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Author Topic: Adobe DNG beta profiles  (Read 4915 times)
Sunesha
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« on: August 12, 2008, 07:39:20 AM »
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I must first bring my praise upon this great addition. It really have turned out to be a new way to have new "starting point". The adobe Standard beta profile. Brings the reds and browns color more to my liking. Even that I profiled my camera I find the adobe standard profile more to my taste in color.

I just wonder if I profile my camera with new Adobe beta dng profile software if my profile will be better than that I did with old ACR calibration script ?

I had some trouble as I did my profile at friends photo studio to have controlled lighting. So I have problems to do my profiling with own range off equipment. So I wonder if shall make the bother.

I also wonder if in the future you do new profiling directly from lightroom ?

For those rare occations I need quite accurate colors, for example product photography.

Cheers,
Daniel
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Daniel Sunebring, Malmoe, Sweden
Homepage: Sunesha.se
Non-native english speaker and dyslexian, so excuse my mistake in grammar and spelling."
budjames
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« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2008, 07:30:52 PM »
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I compared a bunch of RAW shots from my Canon 1DsMkIII including shots of my daughter holding a Macbeth ColorChecker in full sunlight using the Camera Standard Beta preset in LR 2 to the same images opened up in default mode in DPP. The color is spot on to DPP.

Through some experimentation I found that in LR if I set the sharpness to 36-40 and lowered to color noise reduction to 0 from the default of 25, that the images and color are almost a dead match for the default settings in DPP. Skins tones are much improved without having to play with the colors in LR.

I have convinced myself that I can now get the nice colors and detail of DPP in LR without the frustration of using DPP and putting up with its terrible workflow and nonstandard nomenclature ("trim" vs crop for instance). I'm a happy guy.

Thank you Jeff Schewe and Michael Reichmann for the tip in the LR 2.0 tutorial.

Bud James
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« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 07:31:48 PM by budjames » Logged

Bud James
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madmanchan
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 12:58:46 PM »
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Daniel, building a custom profile in the DNG Profile Editor will be faster and more accurate in general than the various calibration scripts because the new profile format has more degrees of freedom and can really optimize for all 18 color patches at once.
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Sunesha
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2008, 01:56:03 AM »
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Daniel, building a custom profile in the DNG Profile Editor will be faster and more accurate in general than the various calibration scripts because the new profile format has more degrees of freedom and can really optimize for all 18 color patches at once.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220150\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks just the answer I needed.

After thinking about it I had my old files off my colorchecker from the shoots I did 6 months ago. I just forgot about it. But your post refreshed my memory.

I must say I think notice a difference. But it is way easier than old style profiling.

Thanks Eric.

Cheers,
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Daniel Sunebring, Malmoe, Sweden
Homepage: Sunesha.se
Non-native english speaker and dyslexian, so excuse my mistake in grammar and spelling."
01af
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2008, 07:18:38 AM »
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Am I the only one who detests the Adobe Standard beta 1 profiles? At least for Konica-Minolta and Sony DSLR cameras, orange and brownish hues turn red, red hues turn purplish-red, and people look like they were blushing. Awful!

That said, the Adobe DNG Profile Editor is a great thing. Well done! I just don't like the new Adobe Standard profiles. The ACR 4.4 profiles are way better.

I am aware that there is a discrepancy between accurate colours and pleasing colours. I wish Adobe would provide standard profiles for both, and explicitly name them accordingly so we know which is which.

-- Olaf
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madmanchan
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2008, 07:44:39 AM »
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Olaf, we will be releasing updated beta profiles before long and perhaps some of your concerns will be addressed. That said, we have received a lot of positive feedback from existing Sony users about the new Adobe Standard beta 1 profiles. Unfortunately you're not in this camp. As expected, a single profile for a given camera is tough to please everyone.

Based on our studies, the demand for colorimetric profiles is vanishingly small, compared to pleasing. But the DNG Profile Editor does give users the ability to create colorimetric ones should they so desire.
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01af
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2008, 09:37:24 AM »
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... we have received a lot of positive feedback from existing Sony users about the new Adobe Standard beta 1 profiles. Unfortunately you're not in this camp.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220314\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Oh dear. I already was suspecting I'm in the minority's camp in this regard. I've been told that Americans prefer their whites more yellowish and their reds more saturated than Europeans or Asians. Don't know if that's true---but it seems we're seeing the result of this in the Adobe Standard profiles (I am in Europe). Maybe you should consider offering several sets of Standard profiles customized to the different colour receptions that are prevalent in the various regions of the world.


