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Author Topic: Tethered Speed Test: 1Ds Mark III vs P30+  (Read 18894 times)
clawery
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« on: May 29, 2008, 03:08:08 PM »
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Several people have asked how fast the Canon 1Ds Mark III works tethered, so we ran a test to see what it could do.  It is a test pitting a Mark III against a P30+ using C1 4.1.1 on a MacPro 3.0 Ghz 8 Core with 7GB of RAM.  

http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/comparisons/

PS.  Thanks for Doug Peterson for pulling this together.

Chris Lawery
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Sean H
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2008, 06:41:17 PM »
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Chris this is interesting. My questions are as follows:

1. Is 7 Gig of RAM really necessary?

2. Can either Capture One or whichever iteration of the the Mac OS you were using address that much RAM?

3. That configeration (8 cores) seems a tad extreme. I wonder what the specs would have been like on a more mundane (and common) dual or quad core mac?

Just curious

Sean
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 09:38:25 PM by Sean H » Logged
eronald
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2008, 09:13:16 PM »
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I think I'm missing something here. I own a P45+ and a Canon. The Canon can take a burst of shots untethered, fairly fast. The P45+ locks up for 2 seconds before it can take a shot again. Is there any way to take several  shots in a row faster with the Phase ?

Edmund
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Sean H
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2008, 09:38:44 PM »
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sorry I duplicated the post by accident - now deleted
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paul_jones
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2008, 02:52:12 AM »
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Several people have asked how fast the Canon 1Ds Mark III works tethered, so we ran a test to see what it could do.  It is a test pitting a Mark III against a P30+ using C1 4.1.1 on a MacPro 3.0 Ghz 8 Core with 7GB of RAM. 

http://www.captureintegration.com/tests/comparisons/

PS.  Thanks for Doug Peterson for pulling this together.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National  Atlanta / Miami
404-234-5195 | Cell 
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one of the assistants i work with showed me the tethered speed into canon software when running a macbookpro (just a 2.16) using boot camp and windows xp. it blew me away, it was taking less than 2 second to transfer and render a preview!
it was way faster than i have seen with my old p25 and C1 on a similar mac.

its a pity i only like osx. but,  i will have to get a copy of xp and try it myself.

chris, when is mk3 tethering coming? i havnt used C1 now for so long, been forced into using crap canon software, but the more i use canon, the more i need to get good at it and set up my systems around canon.

paul
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Doug Peterson
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2008, 08:49:40 AM »
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Sean, the reason we chose this tower for the test is simple: it is mac tower that send out for tower rentals. An 8-core with 7GB of ram is not needed for this workflow. The only time it would be "necessary" is simultaneous use of multiple ram-and-computationally-intensive programs (e.g. bridge + cs3 + capture one).

Paul, are you 100% sure that the XP-Canon-Tethered setup you saw was shooting RAW (i.e. was it raw+jpg, raw, or jpg)?

I would be interested academically in a side-by-side comparison for Mac vs XP. The mac implementation of the USB protocol is supposedly not as fast as the windows implementation. However, it would be an academic test only because 90%+ of our rentals and customers are Mac-only.

Also, you should check out your P25 with Capture One 4.1.1. If you have an intel-based mac the difference can be dramatic. In this case (P30+, IIQ Large, 8-core Mac Pro) the time from shutter-release to preview-shown was 2.6 times faster (2.6 sec vs. 7.1 sec) with Capture One 4.1.1 than with Capture One 3.7.8.

Edmund, this was a tethered test. However, as you observe the 1Ds Mark III can shoot bursts extremely fast (5fps) both tethered and untethered. The problem this test highlights is that when shooting tethered, if you exceed 12 frames in one minute your images start backing up and shooting crawls to a near stand still.

For example in the "shots per minute" test the Mark III managed 27 shutter releases, but only 13 had transfered to the computer and shown a preview. Clearing the remaining shots from the buffer took an additional 52 seconds. In the same test the P30+ managed 42 shutter releases, and never fell behind; that is, the last shot showed as a full preview in Capture One right after capture. So for short bursts the Canon can be much faster, but the buffer limit comes fast and hard.

Doug Peterson
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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2008, 02:09:11 PM »
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I think I'm missing something here. I own a P45+ and a Canon. The Canon can take a burst of shots untethered, fairly fast. The P45+ locks up for 2 seconds before it can take a shot again. Is there any way to take several  shots in a row faster with the Phase ?

