Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 3 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: What 39 Mp back to choose ?  (Read 12550 times)
Jeff74400
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


WWW
« on: June 07, 2008, 10:44:55 AM »
ReplyReply

Hi,
I use actually a 1DsIII but I am looking to invest in a MF 39Mp DB for landscape photography and I hesitate between a P45 (or P45+) and a Hassy 39Mp.
My main question is the IQ of both 28mm from Hasselblad and Mamiya because I use wide angles in most of my work.
What combo will be the best, HD39 + Hassy 28mm or Mamiya AFDII + Phaseone P45 + Mamiya 28mm ?
Thank's for your advice
Jeff
Logged

Graham Mitchell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2282



WWW
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2008, 10:52:23 AM »
ReplyReply

If you want to use the Hasselblad 28mm lens you will have to use the Hasselblad back. Other backs have been locked out.

I would suggest comparing 39MP results with the 33MP backs too before spending this much money.

I would also suggest looking into a compact view camera with a 24mm or 35mm lens, if wide angle is important to you. The view camera lenses are usually a step up in quality, and you have the added bonus of shift/tilt capability.

Another very interesting possibility for landscape shooters:

http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/...8/d925/f934.cfm

For purely wide angle landscape use, you won't get the best image quality from a medium format camera.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 10:54:39 AM by foto-z » Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2008, 10:59:44 AM »
ReplyReply

That's exactly what I would recommend too.

Take your time and more importantly compare all existing digital systems and cameras available. A compact view camera would certainly make more sense and offer better possibilities: there will be situation, even with a 28mm, where you will need a little shift, or adjust the sharpness plane. Think carefully and don't rush.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
If you want to use the Hasselblad 28mm lens you will have to use the Hasselblad back. Other backs have been locked out.

I would suggest comparing 39MP results with the 33MP backs too before spending this much money.

I would also suggest looking into a compact view camera with a 24mm or 35mm lens, if wide angle is important to you. The view camera lenses are usually a step up in quality, and you have the added bonus of shift/tilt capability.

Another very interesting possibility for landscape shooters:

http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/...8/d925/f934.cfm

For purely wide angle landscape use, you won't get the best image quality from a medium format camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200282\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Khun_K
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 349


WWW
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2008, 11:19:13 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
That's exactly what I would recommend too.

Take your time and more importantly compare all existing digital systems and cameras available. A compact view camera would certainly make more sense and offer better possibilities: there will be situation, even with a 28mm, where you will need a little shift, or adjust the sharpness plane. Think carefully and don't rush.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200285\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The difference between a 39 mb and 33 mb is less than the quality and preference one is to find out  between the backs.  H3D with the new Phocus software is a good improvement, but pretty much lock itself up with other system or on a view camera platform, unless a separate power source/HDD bank is connected.  Hasselblad pretty much develop all the digital corrections along with their own system on the Phocus, not anything else, although it is still useful.  If one is looking for a flexible system, tethered or just the back on battery power, to look beyond just the pixel count may be a good idea.
Logged
MarkKay
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 587


WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2008, 12:22:31 PM »
ReplyReply

I have the hasselblad H3DII-31 and I think this is a marvelous set up.  The 28mm HC lens is superb in terms of lack of distortion and image sharpness. The downside is that it is reported the 31 back suffers from severe color casts if used on a view or technical camera.  The reason is the microlenses. However, as a result, the iso800 images have less noise than the 1DsmkIII (with no NR)  and are super sharp.   With the next release of phocus, we should be at iso1600. If you plan to consider using on a view camera, you should consider the 39meg back.  It is true that you will need the imagebankII to power the back.  The nice thing is that while on the hassy camera, you have one battery for the camera and back. The HC lenses are leaf shutters, which some people like.   I used to use a Leaf aptus 65 and Hassy H2.  I was impressed with the images from Leaf as well but this earlier model back did not do well at higher isos and that was a consideration for me. The nice thing about the hassy system is the glass camera and back are all integrated and allow for digital corrections in the software.  The downside again is the fact that there are currently no lenses that allow for shifts or tilts.
There are others who have discussed ergonomics and other issues -- the importance of which will vary from person to person. One of the hardest things for me to get used to is the mirror slap with the MF cameras. The hassy has CF options that all for differential delays between shutter release and mirror flip-- which is quite useful at times. However, I like the ease of just using mirror lockup, which I use more than 75% of the time anyway.