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But the DNG Profile Editor does give users the ability to create colorimetric ones should they so desire.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220314\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Alright ... so I guess I have to resort to ACR 4.4 profiles, or make my own.

-- Olaf
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madmanchan
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2008, 10:37:47 AM »
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To be honest, it is very unlikely at this point that we will be releasing different sets of profiles. Our aim with this recent color project was to have a multi-step approach. The new AS profiles are optimized for the common case (similar to how in-camera defaults are biased towards pleasing rather than colorimetric, e.g., Canon's "Faithful" and "Neutral" Picture Styles aren't the defaults ... this is by design). If you fall into the minority case, that's fine ... that's why we built the DNG Profile Editor.
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Henry Goh
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« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2008, 11:04:15 AM »
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Hi Eric,

Perhaps I've not read all the details that I should but I'm confused.  I have from previous re-iterations used Fors' script to obtain presets for ACR.  Now with this new ability provided, I can also create a profile for every shoot since I always shoot a Color checker?  Then do I apply the preset that I already have for a particular camera and also apply the profile I just made?  How should I be doing this?

Thanks for any help.

Henry
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Sunesha
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« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2008, 01:27:40 PM »
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Shall note that I use Nikon Cameras. The Adobe Standard profile to my eyes was a much more pleasing result. The "vintage" ACR look on the reds and greens I didnīt like much. I feel I like red more red and the ACR profile for nikon was notch to much towards yellow red/orange. But the standard profile nailed the reds to my liking.

I made colormetric examples in controlled lighting. But I dont like colormetric and correct colors.

Thou the other profiles followed with Nikons was a bit to extreme. I like standard is kinda mix off old ACR look and the more vivid ones. But not to extreme.

In most cases colors are a completely subjective matter to me. Correct colors is more when do my rare product shoots.

The Standard Profile is great starting point for me. I often tweak colors how I remember them not how they look. Standard is closer how I remember them.

What is great, is that brownish and redish tones pop better with standard profile. Which is my favorite colors in photography.
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Daniel Sunebring, Malmoe, Sweden
Homepage: Sunesha.se
Non-native english speaker and dyslexian, so excuse my mistake in grammar and spelling."
madmanchan
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« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2008, 04:22:26 PM »
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Now with this new ability provided, I can also create a profile for every shoot since I always shoot a Color checker?

Yes, if you happen to have a ColorChecker shot for a particular shoot, then yes you can create a color profile with the DNG Profile Editor that is optimized for that shoot. The 24-patch CC is pretty good at building a profile despite its relatively few number of patches.

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Then do I apply the preset that I already have for a particular camera and also apply the profile I just made?  How should I be doing this?

Once you export the profile from the DNG Profile Editor (the default export location is the correct location that it'll be picked up by Camera Raw / Lightroom), then relaunch CR / LR. That new profile will now be available in the Profile popup menu, and you can batch-apply it to all your images in the relevant shoot.

Does that make sense?
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Sunesha
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« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2008, 04:37:05 PM »
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I found that Adobe put this great FAQ:
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/DNG_Profiles_FAQ

It answered my questions. There is also tutorial for IR calibration. Must try that out myself.

Cheers,
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Daniel Sunebring, Malmoe, Sweden
Homepage: Sunesha.se
Non-native english speaker and dyslexian, so excuse my mistake in grammar and spelling."
Henry Goh
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« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2008, 05:45:31 PM »
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Yes, if you happen to have a ColorChecker shot for a particular shoot, then yes you can create a color profile with the DNG Profile Editor that is optimized for that shoot. The 24-patch CC is pretty good at building a profile despite its relatively few number of patches.
Once you export the profile from the DNG Profile Editor (the default export location is the correct location that it'll be picked up by Camera Raw / Lightroom), then relaunch CR / LR. That new profile will now be available in the Profile popup menu, and you can batch-apply it to all your images in the relevant shoot.

Does that make sense?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220434\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes!  Thank you.  Also read the FAQ and now have a better idea.
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