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Author Topic: 2690WUXi-BK or ColorEdge CG222W?  (Read 29478 times)
Czornyj
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« Reply #40 on: August 19, 2008, 04:25:49 AM »
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no. The fist image just shows that the display is not matched to the right gamma curve.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215891\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It was matched, but I didn't take the photograph from the perfect straight angle. PVA shows a small contrast variations on the side of the panel, that is beeing observed at an angle - it's not really very problematic on a small screen, but when the screen is larger - 24" - 27" - 30" it's getting worse and may become annoying.

This is not a big issue, and neither IPS panels are perfect - for example PVA has lower (better) black point, and do not exhibit "black leaking". But for some reason IPS are still preferable in most high-end graphic LCDs - like Eizo CG211, CG221, Quato IntelliProof/IntelliProof Excellence series, and Nec Spectraview series.

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what monitors are these images on please?...

It was SA-SFT based Nec 2190UXi and S-PVA based Samsung 214T:
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 04:28:28 AM by Czornyj » Logged

tho_mas
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« Reply #41 on: August 19, 2008, 05:02:17 AM »
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But for some reason IPS are still preferable in most high-end graphic LCDs - like Eizo CG211, CG221, Quato IntelliProof/IntelliProof Excellence series, and Nec Spectraview series.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215948\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
True. If the price would not matter me I would go for one of the Quatos as the calibration software is great and has correction curves for each Quato panel. Too, Quato's support is extremely good.
But the displays discussed here are in a price range you have to make compromises. And the strongest argument - from my point of view - is hardware calibration (and Color Navigator 5.1 contains correction curves for the displays of the CG series, too).
In addition... I think the CGs play in a different league than the Samsung 214T. Eizo does more than just put Eizo-stickers on the panels. The panel surface, the backlight, the internal technology... is made by Eizo. So even if Eizo uses Samsung panels there is a difference.
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Czornyj
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« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2008, 05:27:30 AM »
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True. If the price would not matter me I would go for one of the Quatos as the calibration software is great and has correction curves for each Quato panel. Too, Quato's support is extremely good.
But the displays discussed here are in a price range you have to make compromises. And the strongest argument - from my point of view - is hardware calibration (and Color Navigator 5.1 contains correction curves for the displays of the CG series, too).
In addition... I think the CGs play in a different league than the Samsung 214T. Eizo does more than just put Eizo-stickers on the panels. The panel surface, the backlight, the internal technology... is made by Eizo. So even if Eizo uses Samsung panels there is a difference.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My 2190UXi has 12 bit hardware calibration and IPS type panel  

Samsung 214T definietly plays in a different legue. But even Eizo can't make a miracle with S-PVA panel type, see for yourself:
[a href=\"http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/lcd_butcher.png]http://members.chello.pl/m.kaluza/lcd_butcher.png[/url]
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 05:28:55 AM by Czornyj » Logged

tho_mas
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« Reply #43 on: August 19, 2008, 05:30:30 AM »
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My 2190UXi has 12 bit hardware calibration and IPS type panel  
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215958\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If 21'' is big enough this is certainly a very good choice!
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Czornyj
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« Reply #44 on: August 19, 2008, 05:47:26 AM »
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If 21'' is big enough this is certainly a very good choice!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215960\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

A larger 2690WUXi is not that bad, either. I calibrated 2 units of my friends and they seemed to be very nice.
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Morris Taub
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« Reply #45 on: August 19, 2008, 06:00:41 AM »
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A larger 2690WUXi is not that bad, either. I calibrated 2 units of my friends and they seemed to be very nice.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215964\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i guess both of these, the 2190 and the 2690 are spectraview models?...

the spectraview models here in france are really overpriced...but not too bad for the models without about 900 and 1150...

just an example, at Graphic Reseau the 2190 sv is 1673 euros and the 2690 sv is 1864 euros...

is it possible to get good calibration results using an eye one display two puck and the software if the monitor i buy isn't the spectraview ll model?...

thanks...

M
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Czornyj
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« Reply #46 on: August 19, 2008, 06:07:40 AM »
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i guess both of these, the 2190 and the 2690 are spectraview models?...

