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Author Topic: The PhaseOne/Mamiya AFDIII review  (Read 57315 times)
amsp
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« on: June 30, 2008, 04:09:26 AM »
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Thanks Michael, I enjoyed reading your review, although I was left wondering a bit about some critical improvements. How was the AF? compared to the AFDII, and the competition. Was the selectable AF-points useful or useless? Has the shutter lag been dealt with? Maybe you could elaborate a little in this thread or update your review.

Cheers
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2008, 10:10:24 AM »
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Hi,
On my blog www.doorhof.nl/blog I have a small review on the AFD/III comparing it to the AFD/II.

Greetings,
Frank
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amsp
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2008, 10:14:32 AM »
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Hi,
On my blog www.doorhof.nl/blog I have a small review on the AFD/III comparing it to the AFD/II.

Greetings,
Frank
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204496\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yepp, read it thanks.
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clawery
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2008, 10:53:38 AM »
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Here is a link to the review:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/.../phase645.shtml


Chris Lawery
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chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National Atlanta/Miami
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amsp
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2008, 11:52:40 AM »
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Hi,
On my blog www.doorhof.nl/blog I have a small review on the AFD/III comparing it to the AFD/II.

Greetings,
Frank
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204496\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
By the way, I was surprised to see in your review that the AF is noisier, I thought it was supposed to be more quiet according to the info from P1?
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Snook
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2008, 11:54:44 AM »
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Here is a link to the review:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/.../phase645.shtml
Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National Atlanta/Miami
404-234-5195 | Cell 
Sign up for our Newsletter | Read Our Latest Newsletter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204510\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
We were told form the beginning that the "new" leaf shutter lens WOULD work on the AFDII..
Now it sounds as if they are going back on that..
The review clearly states that even on the new AFDIII they will have to be sent back to mamiya for firmware upgrade...?
What about the AFDII?
Thanks for any correction on this, if there is any...:+}
Snook
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kdphotography
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2008, 12:25:42 PM »
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By the way, I was surprised to see in your review that the AF is noisier, I thought it was supposed to be more quiet according to the info from P1?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204517\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

From Michael's review:

"The camera I used was the first off the assembly line with final production firmware, and was provided for testing by Kevin Raber, Phase One's Marketing VP for North America. (I am told that pre-production cameras that were circulated during May and early June did not have final firmware, and any testing of them done should therefore be discounted. The production cameras are apparently much faster responding and smoother). "
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michael
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« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2008, 12:47:52 PM »
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The new cameras will definately have to go in for updating to support leaf lenses when they start to appear. The interface design is not yet final.

I do not believe that AFDII's will be able to use the new leaf lenses. Apparently one of the big changes to the AFDIII brought about by Phase One's involvement in the project, is that the camera is now to a large extent firmware driven rather than using dedicated circuitry. This would appear to make upgrading the previous AFDII problematic.

Michael

Quote
We were told form the beginning that the "new" leaf shutter lens WOULD work on the AFDII..
Now it sounds as if they are going back on that..
The review clearly states that even on the new AFDIII they will have to be sent back to mamiya for firmware upgrade...?
What about the AFDII?
Thanks for any correction on this, if there is any...:+}
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Snook
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2008, 01:03:44 PM »
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The new cameras will definately have to go in for updating to support leaf lenses when they start to appear. The interface design is not yet final.

I do not believe that AFDII's will be able to use the new leaf lenses. Apparently one of the big changes to the AFDIII brought about by Phase One's involvement in the project, is that the camera is now to a large extent firmware driven rather than using dedicated circuitry. This would appear to make upgrading the previous AFDII problematic.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204530\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the extra information Michael..
I hope your wrong...:+} JK
Looks like a new body and one of the leafs are going to be back up in the 8-12,000 range just for body and one lens again...?
Bummer....
The latest Mamiya lens was well over 4,000 , I can only imagine leaf shutter (German Company)
new glass "D" to be pretty Costly...
Is a Zoom Leaf shutter possible..?
would hate to have to buy more than one lens at those prices.
That might help those 35 vs. MFDB threads in Favor of 35mm (Unfortunately) For me.
In any case thank you for the review and the Post..
Snook
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 01:05:01 PM by Snook » Logged
TMARK
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2008, 01:44:39 PM »
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Thanks for the extra information Michael..
I hope your wrong...:+} JK
Looks like a new body and one of the leafs are going to be back up in the 8-12,000 range just for body and one lens again...?
Bummer....
The latest Mamiya lens was well over 4,000 , I can only imagine leaf shutter (German Company)
new glass "D" to be pretty Costly...
Is a Zoom Leaf shutter possible..?
would hate to have to buy more than one lens at those prices.
That might help those 35 vs. MFDB threads in Favor of 35mm (Unfortunately) For me.
In any case thank you for the review and the Post..
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204532\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The Phase 645 is too expensive.  With a three year warranty its as much as a Hy6 and 80mm.  Since price is out of the equation Mamiya/Phase are competing on quality and brand perception alone.  While I like the AFD3/Phase 645 more than the H series (mostly), new comers hear "Hasselblad" and they get all warm and fuzzy because "'blad is the best!" and there is all the market hype and the (good) marketing etc. They buy the blad instead of the Phamiya, because who the hell has heard of Mamiya outside of professional photographers and a few ADs?  I think that Mamiya/Phase should save a price increase for their next camera that is something truly new, from the ground up.  

