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Author Topic: overexpose my film and then push process it  (Read 14827 times)
annesophieheist
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« on: July 04, 2008, 10:26:32 PM »
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Hello there,

I have a quick questions about a somehow well know thing .
I have assisted photographers who rate their ISO400 Kodak VC film at 320 and then push process it  1 stop.
I was wondering if I can also do that with 160 NC film or if that only works well with the VC ones.
Also by pushing my film in the processing I end up by pushing my film by 1 1/3 of  a stop, correct?
Sorry for this somehow very simple question but google hasnt been able to help me out on that one so I am hoping to find an answer among some experienced photographers among you.
many thanks in advance.
p.s. if anyone is willing to go into more details about this somewhat insider tip ( any experience with other film brands, the whole concept of doing that) so that I can grasp the idea of doing it this way better will be highly appreciated.
I want to be able to tell people exactly why I am doing it that way and not just because I copy someone else.
I have so far done it with the KOdak 400CV film and think that I can find greater saturation and a litle bit more contrast in them compared to the one exposed to 400VC and no pushing.

anne-sophie
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bob carnie
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2008, 08:11:54 AM »
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Push processing colour negative is not such a great idea, A resulting boost in contrast is not apparent in the same way one would get with a push in B&W film. Some will argue a boost in colour saturation is the reason but from my experience pushing colour film will only increase the chance of colour cross curve which is hell to get rid of.
Slight overexposure with normal process will give a good quality colour  negative there are different colour papers to boost contrast or saturation, or obviously tone controls in PS.
Their are some * results * of pushing colour film  some photographers may find appropriate for their work but much testing and reliable processing would be mandatory to get consistant looks.
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elliot_n
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2008, 06:32:59 PM »
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All the Kodak Portra films respond well to push processing.

The more you push, the greater the contrast and saturation.

My standard recipe (rather like the photographers you assisted) is to overexpose 400VC by one stop, and then push process it half a stop. On occassions I've pushed it up to two stops for a more pronounced effect.

You should do your own tests.

With a 2 stop push you'll get some colour crossovers, but nothing as extreme a cross-processing.

You can also pull-process Portra, to get a faded, 70s look.

In the darkroom, I switch between Kodak Endura Supra and Ultra papers to further control contrast and saturation.
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annesophieheist
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2008, 11:49:40 PM »
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Thank you very much for your reply!
I will do my own tests and find out what works best for me.
Happy shooting!
anne-sophie
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All the Kodak Portra films respond well to push processing.

The more you push, the greater the contrast and saturation.

My standard recipe (rather like the photographers you assisted) is to overexpose 400VC by one stop, and then push process it half a stop. On occassions I've pushed it up to two stops for a more pronounced effect.

You should do your own tests.

With a 2 stop push you'll get some colour crossovers, but nothing as extreme a cross-processing.

You can also pull-process Portra, to get a faded, 70s look.

In the darkroom, I switch between Kodak Endura Supra and Ultra papers to further control contrast and saturation.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206042\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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annesophieheist
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2008, 11:54:02 PM »
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One more quick question.

when you are talking about pull processing the film you mean for example exposing at ISO 800 for a 400 film and then pull processing it one stop? or overexpose one stop by rating it at ISO 200 and then pull process the film?

many thanks in advance

soph
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All the Kodak Portra films respond well to push processing.

The more you push, the greater the contrast and saturation.

My standard recipe (rather like the photographers you assisted) is to overexpose 400VC by one stop, and then push process it half a stop. On occassions I've pushed it up to two stops for a more pronounced effect.

You should do your own tests.

With a 2 stop push you'll get some colour crossovers, but nothing as extreme a cross-processing.

You can also pull-process Portra, to get a faded, 70s look.

In the darkroom, I switch between Kodak Endura Supra and Ultra papers to further control contrast and saturation.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206042\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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elliot_n
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2008, 08:05:17 AM »
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Traditionally, pull processing would refer to under-developing over-exposed film.

However all my tests on varying the development times for Portra films (i.e. pushing and pulling), were done with film that had been over-exposed by 1 stop.

You will find many photographers who routinely over-expose colour neg by 1 stop - it's simply a safeguard against underexposure.

Underexposed colour neg looks bad, whereas over-exposed colour neg - by 1, 2, even 3 stops - looks almost identical to normal exposure.

Start with a good exposure (1 stop over), and then create different looks with push and pull processing and different papers and techniques (e.g. pre-flashing) in the darkroom.

(Alternatively expose normal, process normal, scan and do what you like in photoshop.)
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bob carnie
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2008, 08:13:11 AM »
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Pushing colour film 1 -2 stops will not respond anything like a two stop push in b&w.
You may be putting a bit more meat on the negative but insignificant contrast and saturation boost.
Colour negative film has been designed for normal process time approx 3.5min at exacting tempatures and agitation. The film has many layers of complexity that over developing will mess with.

But if you feel you are getting great results, by all means go for it.

If you are hoping for natural colours from your work I would keep to normal process with anthing a slight overexposure.
I would suggest though, you can get better contrast boosts and colour saturation in LAB colour mode that could meet all your needs.
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elliot_n
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2008, 11:54:47 AM »
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You may be putting a bit more meat on the negative but insignificant contrast and saturation boost.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=206169\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I disagree.

The contrast boost is significant.

With reference to B&W photography, each half stop that you push Portra, will give a contrast boost roughly equivalent to a half grade of paper.

So if Portra processed Normal is equivalent to B&W paper grade 2, then Portra processed +2 is equivalent to B&W paper grade 4.

(But do your own tests.)
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bob carnie
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2008, 12:56:41 PM »
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Well I guess we just  disagree.

Done lots of test over the years, from cross processing E6- C41 and vise versa and personally have not seen the kind of 2 grade in contrast boost you are suggesting.

A contrast boost is possible, but unpredictable, over heat your chems and you will get some contrast shift as well chemical fog on film to punch through.
Today with PS there simply is no need to take on the extra burden of cross curving that is ineviatble with over development of colour negative film.

Would love to see examples of your testing showing normal , 1stop boost, 2stop boost in contrast using colour negative film without the aid of PS on any colour paper . If you are controlling all your variables with fresh chems and consistant development, your tests would be interesting to see.

Day to Day consistancey in C41 in these times is hard to find and not sure if the OP is processing their own film or sending it out, which would also be a huge issue for repeatability.
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Photo_Utopia
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2008, 11:13:34 AM »
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I have in the past tried to push C41, but never found the results to my liking. I think the biggest problem is the cross curves, cyan highlights and red shadows in my case; which in turn were hard to print back in the day.
I guess now with scanning and PS you could sort it easier, but then again why not just pump the contrast in your picture editor/scan software?
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