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Author Topic: Phase/Mamiya is it ever reliable ?  (Read 11154 times)
ericisaac
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« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2008, 01:08:49 AM »
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If I had a camera and back that did this on a routine basis I would return every bit of it, or I would throw it off the roof.  I'm serious.

Nothing would be as bad as have a pink and green frame of that one amazing moment and I'm sure that would the exact frame it would happen to.

I have to say out of a lot of frames with the p30 and the Contax I've had about a dozen half black frames, about 4 with a green line in them, but nothing routine, and that's out of a lot of frames.

On the P21, regardless of how fast I shoot I've never seen a bad frame.

Then again, Edmund have you cleaned and polished every contact from the lenses to the back and then gone into the dealer with the exact equipment and mixed and matched until you can isolate if it's your lens, your back, your body or jus the way the system is designed.

If it's a design flaw then the answer is to move on to other equipment, if it's just a mechanical issue the answer is to fix it.

Though I'm sure you know that.

JR
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With the RZ, its the nature of the beast, really. Most of the time all the pieces are rental items. But we have found a few systems from private rental companies that work really well. Still though, there is always something on every shoot. Usually we have to reconnect the cables or switch out cables. Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of moving on. I have to use what the client wants and  I troubleshoot it, make sure there are plenty of cables and backup equipment and make sure that the system stays up and running.

With the H2, I don't see these kind of issues often. Nonetheless, any camera system, regardless of what it is does not come without its list of issues that are most prevalent in real world situations on set. Its great that you don't have those issues with the P21. Unfortunately that system is a bit too small. Typically if I want speed without issues I use Leaf.
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eric isaac, tech blogger
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« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2008, 07:07:25 AM »
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Doug,

Thank you for this extensive reply. I will try and see whether it is possible to get my camera body serviced here in Paris. I have a VA warranty on the back, but clearly this does not cover the body.

IMHO the good point about the Phase name on the new body is that Phase is forced to guarantee that body service is available.

Edmund
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With all that said it should be very easy for you to simply take a different Mamiya AFDII body or PhaseOne 645 body and prove to yourself that this does not effect your captures any longer.

Of course the Phase One backs are built rock solid and that is why they are so widely used around the world. No one here ever questioned that. We are just simply trying to gather others experience ofthese artifacts and come to some conclusion of what may have happened during his exposures.

And James is correct in that we gather all the requested information when issues arise but is it sometimes more difficlut to fully understand where the problem is.

I would have assumed that someone would have already tried a second body to trouble shoot this issue.

Good Luck


Chris Snipes
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Chris Snipes
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Jack Flesher
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« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2008, 09:39:18 AM »
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Edmund:

Have you sent your AFD/AFD2 body in for the digital back firmware upgrade?  (I'm probably way behind, but I only learned about it yesterday myself...)

See: http://www.mamiya.com/news-events-promotio...d-upgrades.html

Jack
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 10:22:43 AM by Jack Flesher » Logged

eronald
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« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2008, 01:17:16 PM »
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Edmund:

Have you sent your AFD/AFD2 body in for the digital back firmware upgrade? (I'm probably way behind, but I only learned about it yesterday myself...)

See: http://www.mamiya.com/news-events-promotio...d-upgrades.html

Jack
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Well, I took the back off the body for the first time since the dealer mounted it, the sensor looked clean (!), and I saw a piece of plastic foil around the contacts which I removed. I think this might help with focus. I also cleaned the contacts as James suggested - I seem to be incapable of giving myself the advice which I'd give to others, which is a good reason for coming here.

I'm going to run some tests. If the problem persists, I'm going to find a cheap AFD to buy and then send the AFDII in for service -my dealer says body repairs are sent to Japan and take 3 weeks.

Thing is, I know it may sound weird to people who read me here, as I come across as a techie, but 6 months after the move to MF I've just now nailed down my working configuration with the body and back and software and printer, and have only now started to make "production" images so I don't want to stop. It's now image time rather than tech time.


Edmund
« Last Edit: July 25, 2008, 01:18:47 PM by eronald » Logged
simplify
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« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2008, 12:34:13 AM »
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Does anyone know how long this update takes

I don't usually shoot fast so I don't often experience the magenta frame problem.  However I shot an editorial job today with the P45+ and experienced this magenta frame problem on 2 images out of 266.  It would be nice if it didn't happen.  It hasn't ruined a valuable image yet, but it has the potential.  Wow I learned a lot of tricks shooting an editorial story with the p45+, it was a challenge.
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Edmund:

Have you sent your AFD/AFD2 body in for the digital back firmware upgrade?  (I'm probably way behind, but I only learned about it yesterday myself...)