I wonder what street prices are going to be? At $2k, maybe $2.5k (body only) I'd bite.  The AF is better, the feel is tighter.  Its a nice camera.  But for $7,999 I could buy a Sony EX-1 xdcam and go to Paris for a few days to meet with photo editors. Or I could get a 1ds3.   In any case, as a business person, $8k could be invested into something else that would expand my capabilities.  Faster AF and the "opportunity" to buy really, really expensive new lenses, leaf shutter or not, is NOT worth $8k.
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Guy Mancuso
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2008, 02:42:31 PM »
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The Phase 645 is too expensive.  With a three year warranty its as much as a Hy6 and 80mm.  Since price is out of the equation Mamiya/Phase are competing on quality and brand perception alone.  While I like the AFD3/Phase 645 more than the H series (mostly), new comers hear "Hasselblad" and they get all warm and fuzzy because "'blad is the best!" and there is all the market hype and the (good) marketing etc. They buy the blad instead of the Phamiya, because who the hell has heard of Mamiya outside of professional photographers and a few ADs?  I think that Mamiya/Phase should save a price increase for their next camera that is something truly new, from the ground up. 

I wonder what street prices are going to be? At $2k, maybe $2.5k (body only) I'd bite.  The AF is better, the feel is tighter.  Its a nice camera.  But for $7,999 I could buy a Sony EX-1 xdcam and go to Paris for a few days to meet with photo editors. Or I could get a 1ds3.   In any case, as a business person, $8k could be invested into something else that would expand my capabilities.  Faster AF and the "opportunity" to buy really, really expensive new lenses, leaf shutter or not, is NOT worth $8k.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204543\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Buy a Phase back and it is free with a 80mm lens. Free is kind of nice. Waiting for mine to arrive just recently bought the P25 plus. Buy a leaf back and it is also Free when the Mamiya version comes out. 7,999.00 is not going to be the selling price for it alone, more like 5k from what I saw. Chris can give you a more accurate number on the body alone
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2008, 03:23:26 PM »
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What I know is that the Dutch price will be in the 2500-2700 euro range.
That's including 19% VAT.
For the body.
I think for a MF body with the specs and handling of the 645AFD/III that is NOT expensive.

The Afi is of course a great system but the 645AFD/III is smaller to travel with and to do street style shooting.
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kdphotography
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« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2008, 03:25:29 PM »
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MSRP on the Mamiya 645 AFD II is US$3,499.00 for the camera body alone at B&H.  I'd be happy if the camera body were in that price range.  I don't think the market would bear much more than that absent some really spectacular improvements over the current body.
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TMARK
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« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2008, 03:29:44 PM »
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Buy a Phase back and it is free with a 80mm lens. Free is kind of nice. Waiting for mine to arrive just recently bought the P25 plus. Buy a leaf back and it is also Free when the Mamiya version comes out. 7,999.00 is not going to be the selling price for it alone, more like 5k from what I saw. Chris can give you a more accurate number on the body alone
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204557\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Is that $5k with the VA warranty? I just want the body, so perhaps the body is in teh $2k range? I'll ask Lance when I get the chance.

T
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TMARK
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« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2008, 03:47:00 PM »
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MSRP on the Mamiya 645 AFD II is US$3,499.00 for the camera body alone at B&H.  I'd be happy if the camera body were in that price range.  I don't think the market would bear much more than that absent some really spectacular improvements over the current body.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204569\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I guess I'm spoiled buying used.  I bought an extra AFd for $450 and all of my AFd lenses for under $2,000.  I think I really want an RZ Pro2D but I'd like to skip the Mamiya serial communications protocol and just use a one shot cable.  Its the communications protocol that introduces the shutter lag. Its just slow slow.  I notoced while checking out the AFd3/Phase cam that the delay is still there, but less noticable.
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2008, 04:14:48 PM »
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Great review as usual Michael!

One very minor point on MLU with the AFD-II, and not that it matters since the AFD-3 is totally different, but for posterity: if you set the AF to the rear thumb button (using CF functions) then you can have AF and MLU together without having to physically switch to manual focus for MLU.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2008, 04:19:20 PM »
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We were told form the beginning that the "new" leaf shutter lens WOULD work on the AFDII..

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Snook, I notice that you've been torturing yourself over the upcoming leaf shutter lenses, but really there is only one lens promised by the end of this year (just look at the record of on-time deliveries and make up your own mind about that). Could be 2010 by the time you have 3 or 4 leaf shutter lenses to choose from. If you can survive that long without them, maybe you don't need them after all. And if you do need them then perhaps you could consider swapping to another platform which works today. Just my $0.02. Or am I missing something?
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Bill Caulfeild-Browne
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« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2008, 05:44:37 PM »
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I paid about $3450 (US) for my AFD III.
Bill




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MSRP on the Mamiya 645 AFD II is US$3,499.00 for the camera body alone at B&H.  I'd be happy if the camera body were in that price range.  I don't think the market would bear much more than that absent some really spectacular improvements over the current body.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204569\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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TMARK
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« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2008, 05:47:10 PM »
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TMARK

That's very interesting to hear about the RZ ProII versus RZ ProII D as far as the delay from the MSC protocol. I have been toying with the idea of an RZ for my Aptus. Whether or not to get the ProII D or just a ProII with a cable.

I would like to hear more from RZ users is there is a noticeable difference between the D version with MSC plate and a back just connected to the ProII body with cable.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=204582\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think with the RZ the mirror clearing takes a LONG time, so the delay would probably only be noticed when shooting mirror up.  I want to go with a plate because I have two RZ Pro2's and an RZ, a 50, 65m/la, 110, 150, 180 etc. An RZ used can be had for a few hundred.  Amazing lenses, all synced up to 400.  Buying a pro2d for $1500 seems wasteful.
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TMARK
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« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2008, 05:49:16 PM »
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I paid about $3450 (US) for my AFD III.
Bill
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Thanks for the info.  I really liked the camera when I tested it.

T
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