AM »
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I sent my Ixpress back for IR filter cleaning recently through my local dealer. The back was sent out from Malaysia to Copenhagen, and returned 3 weeks later just as they said. The cost was EURO 315 + shipping and insurance, which came up to approximately EURO 372 at the prevailing exchange rate or at the time about USD 550.

My Ixpress back now lives inside a dry cabinet as ambient humidity here is a soggy 86% average all year round, especially after my dealer urged me to keep it stored either in a permanently air conditioned room, or a dry cabinet. But to me, I am a bit peeved at the apparent delicateness of the IR filter on the Ixpress - afterall, we practically throw our Nikons about with no particular care for them except to take them for the very occasional clean at Nikon, and they don't appear to be susceptible to any of these problems. Our local conditions being what they are though, dealing with "welded" dust due to condensation, temperature and humidity changes is a fact of life as we go from outside weather to airconditioned interiors, etc. I can't do all my photography inside a safe "bubble" all the time.

BTW, I have no experience of other digital backs in tropical weather, so I cannot comment on them.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198475\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Shutay, Could you please give me address and email of your dealer in Malaysia? I live in Bangkok, Thailand. The dealer here is Shriro [Thailand].

kitty
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shutay
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« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2008, 03:07:56 AM »
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Shutay, Could you please give me address and email of your dealer in Malaysia? I live in Bangkok, Thailand. The dealer here is Shriro [Thailand].

kitty
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198479\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Oh that's interesting because my dealer is also Shriro...
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shutay
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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2008, 03:17:38 AM »
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Shutay, Could you please give me address and email of your dealer in Malaysia? I live in Bangkok, Thailand. The dealer here is Shriro [Thailand].

kitty
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198479\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've PM'ed the requested information.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2008, 05:33:19 AM »
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We have a lot of humidity problems in Hawaii so to prevent fungus I put 2 zorb-its in each of my camera bags
http://www.zorb-it.com
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
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« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2008, 11:30:38 PM »
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I will never cease to be amazed by the irrational ideas and assumptions that some otherwise intelligent people are willing to believe and repeat to others as if it is fact. In some cases it is because they are uninterested in doing even a little research and/or they hear or read nonsense that they want to believe.

There is nothing inherent in any type of glass that will make it more or less susceptible to fungus growth. There is nothing a manufacturer can do to prevent the occurrence on any optical surface that is exposed to the environment. Certain types of microscope and sporting optics are sealed against air and moisture, often with nitrogen inside, to minimize the risk of contamination. This not possible with optics that must move in a way that requires displacement of air, as nearly all camera lenses do, and impossible with an IR filter on a digital back.

Fungus growth on optics is something that I've seen on a wide variety of camera lenses, some viewfinders and prisms and never on a digital back, though none are immune to the possibility. It only requires the right environment, exposure to the right type of spores and time to grow undisturbed with something to feed on over that time period.  Fungi are living cells that require an environment that will support them including organic matter for nourishment. It is not the glass itself that provides the needed environment, but microscopic organic material from the environment that is deposited and builds up, allowing spores in the air to attach and grow. Moisture is also needed to sustain life in the cells, which is why humid environments are ideal.

The owners and users of vulnerable equipment can take proper care and precautions to reduce the risk of fungal growth... or not. The use of desiccants to absorb moisture and storing equipment in a safe environment can certainly help. Cleaning the surface of lenses and sensors occasionally, to remove the invisible environmental films that build up, would also be a sound practice.
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marcmccalmont
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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2008, 01:41:58 AM »
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I will never cease to be amazed by the irrational ideas and assumptions that some otherwise intelligent people are willing to believe and repeat to others as if it is fact. In some cases it is because they are uninterested in doing even a little research and/or they hear or read nonsense that they want to believe.

There is nothing inherent in any type of glass that will make it more or less susceptible to fungus growth. There is nothing a manufacturer can do to prevent the occurrence on any optical surface that is exposed to the environment. Certain types of microscope and sporting optics are sealed against air and moisture, often with nitrogen inside, to minimize the risk of contamination. This not possible with optics that must move in a way that requires displacement of air, as nearly all camera lenses do, and impossible with an IR filter on a digital back.

Fungus growth on optics is something that I've seen on a wide variety of camera lenses, some viewfinders and prisms and never on a digital back, though none are immune to the possibility. It only requires the right environment, exposure to the right type of spores and time to grow undisturbed with something to feed on over that time period.  Fungi are living cells that require an environment that will support them including organic matter for nourishment. It is not the glass itself that provides the needed environment, but microscopic organic material from the environment that is deposited and builds up, allowing spores in the air to attach and grow. Moisture is also needed to sustain life in the cells, which is why humid environments are ideal.

The owners and users of vulnerable equipment can take proper care and precautions to reduce the risk of fungal growth... or not. The use of desiccants to absorb moisture and storing equipment in a safe environment can certainly help. Cleaning the surface of lenses and sensors occasionally, to remove the invisible environmental films that build up, would also be a sound practice.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198910\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I had to have fungus removed from in between the AA filter and sensor on my 5D
Marc
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Marc McCalmont
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