Not at all - I bought Spectraview II in US, and it calibrates any 2190UXi/2690WUXi, no matter what version it is. In panels with older firmware it's also posible to switch 2190UXi/2690WUXi to Spectraview mode, then it works with basICColor Display 4.1.8, (aka Spectraview Display, that is attached to each european Nec Spectraview).
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 06:08:07 AM by Czornyj » Logged

Morris Taub
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« Reply #47 on: August 19, 2008, 06:38:38 AM »
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Not at all - I bought Spectraview II in US, and it calibrates any 2190UXi/2690WUXi, no matter what version it is. In panels with older firmware it's also posible to switch 2190UXi/2690WUXi to Spectraview mode, then it works with basICColor Display 4.1.8, (aka Spectraview Display, that is attached to each european Nec Spectraview).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215969\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

hmmm, thanks for this info czornyj...i may just buy one of these, see how it goes with my ione display two puck and software...if i'm not content maybe pick up the nec software next time i'm in the states or have it shipped to a relative/friend and have them send it here to me in france...

shame though, i've read the nec software and puck are xrite like i have...maybe the software has some specific nec functions to calibrate the hardware lut?...i've read something like this...

thanks again...

M
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Czornyj
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« Reply #48 on: August 19, 2008, 06:59:43 AM »
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hmmm, thanks for this info czornyj...i may just buy one of these, see how it goes with my ione display two puck and software...if i'm not content maybe pick up the nec software next time i'm in the states or have it shipped to a relative/friend and have them send it here to me in france...

shame though, i've read the nec software and puck are xrite like i have...maybe the software has some specific nec functions to calibrate the hardware lut?...i've read something like this...

thanks again...

M
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=215974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If you alredy have i1, then you don't have to buy the Spectraview II + colorimeter kit, just get the SV II profiler alone - it costs 99$ and it works with any i1 colorimeter. Certainly, it has specific Nec functions, and it utilizes the internal 12bit LUT of the Nec, so the calibration process is 100% automatic and more precise.

After you'll get your Nec, enter the advanced menu, go to tag "E", and press "select" and "down" button simultaneously. If you'll enter the "secret" spectraview mode menu, you don't necessarly need to buy Spectraview II in US - you can buy basICColor display (99 Euro), and it will support hardware calibration in Nec (with Spectraview mode on).
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 07:01:09 AM by Czornyj » Logged

digitaldog
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« Reply #49 on: August 19, 2008, 07:51:41 AM »
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This is difficult to answer for several reasons.  One is , that this is really non-disclosure information. Eizo does have a LED backlit on the slate for mid 2009. I predict it will be somewhat expensive,

Seems all Eizo's products are expensive and one wonders why they refuse to supply someone like Karl Lang of Lumetia units for outside, independent testing (as NEC has) and how they can continue to ask these prices without supporting evidence of the cost to performance  benefit.

By the time this so called LED is out, who knows the availability and price of the new Dreamcolor unit from HP which is being heavily discussed now on the ColorSync user list. Here's the original post by someone who knows a thing or two about display technology:

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Hi to all,

The HP 2480zx is a 24 inch display, not thirty.  It has a gamut that exceeds the primaries for Adobe RGB and normally meets the Digital Cinema P3 gamut, but that may be just missed due to LED variability so it is labeled P3 emulation.  The display has a radically different numeric pipeline.  It has a complete matrix shaper look up table capability. The display can accept dual link multi-byte 10 bit image data and the pipeline works to 12 bits.  The LCD module has a true 10 bit interface.  This means that full 10 bit data is being passed to the display module which is very unusual.  The LUTS are 12 bit deep.  The matrix multiplier allows the display to change color spaces instantly.  The display has an LED backlight and that is used to control luminance and white point.  This display has been designed to work at lower luminances.  It can be adjusted from 45 to 250 NITS.  This lower range is needed in the Motion Picture Market.  The Contrast Ratio is 1000:1 or greater.  The display is aimed primarily in the video and motion picture market place, where they have a number of color space standards based upon media and content delivery. The "shift on the fly" color space emulation is very suited to color evaluation in these markets.    For the photographic and Graphic arts community, the display's gamut and it's ability to handle greyscale ramps without banding artifacts should be appreciated.   I have never seen gray ramp performance as good as this on an LCD.  It will take a while  for the average graphics card to catch up with the interface capibility of this display. I wish HP lots of luck with this design.  It is a radical departure from typical displays and it hits a price point that is well below most of the professional displays in the video and motion picture market.

Regards,
Tom L.
Director Video and Motion Picture Technology
X-Rite.

Oh, you wanted both a wide gamut and sRGB (among other) units? Here you go. OK Eizo, your call.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #50 on: August 19, 2008, 07:59:33 AM »
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I make this prediction because of what we know about LED now. Short lifespan...