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198898\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Edmund,
I have been able to shoot with a P45+ a bit quicker then the spec's say.
Setting it to IQ small really helps, then shooting tethered or to an Extreme IV card.
The first shot is always slower, then I think the back lets you shoot faster after the first black calibration. It seems plenty fast enough when shooting with flash systems.
over time I think the software has been allowing faster transfer as well.
I have not seen any quality issues at Low ISO's
nothing like the canon's though they just keep going until the buffer is full

I think part of the point of this thread is the Canon MKIII going to usb instead of firewire
and causing some tethered speed loss.
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paul_jones
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« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2008, 02:22:23 PM »
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Sean, the reason we chose this tower for the test is simple: it is mac tower that send out for tower rentals. An 8-core with 7GB of ram is not needed for this workflow. The only time it would be "necessary" is simultaneous use of multiple ram-and-computationally-intensive programs (e.g. bridge + cs3 + capture one).

Paul, are you 100% sure that the XP-Canon-Tethered setup you saw was shooting RAW (i.e. was it raw+jpg, raw, or jpg)?

I would be interested academically in a side-by-side comparison for Mac vs XP. The mac implementation of the USB protocol is supposedly not as fast as the windows implementation. However, it would be an academic test only because 90%+ of our rentals and customers are Mac-only.

Also, you should check out your P25 with Capture One 4.1.1. If you have an intel-based mac the difference can be dramatic. In this case (P30+, IIQ Large, 8-core Mac Pro) the time from shutter-release to preview-shown was 2.6 times faster (2.6 sec vs. 7.1 sec) with Capture One 4.1.1 than with Capture One 3.7.8.

Edmund, this was a tethered test. However, as you observe the 1Ds Mark III can shoot bursts extremely fast (5fps) both tethered and untethered. The problem this test highlights is that when shooting tethered, if you exceed 12 frames in one minute your images start backing up and shooting crawls to a near stand still.

For example in the "shots per minute" test the Mark III managed 27 shutter releases, but only 13 had transfered to the computer and shown a preview. Clearing the remaining shots from the buffer took an additional 52 seconds. In the same test the P30+ managed 42 shutter releases, and never fell behind; that is, the last shot showed as a full preview in Capture One right after capture. So for short bursts the Canon can be much faster, but the buffer limit comes fast and hard.

Doug Peterson
Technician, Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=198965\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the rocket speed transfer in windows xp has been discussed in depth in a few forums threads.

i only shoot raw, so i just tested that. usb on a apple running OSX is painfully slow- its not the camera or usb, its something in OSX slowing it down.
even just copying files to a usb drive is slow.
but using windows XP makes the usb run at a very high speed. it must be right up there with its "on paper" specs.


about the p25, that died a salt water death. i havnt replaced it (its sitting on your shelf as a paper weight). i cant see a see a big advantage with c4.1 yet- even if i had a phase back, until c4.1 works with canon properly.
having the back and canon working tethered seamlessly in one software was one of the biggest sellers for me.

now, im forced to use two softwares. and to be honest, leaf capture 11 has been a nicer piece of software as a single piece of software than both c1 3.7.8 and c1 4.1 (ive been using a leaf back lately). sure it doesnt have a lot of the features of c1, but its been bullet proof, fast  and it really is simple to use. i also like the fact it has very large previews.

paul
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Hans_de_Kort
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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2008, 02:27:14 PM »
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I'm shooting tethered 1DsmarkIII/Leopard with Windows XP in VMware Fusion.
EOS Utility drops the files in a shared folder in XP.
Lightroom in OsX gets the files by it's network connection between OsX en XP.
Lightroom can see the files in 3 secnds.
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« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2008, 02:47:08 PM »
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I'm shooting tethered 1DsmarkIII/Leopard with Windows XP in VMware Fusion.
EOS Utility drops the files in a shared folder in XP.
Lightroom in OsX gets the files by it's network connection between OsX en XP.
Lightroom can see the files in 3 secnds.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=199016\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


was it hard to setup?

i tried to setup xp on my mac, but had problems as the copy i had was a little old. but i thought i was limited to a 40gb partition (might have been 30). you system of of a shared file would not limit the space i guess?
can you flick from xp to osx quickly ?

paul
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« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2008, 02:52:41 PM »
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was it hard to setup?

i tried to setup xp on my mac, but had problems as the copy i had was a little old. but i thought i was limited to a 40gb partition (might have been 30). you system of of a shared file would not limit the space i guess?
can you flick from xp to osx quickly (without a restart?).

paul
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You don't need a partition with VMware; you will run a virtual machine, so no restart.
I only use 6GB for XP. Lightroom deletes the files in the shared folder so there is no limit of space.
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2008, 04:04:22 AM »
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Just for reference I use 1dsmIII tethered in vista64 and previews are between 2-3 seconds for dpp and 4-5s with lightroom.

