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Author Topic: Adobe Systems Inc pricing policy  (Read 8201 times)
David Sutton
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« on: July 31, 2008, 04:58:59 AM »
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Many of us consider we are being overcharged for LR2 downloads compared to US prices. I am curious to know if anyone has complained to their national consumer protection organisations or their equivalent?
For example in the EU the European Commission may well be interested in the question of cross-border pricing or simply one of over-pricing. If you live in the UK you could begin with:
Euroconsumer

EUROPEAN CONSUMER
Director: Jediah Mayatt
1 Sylvan Court, Sylvan Way,
Southfields Business Park
BASILDON Essex UK SS15

T +44 (0)8456 04 05 03
F: +44 (0)8456 08 96 00
E: ecc@tsi.org.uk
W: www.ukecc.net

 

    * Part of the European Consumer Centres Network;
    * provides information and advice on consumer law in the UK and within the European Union and advice on how those laws can be enforced;
    * provides information, advice and assistance about problems with goods and services that you have bought in certain countries in Europe;
    * helps you to contact the trader to try and put things right.

 
and see if they can offer advice.
 Or if you live in Australia you could try the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission on 1300 302 502 .
Here we have the Commerce Commission. Though I don't think I'll have much luck as the Adobe NZ site redirected me to a nebulous Asia Pacific store for my LR purchase.
Cheers, David
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barryfitzgerald
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2008, 06:02:43 AM »
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I have to agree this is a noble effort.

Adobe are really not helping themselves on this one, it's about time they started pricing fairly for non USA purchases.

Of course the most obvious way to vent your frustration, is to simply not buy it.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2008, 08:28:33 AM »
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When the prices for all similar products are the same price all over the planet, lets talk.

My friends in upper state New York can go across the border and buy the identical drugs at a far lower price then I can in New Mexico.

Don't eve get me started on the price of gas.

This is a non issue. It cost what it cost where you are. Its either a good monetary proposition or it's not.
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Andrew Rodney
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Andy M
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2008, 09:02:26 AM »
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When the prices for all similar products are the same price all over the planet, lets talk.

My friends in upper state New York can go across the border and buy the identical drugs at a far lower price then I can in New Mexico.

Don't eve get me started on the price of gas.

This is a non issue. It cost what it cost where you are. Its either a good monetary proposition or it's not.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212025\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Utter poppycock. Since when have two wrongs made a right?

What justification can Adobe have for selling two exact same products, via the same outlets (online), for differing prices?

And the price of gas? You guys don't know the half of it...
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Mike_Dougan
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2008, 09:41:08 AM »
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When the prices for all similar products are the same price all over the planet, lets talk.

My friends in upper state New York can go across the border and buy the identical drugs at a far lower price then I can in New Mexico.

Don't eve get me started on the price of gas.

This is a non issue. It cost what it cost where you are. Its either a good monetary proposition or it's not.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212025\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


This IS an issue.......

Michael R sell's his product all round the world for the same price. As do 99.9% of all online web stores.

Let me clarify things a wee bit here, I'm British, work for an American Oil drilling company, get paid in US dollars, travel the world, frequently change location and where I'm living. Yet some hoe Adobe in there wisdom is stuck in 1970's small town America.

I buy everything from E Bay USA or from US based online store's (B&H, Booksmart Studio) because I get paid in $, band in $ and don't want the hassle of currency conversion. Yet when i register on Adobe US site I can't use my US cards as the address is in the Philippines, I can't change my registration with Adobe, thats fixed so I have to sign up with another e-mail address and then when I did and accepted to pay $138 for a product that you advertise at $99 and you even e-mailed me to say the product was available for a $99 upgrade.

A non issue my ARSE! (to use a good Scottish saying). Adobe is creaming it in and screwing non American consumers.

Tomorrow (as its well past 10PM here) I will have the pirated version however I'm willing to stump up the cash and pay for the product but I'm not prepared to put up with Adobe's bullshit.

I can guarantee that tomorrow morning when I get up, my purchase of Lightroom 2 will be rejected simply because I had to choose "Singapore" as my location for the online store to work but in the end my Credit Card has a Philippine address........ Transaction Denied!