That's absolutely untrue! LED's lifespan is far longer then CCFL by a double factor. (25K versus 50K hours for the NEC: http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200602_neclcddisplay.pdf)

Maybe he's saying the lifespan for LED's as a backlight in displays is short, to be replaced by some other technology? IF so, his comment about a  Eizo LED coming makes no sense.
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Andrew Rodney
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Morris Taub
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« Reply #51 on: August 19, 2008, 10:55:48 AM »
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If you alredy have i1, then you don't have to buy the Spectraview II + colorimeter kit, just get the SV II profiler alone - it costs 99$ and it works with any i1 colorimeter. Certainly, it has specific Nec functions, and it utilizes the internal 12bit LUT of the Nec, so the calibration process is 100% automatic and more precise.

After you'll get your Nec, enter the advanced menu, go to tag "E", and press "select" and "down" button simultaneously. If you'll enter the "secret" spectraview mode menu, you don't necessarly need to buy Spectraview II in US - you can buy basICColor display (99 Euro), and it will support hardware calibration in Nec (with Spectraview mode on).
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I read today on the 'open photography forum' that NEC, beginning with their 2008 spectraview monitors, changed them so that this 'workaround' is no longer an option...i wonder if your 2190 or your friends 2690's are 2008 models...

Now, I just read this, not sure it's true, or not...I sent off an email to basiCColor to ask them about it, no word yet...here's the link to the discussion if you're interested...it's quite long...it's sorta what we've been talking about...

[a href=\"http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5716]http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forum...read.php?t=5716[/url]

check out a few posts by Michael Fontana, they start near the bottom of the second page...he seems to have talked with NEC in europe and starting in 2008 he says...

 "I found out, that NEC has disabled in the 2008 (years) version of the 2690 WUXI the option to hardware-calibrate.

So this is different from the 2007-modell! With the 2007 one, it still was possible to get these options.

So basically NEC sells in Europe a hardware-calibratable display, but cripples it down to software-calibrating, only!! In the US, everbody gets the hardware-calibratable ones..

.....geeez; I better don't write, what I think about this company. Messing up with not less than 8 different names for a similar product, whithout specifying it."

NEC europe seems incredibly...ignorant...not sure that's the right word...

M
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Czornyj
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« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2008, 11:05:56 AM »
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I read today on the 'open photography forum' that NEC, beginning with their 2008 spectraview monitors, changed them so that this 'workaround' is no longer an option...i wonder if your 2190 or your friends 2690's are 2008 models...

Now, I just read this, not sure it's true, or not...I sent off an email to basiCColor to ask them about it, no word yet...here's the link to the discussion if you're interested...it's quite long...it's sorta what we've been talking about...

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forum...read.php?t=5716

check out a few posts by Michael Fontana, they start near the bottom of the second page...he seems to have talked with NEC in europe and starting in 2008 he says...

 "I found out, that NEC has disabled in the 2008 (years) version of the 2690 WUXI the option to hardware-calibrate.

So this is different from the 2007-modell! With the 2007 one, it still was possible to get these options.

So basically NEC sells in Europe a hardware-calibratable display, but cripples it down to software-calibrating, only!! In the US, everbody gets the hardware-calibratable ones..

.....geeez; I better don't write, what I think about this company. Messing up with not less than 8 different names for a similar product, whithout specifying it."

NEC europe seems incredibly...ignorant...not sure that's the right word...

M
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216035\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My 2190UXi is that new version, with "workaround" blocked (or rather changed) in the firmware, so I can't use basICColor display profiler (nor Spectraview display). But US Spectraview II works flawlessly, so it's really not a big problem.

Don't even ask basICColor, they'll never admit, that hardware calibration in non-Spectraview Nec is possible.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 11:08:59 AM by Czornyj » Logged

Morris Taub
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« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2008, 11:18:16 AM »
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My 2190UXi is that new version, with "workaround" blocked (or rather changed) in the firmware, so I can't use basICColor display profiler (nor Spectraview display). But US Spectraview II works flawlessly, so it's really not a big problem.

Don't even ask basICColor, they'll never admit, that hardware calibration in non-Spectraview Nec is possible.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216041\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, I think you're right...I'm not expecting help from basiccolor...

but it does sound like nec europe disables their version of the 2190uxi if you don't get the spectraview ll model...like they disable the ability to do a hardware calibration...

I tell you honest, i wouldn't mind paying for it if they weren't taking such a high premium for it here in france...it's just outrageous...

i wonder if i could live with the 2190uxi, software calibration, no hardware access?...

I'm still gonna try in the next two or three weeks to check out some design studios in my area, see what they're using, who knows, maybe i'll come across a NEC or Eizo so I can take a look for myself...

thanks again...

M
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Czornyj
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« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2008, 11:39:48 AM »
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I tell you honest, i wouldn't mind paying for it if they weren't taking such a high premium for it here in france...it's just outrageous...

