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Author Topic: Lightroom colour space change??  (Read 12443 times)
sniper
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« on: May 29, 2008, 09:34:42 AM »
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I'm wondering if it's possible to change Lightrooms colour space.  The reason is simple when I'm working with Canon RAW files LR produces wonderfull colours and makes great jpegs, sadly when I'm working with Nikon jpegs the same isn't true.
My work is mostly weddings, I also PP a lot of work for other photographers, those who supply Nikon jpeg (the majority) cause me lots of problems in trying to get good colours looking nice, the final images look "flat" and dull, and seem to have a lot less tonal range, for want of a better discription.  I'm wondering if changing the colour space to something like SRGB will help (they are all saved out as SRGB, canon as well).  I can't get the photographers to change any settings, and couriously the images look a lot better when opened in other softwares like PS etc .
Any ideas on making things better would be welcome.  Thanks  Wayne
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Schewe
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2008, 10:21:53 AM »
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I'm wondering if it's possible to change Lightrooms colour space.
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Only upon export.
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sniper
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2008, 11:20:08 AM »
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Thought that might be the case.  Any idea why I'm getting such flat dull images from Nikon jpegs??
Thanks for the reply.   Wayne
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wolfnowl
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2008, 01:08:02 PM »
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from the Lightroom help file (emphasis mine, below)

About color management in Lightroom

Lightroom simplifies color management in your photographic workflow. You donít need to choose color settings or color profiles until you are ready to output your photos. To take advantage of Lightroom color management, you need to calibrate your computer monitor so that you are viewing accurate color. See Calibrate and profile your monitor.
Color spaces, color profiles, and tonal response curves

Itís not necessary for you to understand how Lightroom manages color internally, but the following information may be useful in your workflow.

A color space describes a range or gamut of colors. Various devices in your photographic workflow have different color gamuts in which they can record, store, edit, and output photos. A color profile defines a color space so that Lightroom knows how to manage and convert colors in your photo.

Raw photo files generally donít have embedded color profiles. For raw files, the Develop module assumes a wide color space based on the color values of the ProPhoto RGB color space. ProPhoto RGB encompasses most colors that cameras can record.

A color profile is also defined by a gamma value, or more accurately, its tonal response curve. The tonal response curve defines how tonal values in the raw image are mapped. To provide useful information in the histogram and RGB value display, Lightroom assumes a gamma value of approximately 2.2. More accurately, it uses a tonal response curve similar to the tonal response curve of the sRGB color space.

While Lightroom uses a tonal response curve to provide information for the histogram and RGB values, it manipulates the raw data before it is tone mapped. Working in this linear gamma avoids many of the artifacts that can result in working with a tone-mapped image.

The Library module stores previews in the Adobe RGB color space. These previews are also used when printing in draft mode.

For rendered files such as TIFF, JPEG, and PSD files, Lightroom uses the imageís embedded color profile to display the image, histogram, and color values. If the image doesnít have a profile, Lightroom assumes the sRGB profile, and the image may not look as expected on your monitor.
Output color profiles

When you print a photo in Lightroom, you can choose to convert the colors to more closely match the color space of the printer, paper, and ink you are using. For information on working with printer color profiles, see Set print color management.

Lightroom automatically exports images in the Slideshow and Web modules using the sRGB profile so that the color looks good on the majority of computer monitors.

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Mort54
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2008, 12:13:41 PM »
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...sadly when I'm working with Nikon jpegs the same isn't true.
I can't really help you, other than to say that it must be a setting in LR. My Nikon JPEGs look rich and vibrant in LR, and look identical to what I see when I open them in PS. I'm guessing you have a setting in LR that is preventing it from reading the jpeg's color space. I'm using the Mac version of LR - I don't know if that makes a difference.
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John S C
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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2008, 04:16:01 AM »
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As an experiment try taking some of the Nikon files into Photoshop and see if they have a profile attached. If they don't ( unlikely) then that may be the problem . However try changing the the colour space, to Adobe RGB and ProPhoto. re import into Lightroom and see if there is any improvement.

I don't have any other ideas except eliminating the obvious


John C
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DavidB
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« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2008, 08:55:40 AM »
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The reason is simple when I'm working with Canon RAW files LR produces wonderfull colours and makes great jpegs, sadly when I'm working with Nikon jpegs the same isn't true.
My work is mostly weddings, I also PP a lot of work for other photographers, those who supply Nikon jpeg (the majority) cause me lots of problems in trying to get good colours looking nice, the final images look "flat" and dull, and seem to have a lot less tonal range, for want of a better discription.  I'm wondering if changing the colour space to something like SRGB will help (they are all saved out as SRGB, canon as well).[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198741\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Are you dealing with JPEG files straight from Nikon cameras, or have the photographers done something to the files?  If their cameras are set to generate AdobeRGB files, the EXIF data should indicate that, and Photoshop and Lightroom should both pick it up (Photoshop has the "Ignore EXIF profile tag" in the File Handling preferences) even though the files don't actually have the AdobeRGB profile embedded.

In the absence of that EXIF tag, if Lightroom doesn't find an embedded profile it will assume the files are in sRGB.  If they were actually in AdobeRGB, the colours will definitely come out looking quite "flat".
If Lightroom was failing to recognise that EXIF tag in Nikon JPEGs, that would count as a bug.  If the photographers are doing something silly to their files before you get them, that would also count as a bug (but not in Lightroom!).

When you open the files in Photoshop you get good colours: what profile is Photoshop assigning to the image? (I always have the Profile displayed in the Info dialog to keep track of things like this)
If it's AdobeRGB, when you save the file from Photoshop and embed the profile then import that file into Lightroom the colours should look OK.  But if you didn't embed the profile, Lightroom might assume the profile was meant to be sRGB (try Assigning sRGB to the images in Photoshop to see if the colours resemble the problems you're seeing in Lightroom).  Of course, you shouldn't be saving files back to JPEG form if you're going to do extra work on them.  But it might be a useful experiment to diagnose your problem.

Working from RAW files from the same cameras, do you get reasonable colours?  You should.

Hopefully this helps!
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Nat Coalson
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« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2008, 01:15:38 PM »
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No need to worry about LRs color management. JPG, with or without embedded profiles, should not inherently pose a problem. It's all about finding the right LR Develop settings for each image type.

Are you applying Develop Settings on Import? Settings created for images from one camera won't necessarily adapt well to those from another camera, especially between RAW and JPG.

Check the Default Settings - are they the original LR defaults, or your own? Default settings will be applied if you are not applying your own preset.

You can also try applying the Zero'd preset first and adjust from there.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 01:27:05 PM by Nat Coalson » Logged

sniper
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« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2008, 02:08:38 PM »
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All the problem images are jpeg (from camera) unprocessed till I get them.  Theres no preset applied on import.  They are all srgb colour space (in the exif)   Thanks for the replies guys.  Wayne
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