See: http://www.mamiya.com/news-events-promotio...d-upgrades.html

Jack
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210594\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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stewarthemley
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« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2008, 01:53:49 AM »
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Thing is, I know it may sound weird to people who read me here, as I come across as a techie, but 6 months after the move to MF I've just now nailed down my working configuration with the body and back and software and printer, and have only now started to make "production" images so I don't want to stop. It's now image time rather than tech time.
Edmund
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I was relieved to see you say that, Edmund, because I have just had a similar experience. I moved back to MF (H3D 39) 6 months ago and am only now beginning to take the sort of shots I'm pleased with. I also moved from PC to Mac at the same time and that complicated things a bit but even so, I was beginning to wonder if I was a 35mm person at heart and should recognise my limitations (no disrespect for 35mm shooters - I'm still one). For years I used MF film, owned every system made (bit cheaper to change in those days!), until the Canon 1Ds appeared then sold everything and went fully digital. That was an easy change to make because although we had to learn a few new technical tricks, the actual shooting suddenly became freer, quicker, and for me gave better results. But I longed for the higher quality (better colour, more headroom to process files, more resolution for bigger prints, etc) of MF. Fortunately I had the work coming in so I bought the gear.

Maybe I'm unlearning the habits of years of 35mm digital and recalling (slowly!) the different requirements of MF shooting. Following your posts often, I feel you want to use your MF gear in a 35mm way. I think I want that also so maybe that's part of what's happening. Yes, we have to learn how to get the best out of constantly changing software, which I find much more complicated than darkroom technique, but for me it's recognising and adjusting to the different ways of MF shooting that's the biggest challenge. I still have days when I just don't get the shots I want with MF and know that I would have got them with my 1Ds (now a mk3). But there's something about working with MF that I just can't resist. Maybe it's the challenge of trying to master a format that so far has mastered me. Whatever, hopefully it delays the onset of senility just a little. (Sorry if this post was rambling but your comment triggered these thoughts.)
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Rob C
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« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2008, 06:20:01 AM »
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Yes, we have to learn how to get the best out of constantly changing software, which I find much more complicated than darkroom technique,




Amen to that!

Kind of takes me back to my original thoughts when digital first impacted on my brain those years ago: is it/was it really a solution looking for a problem?

Rob C
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woof75
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« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2008, 08:55:26 AM »
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P21 with normal AFD, not a single bad frame yet after a year and last job of 1000 frames not a single out of focus frame either. And thats fashion shot handheld.
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TMARK
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« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2008, 09:54:34 AM »
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P21 with normal AFD, not a single bad frame yet after a year and last job of 1000 frames not a single out of focus frame either. And thats fashion shot handheld.
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I find that I have to manually focus for an 80% hit rate.  With AF it always seems to lock on the wrong thing, such as the bridge of the nose instead of eyes.
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woof75
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« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2008, 11:26:49 AM »
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I find that I have to manually focus for an 80% hit rate.  With AF it always seems to lock on the wrong thing, such as the bridge of the nose instead of eyes.
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I shoot F11 with a wide lens so it isn't that critical.
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TMARK
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« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2008, 11:42:25 AM »
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I shoot F11 with a wide lens so it isn't that critical.
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That's what I've been doing lately as well, with the 45mm.  Still manual focusing. The 45 sings at F11.
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etrump
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« Reply #51 on: July 31, 2008, 05:19:32 PM »
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Wow!  If I had a single shot like this one I would be a raving lunatic.  Almost looks like you have light leaking in around the back or something.  

Any chance you have occasional focus problems too?

I use a P30+ with AFDII and never seen anything remotely similar to this.

I occasional have problems with metering on manual glass but assumed I got confused on the stop down.
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Ed Cooley

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eronald
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« Reply #52 on: August 01, 2008, 06:12:43 PM »
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Wow!  If I had a single shot like this one I would be a raving lunatic.  Almost looks like you have light leaking in around the back or something. 

Any chance you have occasional focus problems too?

I use a P30+ with AFDII and never seen anything remotely similar to this.

I occasional have problems with metering on manual glass but assumed I got confused on the stop down.
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I think the camera is focusing at the right spot, but the back itself hasn't been sharp in the past somehow. A replacement P45 back I had for a while seemed much sharper somehow.

When I had this magenta issue, however, I separated the back from the camera and found a piece of plastic foil over the contact-guard. I removed this, and cleaned the contacts (JR's recommended therapy), haven't had a bad shot since, and sharpness seems improved.  

Before buying a back, I did some tests with a Mamiya and P30, and it seemed sharper than my P45+s have been.

I enjoy using the Mamiya as a super-SLR; it would be easier to do if it had the ZD form factor. However, in a few years with live-view we'll probably be able to use the Alpa with back-screen composition and focus. Schneider-MF-compacts, that's what we really need

Edmund
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