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Author Topic: 56 MP Leaf AFi10  (Read 66269 times)
Khun_K
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2008, 01:44:50 PM »
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Well, this format should help with double page spreads and I think that little by little we are all heading towards a more panoramic view of the world, most screens are now becoming wide, the Internet is therefore seen on wider shaped windows, then there is the video related work, also wide. I do like the wide format, it gives images a different and sometimes more important dimension, though like everything, it could be a fad that will last a few years.

In the meantime, why not capitalise on it.

I am interested, and would consider buying one, so long as other things have been sorted out, like fast and sharp live view, not too noisy high ISO, fast tethering, etc, etc. Chip size is no longer as important as it used to be.

I like the idea of the internal rotation of the chip a lot!.

To me, the ideal chip would be 6x7 on a camera like the RZ but with full front and rear movements.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211501\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Agreed.  Photography should be creative control, not limited to the format of sensor.
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BJL
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« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2008, 01:55:09 PM »
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Some very interesting facts here

1. Dalsa is now making two "exclusive" custom variants on the same basic design (same 6 micron cell), probably doable on the same production line so that there is little extra cost over a single sensor model.

2. The larger, square 56x56mm format camera has a sensor of slightly smaller area and far less square shape! And the shape woudl fit withing teh 645 fomrat frame. In most of the common larger print shapes like 10x8, 14x11 and the ISO A paper sizes, the final crop gives a slightly smaller image than the 54x40mm P65+ sensor, the same size as one would get by cropping from a 36x48mm sensor. So apparently this sensor has a big focus on full double page spreads and panoramic landscapes. I use the adjective "panoramic" to fight the dogma that most or all landscapes are in wide aspect ratios: Check out the landscapes of Ansel Adams for example (some are even verticals!)


Also, the rumored 48x48mm Dalsa sensor seems to be off the table. Or maybe Dalsa will make a square sensor exclusively for the Rollei branded version of the Hy6 body, for traditionalists?!

Seriously, this seems to confirm what I have been saying for years (and Mamiya long before me!): rotating backs can eliminate most needs for square film formats and square sensors, even if square viewfinders still have their place.


P.S. I doubt that MF backs are designed to fit the needs of video or display on computer screens. The shape choices of still and moving images are somewhat different.
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RobertJ
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« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2008, 01:58:08 PM »
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Hmm.  I like this idea.  I think wide is the future.  

But only 20 more mm on the short end, and we could've had 56x56mm, and it only would've cost, like, $120,000 dollars!  Come on DALSA!  Get your act in gear!

But seriously, let's take a look at the numbers here:

The new "10" back gives you a 3:2 20x30 inch print at 300dpi right out of the camera.  Daddy likes.

Cropped to 4:3, you get a 20x25 inch print at 300dpi.
Compared to a P65+, at native file size, which is already at 4:3 to begin with, you get approx 22x30 inch print at 300dpi.  Not a huge difference to me.

I'm guessing the Aptus and Sinar backs will be identical?  Or does Sinar choose to not go with the wide chip, and use something like what Phase is using?
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klane
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« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2008, 01:58:10 PM »
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Awesome that leaf brought back the turning sensor!

But why why whyyyyyyyy a 3:2 sensor???  im open minded about sensor shape...but this seems like a bad idea.

Not too thrilled about 6x6 microns either. What happened to all that tech talk we were submitted to years ago about the advantages of large photosites?? Did the laws of physics change in the past couple of years?


Im glad to see something new out there, but it hardly seems like what people are asking for.
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James R Russell
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« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2008, 01:58:32 PM »
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yaya posted this on another forum:

http://www.leaf-photography.com/afi10
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211413\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I think they're missing a marketing strategy on the names.

It should be Wide True Format

JR
« Last Edit: July 30, 2008, 08:21:15 AM by James R Russell » Logged

Rune Werner Molnes
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« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2008, 01:59:34 PM »
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The AFi10 looks very promising indeed.

New announcements like this one is nice to see for people like my self, who has invested in the Leaf AFi- system. It seems to promise a system wich is somewhat future- proof and alive.

Beeing a landscape photographer, I only wish that it was available at the time I bought the AFi7. The cost of upgrading will probably prohibit me from investing in the AFi10 in the forseeable future, if ever. (My whife would probably want my signature on this one  

Anyway, I think that Leaf has announced a very competitive product with the AFi10, given a reasonable pricing.

Regards,

Rune Werner Molnes
www.runemolnes.com
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BJL
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« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2008, 02:03:01 PM »
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wasn't Leaf bought up by Kodak? Why don't they use Kodak sensors then?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211491\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It is a strange arrangement. Apparently Kodak was after other assets of Creo, has no interest in the Leaf MF products that came in the package, and so just leaves the Leaf MF step-children locked in the attic, continuing to make backs with Dalsa sensors.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2008, 02:10:24 PM »
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I would consider it a fine example of keeping a daughter company at arms length  This way whatever way it swings Kodak will benefit.

Interesting announcement. the 2:3 Leaf vs the 4:3 P65+, hmmm. Why? is one of my first questions. FPS is handy but in most magazines I only see about one of those vs a lot of verticals. 3:4 I find more interesting.

It does renew my interest in getting a Leaf back again, an A65s for my Digiflex
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 02:12:48 PM by Dustbak » Logged
hcubell
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« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2008, 02:11:33 PM »
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It is a strange arrangement. Apparently Kodak was after other assets of Creo, has no interest in the Leaf MF products that came in the package, and so just leaves the Leaf MF step-children locked in the attic, continuing to make backs with Dalsa sensors.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211512\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

When you see Leaf sourcing their sensors from a competitor rather than a Kodak affiliate that makes sensors, you realize why kodak is in the finanacial condition it is.
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BJL
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« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2008, 02:14:42 PM »
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What happened to all that tech talk we were submitted to years ago about the advantages of large photosites?? Did the laws of physics change in the past couple of years?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211509\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The laws of physics and mathematics did not change: that tech. talk misinterpreted them by ignoring the core fact that
The most significant measures are "light gathered and sensor noise per unit area of the image", not per pixel.

A sensor with somewhat more, somewhat smaller cells covering the same part of the image delivered by the lens give very similar effective noise levels and dynamic range; it also gives greater resolution, at least when noise levels are low enough. So apart possibility from prices being pushed higher by demand for more pixels, having more pixels in the same format is close to a "win-draw" situation.

This has been discussed a great deal in these forums recently, with respect to the coming 50MP H3DII-50 and 60MP P65+ backs.
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gwhitf
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« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2008, 02:19:06 PM »
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Agreed.  Photography should be creative control, not limited to the format of sensor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211504\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mr K,

I dare you -- go buy an XPan, and just see if your philosophy holds true. There's no way in hell that you CAN'T not shoot a landscape with it. Everywhere you go, you look for camels on the horizon, gurgling brooks, long wide mountainscapes -- even in the heart of Manhattan.

You look thru that long pano viewfinder, and it just says to you, "I just dare you to try to shoot a vertical".

So, I respectfully disagree. You always react and compose relative to the shape of your frame.
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peegeenyc
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« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2008, 02:32:18 PM »
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But why why whyyyyyyyy a 3:2 sensor???  im open minded about sensor shape...but this seems like a bad idea.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211509\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
agree - seems a weird move to me, and not of personal interest, (though am all for variety in the market place)
I always end up cropping my Canon 2:3 frames down and losing those expensive pixels I paid many $ for.  
a very odd move by Leaf. did they get second dibs at Dalsa?!

rotating sensor - nice, but should have been 3:4, really.

...Price?
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canmiya
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« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2008, 02:40:00 PM »
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When you see Leaf sourcing their sensors from a competitor rather than a Kodak affiliate that makes sensors, you realize why kodak is in the finanacial condition it is.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211516\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
wasn't leaf using a dalsa sensor before the kodak purchase?
the other way of looking at it is that perhaps kodak decided that they should leave well enough alone:  "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
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Khun_K
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« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2008, 02:45:19 PM »
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Mr K,

I dare you -- go buy an XPan, and just see if your philosophy holds true. There's no way in hell that you CAN'T not shoot a landscape with it. Everywhere you go, you look for camels on the horizon, gurgling brooks, long wide mountainscapes -- even in the heart of Manhattan.

You look thru that long pano viewfinder, and it just says to you, "I just dare you to try to shoot a vertical".

So, I respectfully disagree. You always react and compose relative to the shape of your frame.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211519\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No offense, I did use 2 Xpan back in the days I still shoot film, one just fitted with the 30mm and never take off, and another body use with different lenses. And I still believe what I comment is workable for me.  However, I sold my Xpan and Linhof 612PC and 617 few years ago and just work on digital now - but never say never, I still keep some film gear.  And of course, I use them often in vertical, but not as much as horizontally.  I even use them to shoot fashion.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 02:50:40 PM by Khun_K » Logged
peegeenyc
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« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2008, 04:29:40 PM »
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just realised this is not a 2:3 ratio,
its 2:3.1  

2:3 would be 6000:9000
the sensor is 6000:9288

most odd
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mtomalty
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« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2008, 05:45:28 PM »
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I've got a couple of billion subjects just screaming for this sensor !

Not a vertical in sight



[attachment=7676:attachment][attachment=7677:attachment][attachment=7678:attachm
ent]
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2008, 07:36:19 PM »
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yaya posted this on another forum:

http://www.leaf-photography.com/afi10
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211413\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This looks like a great option for panoramic shooting, not because the sensor is 2:3, but because it is the sensor with the highest number of pixels along the long edge.

A 4 or 5 images single row panorama would already go a long way, around 140 megapixel images in a few seconds with a relatively simple set up. Having 9000+ usable pixels on the long edge enables to do a print about 38 inch wide at 240 DPI, great way to use a 44 inch printer.

Wondering how much it is going to sell for... will they stay under 30,000 US$ or go crazy like Phaseone?

Regards,
Bernard
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2008, 07:53:35 PM »
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yaya posted this on another forum:

http://www.leaf-photography.com/afi10
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211413\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

A few questions:

- Can the back be bought standalone without the camera?
- What is the price and availability of the standalone back/full camera?-
- Can the back be used on the new Sinar architecture Arc?
- How clean are 1 minutes exposures?

Thank you.

Regards,
Bernard
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eronald
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« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2008, 10:24:45 PM »
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A few questions:

- Can the back be bought standalone without the camera?
- What is the price and availability of the standalone back/full camera?-
- Can the back be used on the new Sinar architecture Arc?
- How clean are 1 minutes exposures?

Thank you.

Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=211617\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Click. Flip. Click. Starfish !

Edmund
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BernardLanguillier
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« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2008, 11:03:39 PM »
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Click. Flip. Click. Starfish !

Edmund
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Desole, j'ai un peu de mal a te suivre la...  

a+
Bernard
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A few images online here!
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