In my mind no one system represents the perfect solution. There has been a lot written here and other sites that might help you make your decision.  


Quote
The difference between a 39 mb and 33 mb is less than the quality and preference one is to find out  between the backs.  H3D with the new Phocus software is a good improvement, but pretty much lock itself up with other system or on a view camera platform, unless a separate power source/HDD bank is connected.  Hasselblad pretty much develop all the digital corrections along with their own system on the Phocus, not anything else, although it is still useful.  If one is looking for a flexible system, tethered or just the back on battery power, to look beyond just the pixel count may be a good idea.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200288\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Logged
Jeff74400
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


WWW
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2008, 12:46:20 PM »
ReplyReply

Wide angle is important for me but I need a system that allow me to take picture from 28mm to 300mm. So the roundshot is not an option.
I have read that the Mamiya 28mm as some corner softness, is it true...?
The advantage of the Hassy 28mm seems to be the possibility to use a polarising filter...?
Best regard's and thank's for your help.
Jeff

My Webpage
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 12:51:02 PM by Jeff74400 » Logged

josayeruk
Guest
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2008, 01:02:28 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Wide angle is important for me but I need a system that allow me to take picture from 28mm to 300mm. So the roundshot is not an option.
I have read that the Mamiya 28mm as some corner softness, is it true...?
The advantage of the Hassy 28mm seems to be the possibility to use a polarising filter...?
Best regard's and thank's for your help.
Jeff

My Webpage
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've rented the Hass 28 a few times and have had no probs with corner sharpness.  

You could take a look at Nick Rains review on this site as he is coming from your perspective...

[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/h3d-review.shtml]http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/came...3d-review.shtml[/url]

..and there is a new Hass digital forum which has a section for prospective purchasers.  The members are all owners...

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/came...3d-review.shtml

http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/

Jo S.x
Logged
eronald
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 3972



WWW
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2008, 01:06:27 PM »
ReplyReply

If you're just going for wide you should get a Cambo or Alpa with a Phase or Sinar or Leaf back - I don't think you'll get that much sharpness from the Mamiya 28.  People have been citing problems with samples of this lens. The Hassy may be sharper. The Schneider etc solution seems to deliver consistent quality for those that use it.

Edmund

Quote
Wide angle is important for me but I need a system that allow me to take picture from 28mm to 300mm. So the roundshot is not an option.
I have read that the Mamiya 28mm as some corner softness, is it true...?
The advantage of the Hassy 28mm seems to be the possibility to use a polarising filter...?
Best regard's and thank's for your help.
Jeff

My Webpage
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200305\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 01:08:09 PM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
STEVE K
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 39


« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2008, 01:39:35 PM »
ReplyReply

Jeff, amazing stuff on your website
Logged
STEVE K
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 39


« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2008, 01:45:23 PM »
ReplyReply

Someone else will probably be able to answer this, how well do these systems handle the extreme conditions in which you appear to shoot in.
Logged
Graham Mitchell
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2282



WWW
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2008, 02:41:41 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Wide angle is important for me but I need a system that allow me to take picture from 28mm to 300mm. So the roundshot is not an option.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200305\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ok, then perhaps you need to use the same digital back on two platforms. You can still use a Cambo or Alpa for the best possible wide performance, then add a medium format SLR for the normal to telephoto lenses.