Its funny however that I have bought several video's here from the LL and Michael R has never had an issue accepting my credit card (ok there was 1 time) and I pay the same price for the product as somebody in Australia or the USA.
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BFoto
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2008, 01:50:43 PM »
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When the prices for all similar products are the same price all over the planet, lets talk.

My friends in upper state New York can go across the border and buy the identical drugs at a far lower price then I can in New Mexico.

Don't eve get me started on the price of gas.

This is a non issue. It cost what it cost where you are. Its either a good monetary proposition or it's not.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212025\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I normally respect anything you have to say Andrew, but alas today you put your foot in it. Bull$%# mate.....thats a an arrogant American talking, shut it.

There is no excuse for Adobe to be overcharging there products the way it is obvious they do.

Australian consumers to be paying 70% more than US consumers. Thats right MR Rodney, 70%.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2008, 01:59:39 PM »
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I normally respect anything you have to say Andrew, but alas today you put your foot in it. Bull$%# mate.....thats a an arrogant American talking, shut it.

There is no excuse for Adobe to be overcharging there products the way it is obvious they do.

Australian consumers to be paying 70% more than US consumers. Thats right MR Rodney, 70%.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212106\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So you're saying every Australian product is the identical price there and here in the US?

I will refrain from commenting on the otherwise rude comments, I usually find mates on your side of the water a bit more polite in such public forums.

70% more. So this is a worthwhile expense or not? You don't HAVE to buy it.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2008, 02:35:29 PM »
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So you're saying every Australian product is the identical price there and here in the US?

I will refrain from commenting on the otherwise rude comments, I usually find mates on your side of the water a bit more polite in such public forums.

70% more. So this is a worthwhile expense or not? You don't HAVE to buy it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212109\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, appologies for the soap box rant. Nothing personal, but really, your comments were and are not really justified.

And, actually, i do have to buy it. Its the best out there....but that doesn not explain the pricing differences accross the world. Its no better for me as an aussie than it is for an american.

We generally pay more than the US for everything, actually the entire world does. The reason is simple...the US is the largest market economy and that is mainly (but not only) due to the cheapest gas prices in the world. (We were payng your current prices 7yrs ago!!)

As a result of the ability to deliver products at a cheaper rate, generally products are able to priced acordingly.

An internet download is not entirely relevant to this discussion.

And, unfortunately the perception is this - that adobe can not justify passing on the development and other costs of this products release on to other societies, just to keep US prices down.
'
Yet the irony of this assumption is that the international sales will actually do this. I would hassard a guess in saying that the entire Australian sales would be the same as sales in NY city.

Its not the exchange rate anymore ...0.95

So, why the price ripoff?
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DarkPenguin
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 02:50:39 PM »
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They clearly feel the market will bear it.  That's it.  They don't reduce the price in the US out of kindness.  If they thought they could get more they'd do it.

Also depending on the presence a company has in a given country they might have to charge more to justify having that presence.  Don't know if that's the case but it used to impact a company I used to work for.  The way it works in those cases is if the product cannot sell at that price then local group will disappear.

Out of curiosity what does apple charge for aperture around the world?  (<- that's a real question.)
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thierrylegros396
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2008, 03:21:41 PM »
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They clearly feel the market will bear it.  That's it.  They don't reduce the price in the US out of kindness.  If they thought they could get more they'd do it.

Also depending on the presence a company has in a given country they might have to charge more to justify having that presence.  Don't know if that's the case but it used to impact a company I used to work for.  The way it works in those cases is if the product cannot sell at that price then local group will disappear.

Out of curiosity what does apple charge for aperture around the world?  (<- that's a real question.)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212125\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The new e-phone is more than 500 Euros in Belgium, that means about more than 700 USD !!!

LR and Photoshop prices are 300% US prices !!!

That's not a joke !!!