I agree - this is sick, not only in France.
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msbc
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« Reply #55 on: August 19, 2008, 08:23:52 PM »
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Same thing happens in Australia. I sent this enquiry to NEC Australia:

I already own the 2690 MultiSync version. How do I purchase the
SpectarView II profile software for use with this monitor?

They replied:

SpectraView 11 is only available in the US not in Australia, and has
nothing to do with NEC Australia.

To which I replied:

The NEC Australia web site page for the 2690 MultiSync states "Supports
an internal programmable 12-bit lookup table (LUT) for calibration". So,
my question is what calibration software can calibrate this LUT?

And they replied:

The LCD2690WUXi-BK does have a Programmable LUT, this means if you turn
the screen off and then turn on by pressing the on button and the input
button at the same time and then pressing the down arrow, it will bring
up another menu which will allow you to go in and adjust the LUT
manually. This is an inbuilt feature. Actually programming the LUT using
a calibration software, you need to purchase the SpectraView 2690.

To put this in context - the MSRP for the MultiSync 2690 is $2140 while the SpectraView version is $3315!
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mbalensiefer
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« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2008, 12:39:16 AM »
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The HP 2480zx...

 Where can I find this online?
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John77
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« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2008, 02:46:28 PM »
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Hello,

About s-pva vs h-ips, the following issue, among other things, made me choose a Nec 2690 (1019€, Cyberport.de). Unfortunatelly not an SV as the price in Europe does not meet my rather amateur status...

The issue I want to stress here is the shadow detail that blend to black when you are looking right in front of the s-pva screen.  Details appear as soon as your looking sideways. Not really usefull, I think.

Here, you will see an example. I found these images on DPreview (yes, I know...). Unfortunately, I cannot credit them as I do not rebember from which thread I downloaded them. I was able to see exactly the same issue on a Lacie 324 (the only s-pva Lacie).

As said, the only experience about s-pva is the Lacie 324, I don't known if Eizo s-pva have the same problem or with such magnitude.

s-pva (left: perpendicular shot, right: shot sideways)


Nec h-ips
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Etienne Cassar
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« Reply #58 on: September 01, 2008, 07:06:29 AM »
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Yes, I think you're right...I'm not expecting help from basiccolor...

but it does sound like nec europe disables their version of the 2190uxi if you don't get the spectraview ll model...like they disable the ability to do a hardware calibration...

I tell you honest, i wouldn't mind paying for it if they weren't taking such a high premium for it here in france...it's just outrageous...

i wonder if i could live with the 2190uxi, software calibration, no hardware access?...

I'm still gonna try in the next two or three weeks to check out some design studios in my area, see what they're using, who knows, maybe i'll come across a NEC or Eizo so I can take a look for myself...

thanks again...

M
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=216042\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I am thinking of buying a new monitor too and like you couldn't believe that NEC make such a difference in price for the same monitor just because one is capable of harware calibration, while the other is not.  So I decided to ask for help at the shop where I am planning to buy it, and the reason I was given was that the 2 key differences between the Multisync and Spectraview monitors are the firmware that controls the monitor and, that each Spectraview is individually selected and tested in the factory for colour accuracy and uniformity. Only then is it certified a Spectraview level monitor.  The Spectraview also come with a hood and the profiler software to automatically set up the screen with a suitable monitor calibrator.  The software is only available with the Spectraview level monitors. To profile a Multisync you will have to use the Eye-One Match software or similar and configure the monitor settings by hand.
So probably I'll go for the Spectraview model.

Etienne.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 07:23:25 AM by ecassar » Logged
MarkF
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« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2008, 12:44:02 AM »
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I am thinking of buying a new monitor too and like you couldn't believe that NEC make such a difference in price for the same monitor just because one is capable of harware calibration, while the other is not.  So I decided to ask for help at the shop where I am planning to buy it, and the reason I was given was that the 2 key differences between the Multisync and Spectraview monitors are the firmware that controls the monitor and, that each Spectraview is individually selected and tested in the factory for colour accuracy and uniformity. Only then is it certified a Spectraview level monitor.  The Spectraview also come with a hood and the profiler software to automatically set up the screen with a suitable monitor calibrator.  The software is only available with the Spectraview level monitors. To profile a Multisync you will have to use the Eye-One Match software or similar and configure the monitor settings by hand.
So probably I'll go for the Spectraview model.

Etienne.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218665\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

 The MultiSync calibrates perfectly with the Spectraview2 software with the eye one. The trouble is buying it if you're not in the US. I have a new 2690 (2 weeks old) and the "secret menu" states the date as January 2006, so maybe I was lucky and got an older model before they crippled the firmware? Either way, this is one outstanding display.
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