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Author Topic: Best dye inkjet printer for B&W  (Read 5414 times)
Chris13
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« on: July 25, 2008, 08:26:21 AM »
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Hello

I plan to buy a dye (and not pigment) inkjet printer and want to know which is the best printer to produce beautiful and neutral B&W prints?

Thank for all
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mbridgers
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« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2008, 09:17:11 AM »
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I use the Epson R280 and QuadTone Rip.  The "big brother" is the Epson 1400, which uses the same Claria inkset.  

Without Quadtone Rip, you probably won't get neutral prints.  Mine had a slight Magenta cast to them.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2008, 07:33:50 AM »
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Hello

I plan to buy a dye (and not pigment) inkjet printer and want to know which is the best printer to produce beautiful and neutral B&W prints?

Thank for all
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Right now there's no printer out of the box that will meet your request.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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Chris13
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2008, 11:14:37 AM »
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Right now there's no printer out of the box that will meet your request.
Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=210803\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What do you mean? even with a dedicated ICC profil?
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2008, 12:22:10 PM »
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What do you mean? even with a dedicated ICC profil?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Even with a dedicated ICC profile.

But maybe you could alter your request, what is more important: the dye aspect or the neutral B&W ?  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ...


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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PaulH
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2008, 04:10:50 AM »
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Take a look at the HP printers that use the HP 59 photo grey or HP 100.  These give neutral B&W prints.  

Something like the HP 8750 for example.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2008, 04:56:07 AM »
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Take a look at the HP printers that use the HP 59 photo grey or HP 100.  These give neutral B&W prints. 

Something like the HP 8750 for example.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Closer to the goal I have to admit but not yet in.
It doesn't know a B&W mode in the driver if the user manual tells all.
The extra grey doesn't replace all composite grey mixing then I guess.
To what Epson generation desktop model can it be compared if the pigment/dye aspect is ignored. Somewhere in between 2200 and 2400 ?

[a href=\"http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00304208.pdf]http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00304208.pdf[/url]


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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Chris13
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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2008, 06:05:38 AM »
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Closer to the goal I have to admit but not yet in.
It doesn't know a B&W mode in the driver if the user manual tells all.
The extra grey doesn't replace all composite grey mixing then I guess.
To what Epson generation desktop model can it be compared if the pigment/dye aspect is ignored. Somewhere in between 2200 and 2400 ?

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c00304208.pdf
Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211133\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What do you mean by "pigment/dye aspect"? is there a look wich is different? more photographic?
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Nill Toulme
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2008, 08:11:16 AM »
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Why do you insist on a dye printer?  Just curious...

Nill
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Chris13
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2008, 08:50:59 AM »
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Why do you insist on a dye printer?  Just curious...

Nill
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www.toulme.net
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211146\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I target dye printer HP B8750 because of grey inks and moderate buying cost.
I heard also that dye printers would be less prone to bronzing / metamerism than pigment printers.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2008, 10:33:41 AM »
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I target dye printer HP B8750 because of grey inks and moderate buying cost.
I heard also that dye printers would be less prone to bronzing / metamerism than pigment printers.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The few B&W dye inksets that were available on the market (Lyson) showed metamerism. Any inkset that still uses composite greys (greys mixed with CMY color inks) is more prone to metamerism and is more difficult to keep neutral in time both on the printer and as a print later on. Where dye will be more universal in use for gloss and matte papers it doesn't have the longevity other than on some compatible papers that are mainly (semi) gloss like Mark mentions.

If you like to have a really cheap dedicated B&W printer check the messages on the Digital B&W list. Several solutions to change one of the cheaper Epson models to a dedicated B&W printer either for gloss or matte or both and with pigment inks that last.

[a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint[/url]

If you want to have a printer that does color and B&W equally excellent you are forced to one of the more expensive desktop models and the ones I'm aware of are pigment models. Dye versions will face the same cons on fading and paper incompatibility described earlier. Pigment is mainstream in B&W right now.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
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rdonson
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2008, 10:52:48 AM »
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I target dye printer HP B8750 because of grey inks and moderate buying cost.
I heard also that dye printers would be less prone to bronzing / metamerism than pigment printers.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211153\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Why not consider the HP printer of similar size with pigment inks such as the B9180?
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Regards,
Ron
Chris13
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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2008, 02:51:57 PM »
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Why not consider the HP printer of similar size with pigment inks such as the B9180?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211180\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

For the price difference, I would prefer to target EPSON R2400 or R2880.
About EPSON R2400 / R2880, what are the results on baryta papers compare to EPSON R1800 / R1900 for example (color results) ?
Is EPSON R2880 really better than R2400?

Again thanks for all the answers of the members
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Nill Toulme
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2008, 06:08:19 PM »
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I target dye printer HP B8750 because of grey inks and moderate buying cost.
I heard also that dye printers would be less prone to bronzing / metamerism than pigment printers.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211153\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think you have the tail wagging the dog.

Nill
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peteh
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« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2008, 06:26:51 PM »
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I think you have the tail wagging the dog.

Nill
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www.toulme.net
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211253\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The Epson R2400 EATS ink like MAD! Get a pigment printer!I like HP printers,always have, and they are great on ink use!
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PaulH
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« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2008, 10:54:02 PM »
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Closer to the goal I have to admit but not yet in.
It doesn't know a B&W mode in the driver if the user manual tells all.
The extra grey doesn't replace all composite grey mixing then I guess.
....

It can print using only the grey ink cartridge, should you so choose.

I've not noticed any metamerism with the B+W prints, even when accepting the default settings, which I believe uses a small amout of ink from the photo-colour cartridge.

A small amount of ink from the photo grey is also used when printing colour.

If you want really cheap and only up to A4, try and track down an HP 7960.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2008, 05:05:52 AM »
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It can print using only the grey ink cartridge, should you so choose.

I've not noticed any metamerism with the B+W prints, even when accepting the default settings, which I believe uses a small amout of ink from the photo-colour cartridge.

A small amount of ink from the photo grey is also used when printing colour.

If you want really cheap and only up to A4, try and track down an HP 7960.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Paul,

There's something odd with the link to the 8750 in your first message, it brings you to the HP 8700 pages and little information. Searching for the HP 8750 I found Steve's Digicam review of it and that says a lot more. The gray cart holds three gray inks if the illustration is correct. That will make true greyscale printing possible.

I learned something.

[a href=\"http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/hp8750.html]http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/hp8750.html[/url]

Its price and the consumables (tri-color carts with integrated head, HP compatible papers) may not make it the cheapest solution in practice though.

I see an A4 model the HP B8300 that looks like it uses the same carts and with a price of 300 $. Edit: it is even A3 I see

The HP B9180 and B8800 pigment A3 models are most likely cheaper in use compared to the 8750. A wider range of (matte + fiber) third party papers possible too. Gloss differentiation and in worst case bronzing on gloss papers is the thing that then may be a problem.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 05:42:31 AM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
PaulH
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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2008, 09:57:36 PM »
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Paul,

There's something odd with the link to the 8750 in your first message, it brings you to the HP 8700 pages and little information. ...

That may have something to do with HP's odd site behaviour, depending on which country site you come through.

They also have the silly habit of giving the same printer completely different model numbers depending on market.

Still, they still sell dye based printers, both A4 and A3 capable, that can do very good B+W.  The great thing is that you don't have to dedicate the printer to B+W - you can swap back and forth easily, without any ink wastage.
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