NO COMMENT !
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2008, 07:00:12 PM »
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When the prices for all similar products are the same price all over the planet, lets talk. ...
... This is a non issue. It cost what it cost where you are. Its either a good monetary proposition or it's not.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212025\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Amen. I do not always agree with everything you say, nor the way you say it, but you got this one right.
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Slobodan

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Mike_Dougan
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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2008, 07:21:12 PM »
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As suspected, the e-mail this morning from Adobe,

Quote
Unfortunately we were unable to approve your order in the Adobe Store.

If you have any questions, please contact our Customer Service Department:

http://www.adobe.com/go/ols_ap_support/

Or to place a new order, contact your nearest reseller:
http://www.adobe.com/international/buy/#reseller

Your Order #AD000227391AP has been cancelled.

The Singapore online store was the nearest reseller, the boxed product will not hit these shore for at least another month.

This is like trying to buy the MobileMe family pack after 10 day's and about 20 try's still no luck there.

Adobe have a strange policy on pricing, maybe I'll just switch to Aperture.
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BFoto
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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2008, 07:25:47 PM »
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Amen. I do not always agree with everything you say, nor the way you say it, but you got this one right.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212182\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Um

Again, i think that you might want to refrain from comment unless you are an Adobe rep, being that you are from the US.

I just highlighted how in the US, you basically get everything cheaper than everyone else on thsi planet. So, of course to you this is a moot point, right? Well not for the rest of us adobe customers outside the US. Live in our shoes for a while and you will realise how good you have it, accross the board.

You're all moaning about gas prices now, and are seeing the effect it has on your socities economic standing. Mate, the last time gas was $4 a gallon in Australia was (anyone welcome to correct me, as its been a while since i was there),  around 7yrs ago. We are used to being screwed, we're just sick of it.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2008, 07:36:27 PM »
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Again, i think that you might want to refrain from comment unless you are an Adobe rep, being that you are from the US.

Adobe Rep? You mean an employee?

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You're all moaning about gas prices now, and are seeing the effect it has on your socities economic standing.

I don't know who's moaning, I certain am not. I think the cost of gas in the US should GO UP! And the price should be heavily taxed to pay for the necessary infrastructure (before anyone goes into doggie posturing about the tax, let me remind you that last year, 13 families who lost loved ones in a tragic bridge collapse here).

Since our gas has gone to a very reasonable $4 a gallon, the number of miles driven in this country has gone down by billions (the main negative the necessary taxes for the infrastructure), we've lost fewer to auto deaths.

That ExxonMobile , mad a shocking 11+ billion dollar profit in ONE quarter, and at best has 3% of the market is shocking! Adobe doesn't compare!
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 07:37:26 PM by digitaldog » Logged

Andrew Rodney
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2008, 08:01:00 PM »
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... I think that you might want to refrain from comment unless you are an Adobe rep, being that you are from the US.

I just highlighted how in the US, you basically get everything cheaper than everyone else on thsi planet. So, of course to you this is a moot point, right? Well not for the rest of us adobe customers outside the US. Live in our shoes for a while and you will realise how good you have it, accross the board...

So, 'being that I am from the US' somehow disqualifies me from discussion? Now that is a new form of discrimination... Americans need not apply?  

Never mind that I spent most of my life in Europe, both Western and Eastern, and only the last couple of years here in the States... so I lived in your shoes, mate, realized 'how good they have it' and decided to move over here.

But all this aside, this has nothing to do with nationalities, and everything to do with Economics 101.

Btw, this has been debated ad nauseam on internet boards before, and on this board as well:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....opic=23821&st=0

But allow me one observation: coming from Eastern Europe, I am often surprised how ignorant some people in the West could be when it comes to understanding basics of free market economies, in spite of the fact they had several centuries to 'get lt'.

But back to the subject: since this is a photographic forum, I will refrain from going into detailed economic analysis of the multitude of factors that shape pricing in each market. Suffice to say that different markets will always have different size, different supply and demand, different uniformity (e.g., common language), different infrastructure, different price and income elasticity, different spending pattern, different taxation, etc., and, as a result, will always have different pricing even for the same product.

