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Author Topic: 20" Printer  (Read 4039 times)
dwdallam
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« on: June 25, 2008, 03:40:19 AM »
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What are the choices for an ink jet printer that will print 20" prints as well or better than traditional emulsions? I know Epson has lead in this area. Do they have a new printer out now, or are we still waiting on the updated version of their 20" model? Is Epson the best option for the money vs. quality of the print?

Edit:
I should add also: Compared to a Noritsu 3000 series minilabs, like what Costco uses, how would the Epson 24" printer stack up as far a quality goes? I'm not talking about how teh unit is operated, but, rather, the best possible print each unit could make all things being optimal.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 12:39:04 AM by dwdallam » Logged

langier
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2008, 11:55:14 AM »
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I don't think anyone makes a 20 inch printer though I may be wrong. The sizes seem to be on either side at 17 and 24 inches. 20 inch roll paper is more limited in surfaces and the costs nearly the same as the 24.

On the 17 inch front both Canon and Epson have good stuff. Epson makes a sheet and roll 4880 and a sheet-only 3800. Both produce great prints and integrate with the same ink sets at their larger printers.

On the 24 inch+ printers which are really best suited for roll paper though most will do a single sheet at a time, HP, Canon and Epson have printers that produce excellent results. Unless you are into splitting hairs and looking at things with a loupe, once on the wall, most photos will look great and nobody will care what you used to print it. Each has a slightly different color gamut and different ways of putting ink to paper.

I've only used the Epson printers for the past 10 years and currently have four, from a 13 inch 2200 to a 42 inch 9800. The prints I produce today are better than the dye transfer, cibachrome or c-prints that I produced over more than 30 years, IMO.

Your best bet is to talk to your friends, have them run a file, give the printer a whorl and see what works best for you.
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Larry Angier
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dwdallam
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« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2008, 06:15:45 AM »
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I checked the Epson website and it looks like they ahve their new lineup out. the problem is the 24" printer is 4000 US.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Pro...UseBVCookie=yes

It's the 7880 at 3000 and the Color burst model will set you back 4, 000.


The 4880 17" wide is around 2000, and there are three models from 2000-2400.

I figure if I'm going to spend 2400 on a printer I may as well go 600 more and get the 24 inch model.  I'll have to research to understand the differences between the models. I hope I only need the standard models.
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colinm
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« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2008, 09:52:17 AM »
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If you don't know you need the "Extra Crippleware Edition" models for some completely inexplicable reason, all you need is the standard model.

Pro Edition includes a neutered version of ColorBurst RIP, Portrait Edition includes a neutered version of the Windows-only ExpressDigital Darkroom. There is no physical difference between editions of a printer.
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Colin
dwdallam
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« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2008, 12:53:08 AM »
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If you don't know you need the "Extra Crippleware Edition" models for some completely inexplicable reason, all you need is the standard model.

Pro Edition includes a neutered version of ColorBurst RIP, Portrait Edition includes a neutered version of the Windows-only ExpressDigital Darkroom. There is no physical difference between editions of a printer.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204778\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It's just the software that is it? If so, that's really good to know. I've been using Costco with profiles and of course NO operator adjustments, and as others report, their Noritsu machines are good, but I hate dealing a department store and having to upload them using their inept web interface. With the Epson I can also use whatever paper I choose. I'm just hoping that the print quality is at least as good as the laser emulsion of the Noritsu 3000 series labs. At least the color gamut will be richer. But Costco is updating the Noritsu machines, which means they will then have a better gamut too.

Has anyone compared a good Noritsu 3.x print to an Epson 4800 series?

Still 3, 000 is a lot of bucks.  I wonder what the cost per page is for a 12 x 18 print on average using the 4880?
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Tim Gray
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« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2008, 01:07:09 PM »
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The 4880 still has the ink switching issue, so that needs to be factored into the cost.  I recall someone suggesting about $50 for a switch from matte to glossy since all 8 lines are being purged.
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peteh
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« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2008, 07:27:34 PM »
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The 4880 still has the ink switching issue, so that needs to be factored into the cost. I recall someone suggesting about $50 for a switch from matte to glossy since all 8 lines are being purged.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205040\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ever think about an Epson R2400. 13x19.Your not quite at 20inch. prints but close.It will take roll paper.
I have one and a 24inch HP Z3100 ps GP. The Epson loves to EAT ink and you have to switch matt and gloss inks.The HP is BIG, like twin baby coffins long.Like 48 5/8 inches long.BUT it is SO good with ink. I love the printer other than the size.I still have the original 69 ml carts with it and have printed 300 feet of ( varies  in print width ) of 24 inch roll paper.I lost one Out of Paper Sensor, most likely my fault because of being in a hurry. The HP is over kill for me.But it does way nice prints. Look into waiting until Epson or Canon or HP comes out with new printers.HP has been very good to me.On the HP printer I have used 5 or so papers in it and some non HP and have not had ANY roller marks YET! I bought it last August 2007.
Me personally love HP printers, I have maybe 7 of them over the years, not one,has ever died. The Epson I have had......clog. and love to EAT INK.I cannot say anything about any Epson past the R2400.The 2400 got turned into a B&W printer only with CIS from Niagara IV and Cone inks.The 2400 never clogged that much though .Even after sitting for 6 months.BUT IT ATE INK ,BAD!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 07:39:02 PM by peteh » Logged
dwdallam
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« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2008, 02:59:37 AM »
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How is the 4880 on ink? I can't image Epson printers would be ink hogs comped to their competitors.

