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Author Topic: Homeland security  (Read 4747 times)
schaubild
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« on: August 01, 2008, 11:50:53 PM »
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Why do people complain about censorship in China and ignore what's happening open and officially sanctioned under the cover "homeland security". Is it just me or is this kind of acting against civil rights preventing others from travelling to the US?

I visited the Southwest numerous time for the last 25 years, but now it's enough.  

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8080103030.html
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Bradley Proctor
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2008, 12:13:14 AM »
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While I don't necessarily agree with all the policies of the DHS, as an employee (I'm not customs or immigration though), I can tell you that none of us WANTS to go to all that trouble.  We just want to do our job and go home at the end of the day.  So I can assure you that while the policy might say we can take your laptop, copy it's contents and share it with all our friends for no reason what so ever.  We really don't want to go to all that trouble unless we really, REALLY have to.  Because doing anything like this is just a real pain in the behind and makes for a bad day.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 12:18:50 AM by bproctor » Logged

dalethorn
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2008, 05:25:37 AM »
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One of the problems here is the public mindset that "the govt." is some arcane bureaucracy far away from everyday life.  Unfortunately in the U.S., the govt. is about every third person, directly or indirectly, and when they share your data, it's likely to be with someone in your neighborhood who works out of the federal bldg. down the street.
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Petrjay
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« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2008, 08:02:31 AM »
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Why do people complain about censorship in China and ignore what's happening open and officially sanctioned under the cover "homeland security". Is it just me or is this kind of acting against civil rights preventing others from travelling to the US?

I visited the Southwest numerous time for the last 25 years, but now it's enough. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8080103030.html
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212488\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The differences between China and the U.S. should be obvious to anyone with even a smattering of education. In the U.S., there are legislators like Russ Feingold who are free to introduce legislation that is designed to curb such practices. There are also civil rights and business travel groups here such as  the ones described in the article that are free to make their displeasure known. Such activities in The Peoples' Republic of China are often rewarded with prison terms. From the number of contented foreign visitors I see on a regular basis here, I'd have to conclude that large numbers of travelers are crossing the border without a great deal of difficulty. I've been inconvenienced and had my belongings searched on several occasions while visiting other countries, including Spain and the U.K. to name but two. Those folks are free to make their own rules, as are we in the U.S. No one should feel that they are under the slightest obligation to come here if they find border security too oppressive for their taste.
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mikeseb
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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2008, 10:10:27 AM »
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Why do people complain about censorship in China and ignore what's happening open and officially sanctioned under the cover "homeland security". Is it just me or is this kind of acting against civil rights preventing others from travelling to the US?

I visited the Southwest numerous time for the last 25 years, but now it's enough.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8080103030.html
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212488\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Are you out of your mind? Can your anti-American/anti-Bush beliefs have completely neutralized whatever intellect you once possessed?

If you really want to know the answer, visit Washington DC and stand at the White House fence, and call George W. Bush or Dick Cheney any ugly name you can think of, loudly enough to be heard by the White House police standing by. [I'd not threaten them, however.] Say whatever you wish about US domestic or international policy. It's not likely you'll say anything ruder or uglier than what has been said by Congress the past eight years; but go ahead, be my guest.

Now, travel to Beijing and do the same thing. Tell us afterward, once the Chinese have released you from prison and you've regained your eyesight and short-term memory, in which country your civil rights were better respected.

You have no "right" to travel to the US. The US chooses to welcome foreign visitors, just as other countries choose to welcome or discourage the same, for its own reasons. You are expected to comply with reasonable security measures while you are here, just as US citizens are obligated to do the same when abroad.

"Reasonable" is a standard that shifts based on what's happening locally and elsewhere, and on who's making that determination. Intelligent people can differ on what constitutes "reasonable" security measures.

I hope you will continue to visit our country; and that our people will continue to make you feel welcome here. It is a vast, beautiful land.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2008, 10:10:57 AM by mikeseb » Logged

michael sebastian
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2008, 12:58:09 PM »
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I was recently in Washington and saw on display more of this anti-American anti-Bush propaganda.  It is entitled the "Bill of Rights".  You might want to read it.

Paul
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2008, 04:24:37 PM »
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The differences between China and the U.S. should be obvious to anyone with even a smattering of education...
Wow... are you implying that an advanced democracy has certain advantages over a totalitarian regime? Who would have thought of that...

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... No one should feel that they are under the slightest obligation to come here if they find border security too oppressive for their taste.

I am puzzled why you and some other posters assume that the policy in question is not affecting U.S. citizens as well?

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...I've been inconvenienced and had my belongings searched on several occasions while visiting other countries, ...