Arnau.
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« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2008, 05:54:08 AM »
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Just for reference I use 1dsmIII tethered in vista64 and previews are between 2-3 seconds for dpp and 4-5s with lightroom.

Arnau.
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That's true, I get the same speed with XP in VMware with Lightroom in Leopard
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« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2008, 06:12:58 AM »
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Just for reference I use 1dsmIII tethered in vista64 and previews are between 2-3 seconds for dpp and 4-5s with lightroom.

Arnau.
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Where did you find a 64 bit version of the camera drivers for the MKIII?  I thought Canon has only published 32 bit Vista drivers?
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« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2008, 11:49:36 AM »
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That's true, I get the same speed with XP in VMware with Lightroom in Leopard
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Hans,

How long a usb cord can you run (powered?, unpowered?) and when you say preveiw time, is this full resolution previews?

What machine did you run this on?

Thank

JR
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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2008, 06:59:02 PM »
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Hans,

How long a usb cord can you run (powered?, unpowered?) and when you say preveiw time, is this full resolution previews?

What machine did you run this on?

Thank

JR
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james, i run the supplied 5m cord with a 3m extension, and there isnt a difference in speed when using osx. ill test this technique as soon as i get a copy of xp, and see if the cable changes anything.

paul
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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2008, 07:30:14 PM »
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james, i run the supplied 5m cord with a 3m extension, and there isnt a difference in speed when using osx. ill test this technique as soon as i get a copy of xp, and see if the cable changes anything.

paul
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Thanks Paul,

So that's approx. 26 feet.

I'm as curious about the length and the stability of a lot of captures as I am the preview time.

Are you going to run it to a hold folder in Lightroom?

Thanks

JR
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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2008, 08:06:24 PM »
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Thanks Paul,

So that's approx. 26 feet.

I'm as curious about the length and the stability of a lot of captures as I am the preview time.

Are you going to run it to a hold folder in Lightroom?

Thanks

JR
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ill try it, but im not too sharp with lightroom. i also find lightroom a little slow to clickthrough previews.
my assistants are pretty fast with canon software (even though i hate it), so maybe just use that. i just want to see a large preview asap when im shooting.

paul
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« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2008, 03:37:26 AM »
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ill try it, but im not too sharp with lightroom. i also find lightroom a little slow to clickthrough previews.
my assistants are pretty fast with canon software (even though i hate it), so maybe just use that. i just want to see a large preview asap when im shooting.

paul
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Paul,

The only thing that keeps me from shooting a lot of our commercial work with the Canon is the tethering, because with the MK2 connected to C-1 the previews are small and then there is the downside of not seeing the image on the back of the camera and the computer at the same time.

We tether for a number of reasons and it's usually project specfic.  Sometimes it's to name/rename files, or background processing, or to set a look in the computer and always to give everyone a decent view of the image.

A canon that will tether fast and allow straight importation to lightroom would cover most of this territory as long as it's stable and fast.

For commercial work I would love to get out of the workflow of producing jpegs for web galleries.

A 4 days advertising shoot can take up to 24 hours to adjust, tweak and process jpegs if there are thousands of images.

Personally I miss the days of the 1ds1, as the back end workflow was a snap.

I had the camera dialed in for color and look and all we did was just drop the medium jpegs into a web gallery and upload them.  Since they were already in SRGB it was just stupid easy to edit, make a web gallery and upload the files.  We use to laugh about it and had great fun doing it as I could just use a laptop, set in a restaurant or coffee shop in almost any place in the world and while having an espresso put the galleries up effortlessly.

Going to medium format changed that and though C-1 is fast in processing and stable, having to produce a jpeg from a raw file from 6,000 images has become a burden.

BTW:  When you tether the mark 3 can you see the preview on the back of the camera?

Thanks.

JR
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« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2008, 03:55:13 AM »
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I just used the supplied CD (solution disk V16) that came with the camera and everything is working ok. I don't know about the drivers but the eos utility is a 32bit application.

Arnau



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Where did you find a 64 bit version of the camera drivers for the MKIII?  I thought Canon has only published 32 bit Vista drivers?
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