So the 13 x 19 inch can print 19 inches wide? I thought it was limited to 13.


It would be nice to be able to do 24 inch length prints though. Those are huge.

I have read the 2400 is an ink hog, but the 38+ series is not.

Also, the new head technology is right around the corner and at twice the speed of even the new x880 printers released last summer, and a non swapping ink mechanism. Maybe I should wait?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 04:39:30 AM by dwdallam » Logged

claskin
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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2008, 06:28:50 AM »
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So the 13 x 19 inch can print 19 inches wide? I thought it was limited to 13.
It would be nice to be able to do 24 inch length prints though. Those are huge.

I have read the 2400 is an ink hog, but the 38+ series is not.

Also, the new head technology is right around the corner and at twice the speed of even the new x880 printers released last summer, and a non swapping ink mechanism. Maybe I should wait?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205192\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You are correct that the 2400 (and 2880) are limited to 13 inch print width. The 3800 is much better on ink switching at 17 inches wide. Less wasted ink in that model. The xx80 series are still a problem in that the PK/MK ink switch wastes too much ink. Frustrating I agree. If you stick to either glossy or matte then clearly there is no problem with the ink switching issue but you have to be comfortable with one "class" of paper.

Carl
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Carl Laskin
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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2008, 01:26:03 PM »
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Dwdallam,
    In one sense the decision is really simple. For what your taking about I think an Epson would be a good choice, although you might also consider the HP z3100. Aside from that you need to decide how big you want to print, if you want bigger than 17" then you get the 7880. If you want a 17" printer then you need to decided how many prints you want to make, if the answer is a lot you go with the 4880, the durability, ink costs and speed are all better than the 3800. If your on a budget and want to easily switch between matte and glossy papers the 3800 is your printer. I wouldn't bother with the smaller 13" printers the ink costs are way to high if your printing a lot.
    The other issue to consider here is workflow, a word that I get to use a lot. I imagine the costco workflow goes something like this...1.Drop off CD  2.Pick up prints. Doing your own printing can result in arguably better quality prints in terms of color gamut. You may still see a bit of bronzing from the X880 series printers on glossy media, but aside from that I dont think quality will be much of a factor, people will simply see a photograph of your work and judge the work based on the content rather than the method of production...which I think is how it's supposed to work. Any way, generating good quality prints in large quantities can be some work. If you want to be able to drop make 20 prints at a time and have all print automatically I would strongly suggest a RIP. The printer is kind of like a really nice car, but without a good driver (RIP) it's potential is somewhat limited for certain tasks. If your intent is to mostly print at 16X20 or 24X36 or some size that results in only a few prints at a time you should have no problem printing out of photoshop through the epson printer driver.
    As far as waiting...there is always something around the bend. In this case its going to be the X900 series printers. They will add more inks and speed and a spectro and better ink switching...and demand a bigger price tag as well. If your intent is to create an inhouse photo lab, and have the business to support it, then the new printers offer some interesting improvements. That said I think you will be happy with a 7880 or 4880 assuming that you print the majority of your work on either glossy or matte paper and don't switch often, and you don't have a problem printing to a standard size roll,(16",17",24") If your content with 16X20's the 4880 would serve you well.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
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Julian Mussi

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JeffKohn
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« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2008, 07:25:31 PM »
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If you want to print 16x24, 16x20, 11x17 I think the Epson 3800 would be a good choice and is pretty economical (it costs about the same as the 2400 if you factor in the extra ink you receive in your initial purchase). Black ink swap only uses a few ml, as opposed to flushing away $50 or more like on the 48xx or 78xx.

The achilles heel of the 3800 is the complete lack of support for roll paper or page lengths longer than 37". If you wan to print panos, forget it.
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dwdallam
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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2008, 02:22:53 AM »
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If you want to print 16x24, 16x20, 11x17 I think the Epson 3800 would be a good choice and is pretty economical (it costs about the same as the 2400 if you factor in the extra ink you receive in your initial purchase). Black ink swap only uses a few ml, as opposed to flushing away $50 or more like on the 48xx or 78xx.