In a free market economy, companies exist to maximize profit, and consumers try to minimize their cost. Companies are free to set whatever price they can get away with, and consumers are free to buy or not to buy at that price, or to buy a competitive product. There is no such thing as a "just" price, hence there is not such thing as an outrageous price differential, nor there is a need to justify or explain pricing. In other words, the pricing differential is quite normal, legitimate, and can not be labeled "outrageous". We do not consider the differential between day and night to be outrageous either, we just take it as it is.

Selling identical product at different prices is known in Economics 101 as Price Discrimination. Contrary to popular belief based on the use of the word "discrimination", it is not illegal to price discriminate. On the contrary, it is widely in use and also taught in every business school as a preferred weapon of choice in maximizing profit. Two conditions for price discrimination to work: proper customer segmentation (i.e., defining customer groups willing to pay more, e.g. UK customers, or business travelers) and ability to put up barriers between those groups.

And no, I am not in any way associated with Adobe.
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Slobodan

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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2008, 08:10:21 PM »
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Many of us consider we are being overcharged for LR2 downloads compared to US prices. I am curious to know if anyone has complained to their national consumer protection organisations or their equivalent? ... and see if they can offer advice.

I think European authorities are quite busy 'protecting consumers' from their own (i.e., European) companies (although it is certainly more politically opportune to attack American companies):

"... In a survey of car prices within the EU, the commission said the pretax price of the Peugeot 307 could differ by 30 percent from the cheapest and most expensive markets... The price of the Volkswagen Golf differs by up to 34 percent ..."  International Herald Tribune, July 18, 2002.

Or:

"... Dramatic price differences... have become rarer with the start of the euro currency zone in 2002, but people can still make big savings by going abroad to buy a car..."  International Herald Tribune, January 29, 2008.
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Slobodan

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Mike_Dougan
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« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2008, 08:30:23 PM »
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Its pretty obvious to me that Adobe doesn't want to listen on this matter.

I tried to buy it but you don't want my money so I'm off down the market to get the $4 DVD.

I could understand your argument Mr.Rodney if this was the boxed product we were talking about, but its not, its a digital download. (Apple sells boxed products, I've not seen any downloads on there international sites).
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BFoto
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« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2008, 08:31:10 PM »
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Economics 101...

um, no that was circa 20th century....

If you new anything about the global economy of today, you would know that that is no longer a valid assumption, especially in the IT world where the geo-economic boundaries are far more transparent.

Am happy to bebate this off line with you if so choose, so as to keep it out of here. Feel free to email me.
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Schewe
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« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2008, 09:52:43 PM »
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Its pretty obvious to me that Adobe doesn't want to listen on this matter.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212200\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Well, many people seem to think Adobe is some big, massive multi-national company with offices in every country they sell into to...that is not the case. Adobe is a US based corporation with some real "offices" in other countries...there's a German corporate office with staff and engineering as well as Japan and India (that I know about). In many countries Adobe works with semi-independent marketing and distribution companies. Are they a part of Adobe? Yes, in that there's a contractual relationship. Does Adobe US have total control over those companies? No... Can Adobe US dictate the price the local companies charge? I don't think so.

I won't defend the appearance of unfair pricing....but I suggest that the situation is a lot more complex than most people realize. If you want YOUR country's pricing to be more in line with the US, I would seriously suggest you go after the people in those local branches (in whatever form they may be) and request more fair pricing. If the local companies feel the heat there will be more likelihood they will feel the need to change the pricing. This is also one of the reasons why somebody in Europe (for example) can't buy software from the US store...because there are agreements in place for regional distribution and the regional sales must be done regionally.

As far as the Photoshop marketing, engineering and management team is concerned, they hear you all...but there's diddly-squat they can do about it. So, if you want change, it will have to come country by country on your own turf.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2008, 09:56:49 PM by Schewe » Logged
Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2008, 10:31:03 PM »
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Economics 101...

um, no that was circa 20th century....

If you new anything about the global economy of today, you would know that that is no longer a valid assumption, especially in the IT world where the geo-economic boundaries are far more transparent.
...
Ah, yes... I must have forgotten... laws of economics are so last century... my bad.

The last time I heard that argument was during the Internet companies bubble: "... old criteria for company valuation can not be applied to the 'ah, so 21-century' Internet economy..."
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