What are you shooting with 300mm? Still landscape?
Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
abiggs
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 544



WWW
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2008, 02:42:31 PM »
ReplyReply

I think about it this way. Are you planning on using 28mm to 300mm on the same shoot? If so, I would consider the SLR options alone (Hassy, Mamyia/Phase, Sinar). If you will do wide angle work that is separate from others, I would put some serious thought into going the view camera route. Why? Because the results speak for themselves. I recently jumped on board on the Mamiya platform, and only went as wide as the 35mm. If I am doing wide angle work exlusively, I will likely go with a 2 or 3 lens view camera setup. Something like a 28mm, 35mm, 47mm or 58mm. I just don't know. But I have tested some different setups, and I have been amazed at the quality of these files with good Rodenstock or Schneider glass on a view camera.
Logged

Andy Biggs
http://www.andybiggs.com
Africa Photo Safaris | Workshops | Fine Art Prints
jecxz
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 377


WWW
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2008, 02:58:46 PM »
ReplyReply

I suggest the H3DII39, which has a a lens set from 28mm to 300mm, or 500mm with the 1.7x -- which produces sharp results. Remember, if you're stating "300mm" coming from 35mm, 300mm is not the same in MF.

The H system is a complete system, has been through its paces and is backed by a company that takes care of its customers, trust me, I know, I have had first hand experience with that statement.

As stated, demo every system you can, make your comparison, then decide. I'm sure you'll discover the best system for you and your photography. Good luck.
Logged

josayeruk
Guest
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2008, 04:39:03 PM »
ReplyReply

Don't forget you can remove the back from the H3DII and fit it to Cambo, Alpa, Sinar etc etc.
Logged
jonstewart
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 435


« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2008, 05:03:54 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Don't forget you can remove the back from the H3DII and fit it to Cambo, Alpa, Sinar etc etc.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200337\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I second the idea of getting a view cam for wide work

Have a look at the Silvestri Bicam, as well as those that Jo mentioned above.

Cheers
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 05:04:40 PM by jonstewart » Logged

Jon Stewart

If only life were so simple...
j.miller
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 160


« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2008, 08:34:53 PM »
ReplyReply

In addition to the H3DII-39, which would offer tremendous capability in conjunction with the HC-D 28mm lens, as well as practical functionality on a view camera / technical camera, Hasselblad's CF (or CFII) Series back could be another consideration.

The new H2F, in conjunction with the current CF-Series or CFII-Series backs will allow you to use and properly correct the HC-D 28mm. The CF or CFII backs also give you portable, on-board battery operation when the back is mounted on any camera, including view camera / technical camera. On-board battery capability is not possible with the H3DII back, which is why you would need either the ImageBank II (with L-type battery) or bus-power via FireWire (ie. tethered). The H2F / CFII combination would give capability with the HC-D 28mm lens, as well as more elegant portable capability with cameras such as the ALPA 12 series, or the various digital specific view cameras (ie. ARCA-SWISS, Linhof, Plaubel, etc.).

As with all systems, there will always be some comprise for certain capabilities, which is exactly why the H3DII-39 would be ideal in conjunction with various HC-Series lenses, and "not as ideal" when used in the field with a view camera / technical camera. On the flip side, the H2F / CFII combination will not provide all same capability, image quality, functionality, and control as the H3DII-39, yet will be "ideal" when using the back on various camera platforms such a view camera or technical, super-wide camera.

I would certainly look at the various options out there, and investigate them all in detail. As you can tell by this thread, there are numerous options, all of which have merit, and capability depending on your specific needs. A qualified dealer should be able to help you narrow you options down, and go into the various systems and configurations in detail.

Feel free to contact me directly if I can be of help in your decision making process.

Regards,

Jordan Miller
« Last Edit: September 08, 2010, 09:56:21 AM by j.miller » Logged
NicholasR
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 81


« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2008, 08:52:43 PM »
ReplyReply

I own the H3D mk1, and do a bit of landscape photography with it.  I also climb, drag it into the backcountry, and do the sorts of things with it that you probably would.

Thoughts:

It's a heavy camera and system.  Long lenses especially, but compared to my old pentax 645 it's outrageous how big the lenses are.  It drags me down when I go out with the strong boys and am trying to keep up.

Lack of internal battery really bothers me.  For extended trips in the backcountry I'd really love to get an alpa or horseman SWD, but needing another expensive, moderately heavy component (the imagetank or whatever its called) to power the back is a bummer.   This is probably my #1 complaint with the H3d back, and what will eventually make me switch.

I don't consider it to be an especially rugged camera, and it certainly will not stand up to abuse, or at least the kind of abuse the wilderness can spring on you.  Then again, I broke a 1Ds, and haven't broken this, so its just kind of luck.  I've also had issues shooting in the winter with the camera locking up and not functioning correctly under -10 Celsius.  