The achilles heel of the 3800 is the complete lack of support for roll paper or page lengths longer than 37". If you wan to print panos, forget it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205383\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not being able to print panos would suck, and it's one reason I like the ideas of roll paper.
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dwdallam
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« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2008, 02:37:45 AM »
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Dwdallam,
In one sense the decision is really simple. For what your taking about I think an Epson would be a good choice, although you might also consider the HP z3100. Aside from that you need to decide how big you want to print, if you want bigger than 17" then you get the 7880. If you want a 17" printer then you need to decided how many prints you want to make, if the answer is a lot you go with the 4880, the durability, ink costs and speed are all better than the 3800. If your on a budget and want to easily switch between matte and glossy papers the 3800 is your printer. I wouldn't bother with the smaller 13" printers the ink costs are way to high if your printing a lot.
The other issue to consider here is workflow, a word that I get to use a lot. I imagine the costco workflow goes something like this...1.Drop off CD 2.Pick up prints. Doing your own printing can result in arguably better quality prints in terms of color gamut. You may still see a bit of bronzing from the X880 series printers on glossy media, but aside from that I dont think quality will be much of a factor, people will simply see a photograph of your work and judge the work based on the content rather than the method of production...which I think is how it's supposed to work. Any way, generating good quality prints in large quantities can be some work. If you want to be able to drop make 20 prints at a time and have all print automatically I would strongly suggest a RIP. The printer is kind of like a really nice car, but without a good driver (RIP) it's potential is somewhat limited for certain tasks. If your intent is to mostly print at 16X20 or 24X36 or some size that results in only a few prints at a time you should have no problem printing out of photoshop through the epson printer driver.
As far as waiting...there is always something around the bend. In this case its going to be the X900 series printers. They will add more inks and speed and a spectro and better ink switching...and demand a bigger price tag as well. If your intent is to create an inhouse photo lab, and have the business to support it, then the new printers offer some interesting improvements. That said I think you will be happy with a 7880 or 4880 assuming that you print the majority of your work on either glossy or matte paper and don't switch often, and you don't have a problem printing to a standard size roll,(16",17",24") If your content with 16X20's the 4880 would serve you well.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=205281\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'd be the only one in my area for 200 miles with a printer capable of printing like the 7880 does. I've already had several people say they would have me print for them, but not a lot. It would be a way to offset the initial cost.

I'd like to be able to print 20x30, but nothing bigger unless I got a specific request. I would not even want to attempt larger than the 7880 is capable, at 24 x 36--or longer. Even prints at 20x30 are too hard to handle witout a proper (large) location and handling equipment. I've dented plenty of 20x30s trying to frame them.

I really don't like glossy media anyway. I do like matte finishes. And there is somewhat of a paper revolution going on right now. I'd like to print on several different types of media without having to waste that sort of ink. That's almost cripple ware in my humble opinion.

If the x900 printer series with the better inks and heads is replacing the 880 series, won't they be about the same price? The market will only bare so much. Even if they were a few (200-300) more, that would be worth the new technology. You'd save that much on ink changes.

The standard roll size is fine.

LOL, yeah the Costco workflow is more like this: Upload yuor images and tell them "no adjustments." After you get done with their idiot web interface and you jsut shot your dog, you remeber that you made a mistake, but there is no way to correct it. (The don't charge you for it, so no big deal, except the workers sneer at you each time you tell them you don't want something). You pick up the prints the very next day, and they look good you know, except, wait, tehre is a thin slightly visible white line running horizontally. Yes, the operator admits they are having some difficulties. They're pretty nice about that and understand. Then you resubmit them and drive back down again. Now you show up again after using their newest profile from Dry Creek (yeah they profile all their printers) and you see that your yellow is printing as green because the profile they submitted was somehow wrong. You don't say anything because they look at you with both eyes rolling in their head opposite directions. SO now you print using Adobe 1998 for six months until a new profile gets submitted. You see the problem. Most of the time they are good. I just hate doing that. I want to be able to print while I go to bed and have the prints there in my computer room when I wake up. And I like being in total control of the process.

I would just hope that the 7880 or it's predecessor will print images as well as the Noritsu 3120 will, although it will only print 12 x 18 max. But that as big as I go anyway unless it's 20 x 30. Maybe I'll go 13 x 19? Actually 12 x 18 is a good size. It fits in smaller houses and larger ones too.

Thanks for your information and any other tips are appreciated.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 02:38:07 AM by dwdallam » Logged

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