Sure, we all have been... but those searches (at least in civilized societies) were for tangible goods (and prohibited, like drugs, guns and bombs), with the purpose of preventing them from entering the country (or airplane). The searches described in the article are for the information contained in laptops and other devices. Whatever information is there it does not need that laptop in order to enter the country... it can be transmitted via Internet and viewed around the globe (in contrast to drugs or bombs). No wonder that the head of the Homeland Security cites as the biggest discoveries "violent jihadist material" and (sic) child pornography, both of which circulate freely on the Internet. What is so special about crossing the border with it? Why not perform random house searches? I can guarantee you there will be tons of prohibited materials, both tangible and non-tangible.  Dang, if only the 4th amendment would not stand in the way, we would be living in a virtually blissful, crime-free environment.
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Slobodan

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« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 10:12:22 AM »
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You have no "right" to travel to the US. The US chooses to welcome foreign visitors, just as other countries choose to welcome or discourage the same, for its own reasons. You are expected to comply with reasonable security measures while you are here, just as US citizens are obligated to do the same when abroad.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212557\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The problem I have with this policy is that US citizens are also subject to the same searches when we return from travel.  US citizens DO have a RIGHT to return home.  What ever happend to the concept of needing a warrant to perform a search.  Are we now assumed to be guilty until proven innocent?  We are on a very slippery slope here, and it's time to stand up and say "NO MORE".  How many more freedoms are we willing to give up in the name of "safety".  We seem to be just short of having somebody come into our homes without a warrant to take stuff just in case there MIGHT be something illegal there.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2008, 10:39:22 AM »
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Last night the Scifi channel ran a double episode of Star Trek Next Gen where Picard was captured, declared to be "not a legit prisoner of war", and tortured.  Every aspect of the post-911 scam was detailed in this TV drama, filmed years *before* 911.  So an intelligent person sees that the *intent* of whatever the govt. declares through the Big Media is just a cover story, and the real story is more predictable: Money, property, resources, taxation authority, etc.  So the intelligent person learns the game and quits fantasizing about "rights", which were instituted to keep the govt. out of the bootleggers' warehouses circa 1776.
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Bradley Proctor
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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2008, 01:10:59 PM »
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Sure, we all have been... but those searches (at least in civilized societies) were for tangible goods (and prohibited, like drugs, guns and bombs), with the purpose of preventing them from entering the country (or airplane). The searches described in the article are for the information contained in laptops and other devices. Whatever information is there it does not need that laptop in order to enter the country... it can be transmitted via Internet and viewed around the globe (in contrast to drugs or bombs).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=212630\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So... you think that the point of searching a laptop is to try and keep the information out of the country?
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dalethorn
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2008, 08:36:21 PM »
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So... you think that the point of searching a laptop is to try and keep the information out of the country?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=213458\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The purpose of searching a laptop is to discover things, like finding free money.  If you search enough of them, you find all kinds of neat stuff.  Who says the govt. doesn't have a sense of humor, or lacks imagination?  I shoulda taken that job.  Check out 2600 mag sometime, just to get a hint.  Oh yeah, and "encrypted" stuff?  Ha ha ho ho he he.
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Slobodan Blagojevic
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2008, 11:41:11 PM »
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So... you think that the point of searching a laptop is to try and keep the information out of the country?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=213458\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Frankly, I do not see any point in it, other than boiling the proverbial frog slowly. Maybe you can enlighten us?
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Slobodan

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michael
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2008, 06:49:41 AM »
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Not to crimp an interesting discussion, but let's remember to keep it civil, and that the purpose of this board is discussions about matters related to photography.

Michael
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Sunesha
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2008, 08:47:39 AM »
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Do they copy your computer on routine in the states now? I just read in the swedish Media that can do it. But I am beeing a bit sceptic as usual I wonder how often this happens...

I havnt been into the states in 1 year.

So I wonder how much the security had gone up since then. Sure the security is always not fun. I always avoid JFK for that reason as it is very boring to get in. Not a biggie, only boring part I had was had take my shoes up at some airport.

Just so I know if gonna encrypt my computer or not.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 08:53:48 AM by Sunesha » Logged

Daniel Sunebring, Malmoe, Sweden
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Non-native english speaker and dyslexian, so excuse my mistake in grammar and spelling."
DarkPenguin
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2008, 10:59:34 AM »
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This is from about 5 years ago ....

Stephen Colbert: So you're living in a police state.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2008, 12:30:25 PM »
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All humor aside, no matter where you go, be prepared to surrender your computer and all backup media for inspection.  If you have any encrypted files, be prepared to decrypt them in the presence of the authorities, and/or surrender the passwords.  If you fail to decrypt user files for any reason, you may be held in contempt of court.  It's much better to be in a cooperative frame of mind at all times than to take a defensive posture when being inspected.
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