The 28mm is absolutely fantastic.  I've never shot with a digital camera & the large format lens lines, but its really as good as I could ask for.  Other lenses I have in the series (80, 210 & 1.7x) also have been outstanding.

As an all around platform, one day shooting architecture, another day shooting landscape, then doing art copy/reproduction the next, it absolutely shines.  It may not be the absolute best in any one endeavor, but it really is flexible.

Beautiful work!
-Nick
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 08:57:42 PM by NicholasR » Logged
rhsu
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 146


« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2008, 07:32:28 AM »
ReplyReply

I went through this exercise and opted for the H3DII-39mp kit (DSLR).  ONLY with 20/20 hindsight, the back couldn't be used with my Cambo or any other wide-angle view camera because it lacks the power source to run the digital back.  An imagebank II isn't quite the solution due to the cost.  I've just discovered a firewire power source at a fraction of the cost (US$99).   However, if you opt for the 39mp that has its own power source (Sony battery) that clips to the bottom of the back, then you have the future options with view camera wide angle lenses (and the images are a killer)!  Unfortunately, the latter has no package deal compare to the kit!

The 31mp back I believe has "micro lenses", similar to 35mm DSLR.  So in wide-angle application, it may/will cause interesting colour behaviour as lights are coming in at greater angle (albeit the major downfall with 35mm DSLR wide angle application).

Phase is also good, but correctly so that you are locked out of the HC 28mm lens.  Until Hasselblad waits up to themselves that photographers also like to use the backs with view cameras wide-angle photography, Phase/Leaf will clean up in this niche market.
Logged
Jeff74400
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 19


WWW
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2008, 09:21:59 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Ok, then perhaps you need to use the same digital back on two platforms. You can still use a Cambo or Alpa for the best possible wide performance, then add a medium format SLR for the normal to telephoto lenses

What are you shooting with 300mm? Still landscape?


Yes landscape or climbing  from 28mm to 300mm (in MF) (same as what  I am doing with 35mm gear from 20mm to 200mm).
But I am most of the time in high altitude environment, with cold and sometime windy/snowy wheather so I need a versatile and strong system.
My Canon 1DsIII is very good but I need very good files for big enlargment; up to 150 cm wide sometime.
Sometime I stitch 4 or 5 pictures to get a large file but it is not every time possible (photography from a helicopter for example).
So if the 39mp Hasselblad as some troubles in very cold conditions, what about a Mamiya AFD II + P45 + Mamiya 28mm (and some other lens) combination ?
My Webpage
Logged

eronald
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Posts: 3972



WWW
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2008, 11:15:34 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Yes landscape or climbing  from 28mm to 300mm (in MF) (same as what  I am doing with 35mm gear from 20mm to 200mm).
But I am most of the time in high altitude environment, with cold and sometime windy/snowy wheather so I need a versatile and strong system.
My Canon 1DsIII is very good but I need very good files for big enlargment; up to 150 cm wide sometime.
Sometime I stitch 4 or 5 pictures to get a large file but it is not every time possible (photography from a helicopter for example).
So if the 39mp Hasselblad as some troubles in very cold conditions, what about a Mamiya AFD II + P45 + Mamiya 28mm (and some other lens) combination ?
My Webpage
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200422\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Mamiya is known as a "value" camera - it is not known for extreme sharpness however, the Phase backs will I believe have no problems working in the cold. Alpa TC and Schneider is tough and precise but you have no reflex view.

Frankly if extreme versatility and robustness is what you want nothing can beat the Canon. Many Canon guys have the Zeiss Distagon 21mm lens which outresolves any wide  made by Canon, and there are also some interesting Leica lenses which can be adapted to Canon.

There's a reason why Canon and Nikon have been so successful, and that's robustness and versatility - I think in any craft one needs to be able to choose the tool for a job, and in your case MF is going to be a liability out in the field.

Edmund
« Last Edit: June 08, 2008, 11:27:19 AM by eronald » Logged

Edmund Ronald, Ph.D. 
Pages: [1] 2 3 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad