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Author Topic: Hasselblad 50 MP announced  (Read 45806 times)
TechTalk
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« Reply #160 on: July 09, 2008, 03:39:37 PM »
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I should also add, that since the 50mp version isn't slated for release until 2009 Q1
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the marketing benefit from an early announcement of such a camera, to be available in just under a year, is marketing genius.
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Dear customer,
I will learn to make excellent images for you next year.

Best regards,
Your photographer (who was the first to announce his new skills)
    
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I just don't think people will remember in 6 months that Hasselblad promised a 50mp sensor six months early
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This new 50 mp camera will be ready in the first Q of 2009, that is 6-9 months away.
Denis
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One of the interesting things about the internet is the echo chamber effect. Once misinformation is posted, it gets repeated until people believe that it's true!

For the record...

The H3DII-50 is scheduled for delivery in October 2008. This is in line with Kodak's announced delivery schedule for the new sensor.

The new HTS tilt/shift adapter is scheduled for delivery in Q1 of 2009. By the way, yes this does function with all H-series cameras as a mechanical/optical device. Users of Hasselblad CF product (H2/H2F/CF/CFH/H2D/H3D/H3DII) will have the added benefit of the electronic sensors that provide feedback on tilt/shift settings for automatic DAC lens corrections of distortion, vignetting & chromatic aberration specific to the lens position. Also, the rotation is continuously variable for combined tilt/swing like the Sinar ArTec.

The 645 sensor is scheduled for delivery sometime in 2009. More information will be provided at Photokina.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 03:46:49 PM by TechTalk » Logged
James R Russell
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« Reply #161 on: July 09, 2008, 03:54:47 PM »
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One of the interesting things about the internet is the echo chamber effect. Once misinformation is posted, it gets repeated until people believe that it's true!

For the record...

The H3DII-50 is scheduled for delivery in October 2008. This is in line with Kodak's announced delivery schedule for the new sensor.

The new HTS tilt/shift adapter is scheduled for delivery in Q1 of 2009. By the way, yes this does function with all H-series cameras as a mechanical/optical device. Users of Hasselblad CF product (H2/H2F/CF/CFH/H2D/H3D/H3DII) will have the added benefit of the electronic sensors that provide feedback on tilt/shift settings for automatic DAC lens corrections of distortion, vignetting & chromatic aberration specific to the lens position. Also, the rotation is continuously variable for combined tilt/swing like the Sinar ArTec.

The 645 sensor is scheduled for delivery sometime in 2009. More information will be provided at Photokina.
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TT, do you work for hasselblad?

JR
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jecxz
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« Reply #162 on: July 09, 2008, 04:21:41 PM »
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TT, do you work for hasselblad?

JR
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Don't know why he is so upset, I thought the purpose of a forum was to talk back and forth. Obviously if we had to think of everything to say in one post, it would be rather silent.

For the record, MR's write up:

[a href=\"http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/H3DII-50.shtml]http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/.../H3DII-50.shtml[/url]

States "Hasselblad is indicating delivery in Q1 2009." That is where I received my information. Perhaps Michael made a simple error and will correct it.

As for Hasselblad having marketing genius, I think that is a compliment. I own Hasselblad gear, I like their equipment and I look forward to the T/S and other new items.
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samuel_js
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« Reply #163 on: July 09, 2008, 04:29:07 PM »
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From the Hasselblad's promotion page.

"Purchase a H3DII-39 between now and September 30, 2008 and you can get a free lens of your choice, be guaranteed first access to the new H3DII-50 [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']when it is launched in October 2008, and be able to upgrade your H3DII-39 to the new H3DII-50 at a cost equal to the difference in list price."[/b][/span]
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 04:30:06 PM by samuel_js » Logged
jecxz
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« Reply #164 on: July 09, 2008, 04:52:43 PM »
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I think it's important to point out that Hasselblad has a healthy investment in R&D and it is one of the reasons why I selected Hasselblad when I purchased my MF gear.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 05:28:55 PM by jecxz » Logged

hcubell
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« Reply #165 on: July 09, 2008, 05:03:22 PM »
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The new HTS tilt/shift adapter is scheduled for delivery in Q1 of 2009. By the way, yes this does function with all H-series cameras as a mechanical/optical device. Users of Hasselblad CF product (H2/H2F/CF/CFH/H2D/H3D/H3DII) will have the added benefit of the electronic sensors that provide feedback on tilt/shift settings for automatic DAC lens corrections of distortion, vignetting & chromatic aberration specific to the lens position. Also, the rotation is continuously variable for combined tilt/swing like the Sinar ArTec.

The 645 sensor is scheduled for delivery sometime in 2009. More information will be provided at Photokina.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206761\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

IMHO, this is what Hasselblad should have done with the HCD 28mm lens. Let everyone with an H series camera buy and use the lens, but make it clear that the performance of the lens is optimized through the use of the software based corrrections only available to those with Hasselblad backs. Then, show people with real world imagery how the lens performance degrades without the software corrections.
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TMARK
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« Reply #166 on: July 09, 2008, 05:12:53 PM »
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Well you're right, Nikon did take a long time to listen, that I can't deny. But eventually the penny did drop with them, and they are listening now. How many more times does everybody have to ask for better screens on the MFDB's before it's done. Forget about the pixel race,  just improve the product as James has repeatedly said.

 If they did that as well as making them cheaper then more photographers would make the switch. The MFDB makers need to win over more 35mm shooters and they're going the wrong way about it. It's survival time for them especially with Photokina approaching and all the new DSLR cameras about to hit the market.

Cheers

Pete
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I think Blad is hitting it out of the park with dslr shooters, especially those that never shot film.  To them the H3D2 series is like a bigger, slower 1ds series camera, what with its single battery and big screen.  The name has a heritage and history many of the dslr guys do not understand, but they know it is "the best".  I hear this all the time from assistants/students and even amatures on the street.  The H3D2 is an object of desire for the target market in a way that Mamiya/Rollei can never be.  The t/s adapter is a fantastic option and shows that Blad isn't just a marketing machine, but is catering to the needs of real photographers.

The real challenge is not limited to Blad, but is rather aimed at the entire MFDB industry.  The backs need to be cheaper and offer more features.  The market for photography, for most shooters, can barely support the purchase of a 5D and a few lenses.  rates are down or stagnant.  Into this mix you throw in a $20k digital purchase and realize that you still need that 35mm digital to shoot certain things?  If they want to sell more of these, ensuring that there is enough room for the 4 back makers, then get real and go for volume.  Make the market.  Then maybe we'll get screens that are usable.

And I hate to harp on about video but for $6500 and associated computers you can make more money  on a day rate basis, for jobs that are easier to land, than with $25k - $40k worth of MF gear.  I was about to buy a 1ds3  but decided to get a Sony EX1 instead. I like stills better than video, but from a business perspective, the investment in video is much, much smarter.

So here it is:  MFDB makers, lower your prices if you want to survive.  If not I think we'll only have Blad and Sinar left, Blad because their marketing is so good and Sinar because of their expertise with technical cameras.  The market is only so big when its a $20k investment.
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uaiomex
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« Reply #167 on: July 09, 2008, 05:18:36 PM »
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The Hy6/Afi  camera are better suited for the joy of photography (no pun intented) IMHO. This may likely be subjective, but I think the latest german glass developed for these cameras will be better than those from Fujiblad. The capability of using them at waist level, floor level, eye level, etc., will give them an edge over the H camerasi in terms of flexibility. Of course as I said, it is subjective.

The H3DII-50 camera will be available from October 2008 at a price of $39,995
Complete, I believe.

Best
Eduardo

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BTW, why is the Hy6 better equipped to accomadate a  true 645 chip that the H series?
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rainer_v
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« Reply #168 on: July 09, 2008, 05:55:40 PM »
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what i listened from "usually very well informed circles out of the industry " is that Hasselblad received from Kodak the developer packet for the 50mp sensor in the same week as they made the announcement. so they START at this moment to create the back around the sensor.
no idea how long takes this, but everybody can use its own fantasy.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 05:56:41 PM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
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juicy
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« Reply #169 on: July 09, 2008, 06:09:21 PM »
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what i listened from "usually very well informed circles out of the industry " is that Hasselblad received from Kodak the developer packet for the 50mp sensor in the same week as they made the announcement. so they START at this moment to create the back around the sensor.
no idea how long takes this, but everybody can use its own fantasy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206814\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Are you sure it's the 50mpx sensor and not the overflowingly full 645? Sounds unbelievably short time to implement and test if it's meant to ship in 3 months. Anyway, this is pure speculation, someone (TT) set this straight.

Cheers,
J
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Streetshooter
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« Reply #170 on: July 09, 2008, 06:11:23 PM »
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I think Blad is hitting it out of the park with dslr shooters, especially those that never shot film.  To them the H3D2 series is like a bigger, slower 1ds series camera, what with its single battery and big screen.  The name has a heritage and history many of the dslr guys do not understand, but they know it is "the best".  I hear this all the time from assistants/students and even amatures on the street.  The H3D2 is an object of desire for the target market in a way that Mamiya/Rollei can never be.  The t/s adapter is a fantastic option and shows that Blad isn't just a marketing machine, but is catering to the needs of real photographers.

The real challenge is not limited to Blad, but is rather aimed at the entire MFDB industry.  The backs need to be cheaper and offer more features.  The market for photography, for most shooters, can barely support the purchase of a 5D and a few lenses.  rates are down or stagnant.  Into this mix you throw in a $20k digital purchase and realize that you still need that 35mm digital to shoot certain things?  If they want to sell more of these, ensuring that there is enough room for the 4 back makers, then get real and go for volume.  Make the market.  Then maybe we'll get screens that are usable.

And I hate to harp on about video but for $6500 and associated computers you can make more money  on a day rate basis, for jobs that are easier to land, than with $25k - $40k worth of MF gear.  I was about to buy a 1ds3  but decided to get a Sony EX1 instead. I like stills better than video, but from a business perspective, the investment in video is much, much smarter.

So here it is:  MFDB makers, lower your prices if you want to survive.  If not I think we'll only have Blad and Sinar left, Blad because their marketing is so good and Sinar because of their expertise with technical cameras.  The market is only so big when its a $20k investment.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206800\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree with you entirely. I've used the V system for over twenty five years, absolutely wonderful cameras. Still use the original 500c I bought as a student, and I never felt the need to upgrade every year.  At least when I purchased it it didn't devalue by a huge amount instantly and was superseded within a few months. I'd be well upset if I'd bought a MF digital camera for thirty grand and six months later the maker was selling it at a special promotional price at almost half the original cost, just to make way for a newer model.

With the photography business evolving at the rate it is going and a recession looming I really am bemused at the behaviour of the MFDB makers. I mean where are all the older backs, you know the Aptus 17's etc. Why aren't the manufacturers selling these off real cheap to get people hooked into the MF digital world ?

I've also bought a video camera too...

Cheers

Pete
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SeanBK
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« Reply #171 on: July 09, 2008, 06:15:30 PM »
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what i listened from "usually very well informed circles out of the industry " is that Hasselblad received from Kodak the developer packet for the 50mp sensor in the same week as they made the announcement. so they START at this moment to create the back around the sensor.
no idea how long takes this, but everybody can use its own fantasy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206814\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That means Fotokina & Photoplus will have a floor model of H3D50.
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henrikfoto
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« Reply #172 on: July 09, 2008, 06:45:44 PM »
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Any new back from Sinar this year?

Henrik
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TMARK
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« Reply #173 on: July 09, 2008, 07:16:10 PM »
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I agree with you entirely. I've used the V system for over twenty five years, absolutely wonderful cameras. Still use the original 500c I bought as a student, and I never felt the need to upgrade every year.  At least when I purchased it it didn't devalue by a huge amount instantly and was superseded within a few months. I'd be well upset if I'd bought a MF digital camera for thirty grand and six months later the maker was selling it at a special promotional price at almost half the original cost, just to make way for a newer model.

With the photography business evolving at the rate it is going and a recession looming I really am bemused at the behaviour of the MFDB makers. I mean where are all the older backs, you know the Aptus 17's etc. Why aren't the manufacturers selling these off real cheap to get people hooked into the MF digital world ?

I've also bought a video camera too...

Cheers

Pete
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206820\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Exactly!  They should be expanding their market with refurb A17s, A22s, P21s and 25s, some old e-motion 22s etc.  Get people hooked into a system with amazing IQ but pain in the ass/slow operation.  People will upgrade for better usability features and BOOM, you have new people entering the market who will upgrade to new products down the road.

I have a P30+ but would love to have an A22 for less than $7,999, the price of a 1ds3.  Then later I would get an AFi 5 for the speed, who knows.  As it stands, by backup to my P30 is either a 5D or a roll of Portra 400NC.

As it is, the Leaf refurb prices, as set by Leaf and not their dealers, is about the same as a NEW P30+.  Crazy, no?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 07:19:16 PM by TMARK » Logged
TechTalk
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« Reply #174 on: July 09, 2008, 08:49:07 PM »
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TT, do you work for hasselblad?

JR
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No. I've never worked for any manufacturer.
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TechTalk
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« Reply #175 on: July 09, 2008, 10:33:28 PM »
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I just learned that Hasselblad announced this new back the same day that Kodak made developer kits available to the back manufacturers. It seems fair to conclude that Hasselblad announced this new back before they had even tested this new sensor. If so, the 50MP back could not have existed at that time, even in prototype form. Let's see how much noise they make about being "first to introduce a 50MP back".
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what i listened from "usually very well informed circles out of the industry " is that Hasselblad received from Kodak the developer packet for the 50mp sensor in the same week as they made the announcement. so they START at this moment to create the back around the sensor.
no idea how long takes this, but everybody can use its own fantasy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206814\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Quote
Are you sure it's the 50mpx sensor and not the overflowingly full 645? Sounds unbelievably short time to implement and test if it's meant to ship in 3 months. Anyway, this is pure speculation, someone (TT) set this straight.

Cheers,
J
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206819\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It is in no way unusual for a component manufacturer to provide prototype and pre-production samples of new designs to select customers for evaluation, feedback, testing and preliminary product design, in advance of offering the product to the general market. In fact, it's fairly standard operating procedure in many high-tech markets. Before announcing a product like the new Kodak sensor and starting up production, it makes sense to get feedback (and orders) from your most likely customers (like Hasselblad and Phase One) before ramping up a fabrication line.

Kodak currently has evaluation kits available to anyone wishing to buy them and is producing engineering grade 50mp sensors. Now, some may believe that Phase One and Hasselblad were kept unaware of Kodak's development work on this new sensor until a few days ago and/or were never provided early samples to evaluate.  A relatively small number of people at Kodak and Hasselblad know whether or not this is the case. I have no direct knowledge, so anything I say would have to be speculation based on assumption, gossip or rumor--and it hardly "seems fair to conclude" anything based on that. I would certainly be surprised if Kodak did not supply samples to Phase One and Kodak some time ago! It would be the sensible thing for Kodak to do.

Some years ago, George Harrison was going past a small church that had a sign outside reading "Gossip... the devil's radio! Don't be a broadcaster!" He made an immediate connection with that little phrase and wrote a song based on that theme. It's a tune that I've enjoyed for years and a concept that I try to keep in mind, but fail to remember sometimes. I'm human... and people do love to gossip. Live version...  [a href=\"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0mGBpoFxB4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0mGBpoFxB4[/url]
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 11:47:38 PM by TechTalk » Logged
James R Russell
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« Reply #176 on: July 10, 2008, 01:30:25 AM »
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No. I've never worked for any manufacturer.
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Then thank you for your information.

It's appreciated.

JR
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« Reply #177 on: July 10, 2008, 01:36:15 AM »
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From the Hasselblad's promotion page.

"Purchase a H3DII-39 between now and September 30, 2008 and you can get a free lens of your choice, be guaranteed first access to the new H3DII-50 [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']when it is launched in October 2008, and be able to upgrade your H3DII-39 to the new H3DII-50 at a cost equal to the difference in list price."[/b][/span]
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Hi
Thank you for the info. The H3DII-50 will be available in 3 months.
Denis
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Denis Montalbetti
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