Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1] 2 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Still and Video convergence  (Read 21007 times)
soboyle
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 269


WWW
« on: August 27, 2008, 10:42:42 AM »
ReplyReply

There is a lot of talk about convergence of still and video camera technologies, and now there is the inclusion of video in Nikons new D90 camera body.
So what is the big deal about this convergence, what am I missing?
It will be handy to have a built in video camera occasionally, one less thing to carry on vacation and family outings, but I'm no more likely to spend time as a fine art photographer taking videos than I was in the past. Are there new video markets opening up that I haven't heard about? Is it just the convenience?
Logged

glennchan
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10


« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2008, 12:17:02 PM »
ReplyReply

For journalism, it would be possible for a cameraperson to shoot video.  And then for print publications, stills can be pulled from that video stream.  The Red One digital cinema camera is getting close to that goal.  Certainly stills from a video stream are good enough for web/online publications.

As far as still cameras go, I don't know.  You could record video and then you don't have to worry about capturing something at the right, exact moment.  With a high speed camera you wouldn't have to do a lot of trial and error to get the right timing (e.g. shooting a bullet through an apple).

You could also do motion blur effects if you could shoot video... or remove all the people in the scene by doing a really long timelapse.

2- It's probably just the convenience of having two devices in one for consumer use.  Many people's cell phones have still and video camera functions.
Logged
MarkL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 329


« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2008, 01:20:17 PM »
ReplyReply

Fine art, landscape etc. are probably the last places where this will raise it's head if it ever does. For sports, photo journalism etc. with fast moving subjects/situations it will be useful.

Right now a huge amount of people are still stitching together frames from their dslrs to get sufficient resolution at a reasonable price so I think digital has a very long way to go  in still photography yet.
Logged
Pete Ferling
Guest
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2008, 04:13:43 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
There is a lot of talk about convergence of still and video camera technologies, and now there is the inclusion of video in Nikons new D90 camera body.
So what is the big deal about this convergence, what am I missing?
It will be handy to have a built in video camera occasionally, one less thing to carry on vacation and family outings, but I'm no more likely to spend time as a fine art photographer taking videos than I was in the past. Are there new video markets opening up that I haven't heard about? Is it just the convenience?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217575\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Folks whom shoot stock will now be able to collect revenue streams from stock clips.

Not having to tote a video camera and support.

Even in landscape or fine art, a few minutes of that spectacular scene would look great on my HD set to share, or to sell.  Turn a dial, push a button.  You got it.

I doubt it would replace my video shoots with an XH-G1, but I'd know I would use it if the opportunity arrised at a photoshoot, and it was handy.  Even for note taking, or documentation, or getting a rare candid interview, etc.  

Finally, not everyone associates a pro level DSLR as a video cam.  Emagine the possibilities.  The subject is yaking away at liberty as your making adjustments, unawares that your rolling footage.  OK, not nice, but you get the point.
Logged
Pete Ferling
Guest
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2008, 04:19:25 PM »
ReplyReply

I should also add that capturing video is only half the issue.  Editing HD is whole nudder ball game.  Not for underpowered desktops and the faint of heart.  If you want to do it right, professionally, you could be looking at another $5K in software and hardware.

Michael mentioned an article that I believe will deal with that.  Even as a videographer I would be curious to see his take from a photographers perspective.
Logged
michael
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4729



« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2008, 05:35:40 PM »
ReplyReply

Agreed Pete. Editing is one of the biggest hurdles that newcomers have to handle.

Also, AVCHD, which almost all new consumer camcorders use, is a total horror in this regard. One of the dirty little secrets of present-day video. I'll have more on this next week.

Michael
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 05:45:38 PM by michael » Logged
T-1000
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 579


« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2008, 05:49:34 PM »
ReplyReply

IMO, this is NOT a video and still convergence.  

This is a DSLR that can shoot 12MP stills, and 720P video.  Which I LOVE.  I'm very excited, because I love video, and I'm sure from now on, many DSLRs from all companies will include some sort of video mode.  

But IMO, video and still convergence would be if a 12MP DSLR still camera can also shoot video that is recorded in it's full still resolution (12MP video resolution, like the RED).  Obviously, we're not going to see that so soon, and definitely not in a consumer DSLR.

Some day...
Logged
Tony Beach
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 452


WWW
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2008, 11:01:42 PM »
ReplyReply

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=29096021
Logged
michael
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4729



« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2008, 07:24:28 AM »
ReplyReply

With all due respect to Thom, shooting stills and video simultaneously is not what its about. It's being able to shoot stills and video with the same camera that appeals to newspapers that also have web sites.

In fact, many are now sending their reporters out with cameras like the Canon G9, that can shoot both stills and video simply and easily. The quality of both is good enough for both newspapers and the web.

But, when one can shoot 12MP raw stills and 12MP raw video, both with a hybrid DSLR video camera, the game will change. This will come within 12 months. It'll be a new ball game.

Michael
Logged
kaelaria
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2184



WWW
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2008, 07:58:14 AM »
ReplyReply

I can't count the number of video devices I have owned.  All but one were 'convergence' devices.  The only one I used with any regularity was my camcorder, and that was very infrequent at best.  

I think the biggest market for such devices are right now, kids.  I think the biggest advantage the D90 has is the lens selection and ISO performance.  I don't know any kids that will have a Nikon lens collection or tote it all around to take skateboarding vids.  

I think it's a neat idea that gives nice looking results - but I think it's a solution to a non-existant problem at the moment.
Logged

Chris Sanderson
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1830



« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2008, 10:39:27 AM »
ReplyReply

He has already been quoted, but I believe David Pogue, amongst others, got it right today.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 10:39:55 AM by Chrissand » Logged

Christopher Sanderson
The Luminous-Landscape
lovell
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 131


WWW
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2008, 04:57:43 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote
He has already been quoted, but I believe David Pogue, amongst others, got it right today.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217845\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Sure, David Pogue got it right for Uncle Joe, Aunt Betty and other snappers that care little about making a wonderful photograph.

Michael is right on in this issue.  Video capabilities on a DSLR is a gimmick, and maybe a "kewl" thing, but still a gimmick.  

I'd rather have a still camera optimized for stills, and a video camera optimized just for video.  The camera worflow, and the ways one composes is often very different between still and video.   In addition, the editing and mastering of video is a skill that takes monumental time, resources, and intelligence to master and do right.  This part of video is often minimized.

Heck, if they're going to add video to DSLR's, why stop there?  Why not add an MP3 player too?  Games would be kind of neat too...perhaps GPS to help you drive to the photo shoot, tape recorder too...did someone mention cell phone capabilities, anyone?!?
Logged

After composition, everything else is secondary--Alfred Steiglitz, NYC, 1927.

I'm not afraid of death.  I just don't want to be there when it happens--Woody Allen, Annie Hall, '70s
The View
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 917


« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2008, 07:16:40 PM »
ReplyReply

Interesting would be a system of camera body, lenses, and different backs for different tasks like normal light, low light, video.

What's most difficult would be the lens. A professional video lens doesn't just have an autofocus. It's judged not only by its image quality, but also on how you can control focusing and zooming (when you follow a moving subject, for example, and have to constantly reframe).
« Last Edit: August 28, 2008, 07:20:53 PM by The View » Logged

Deserts, Cities, Woods, Faces - View of the World.
AndyF2
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 89


« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2008, 08:08:50 PM »
ReplyReply

This seems like two photographic tools in one body, which is perhaps not a convergence.  But looking at the other end of the image creative process where the work is shown, there is also a new display medium that needs something to show.

We used to have movies on screen or TV, and printed still images framed on the wall.  Two separate things.  Now, we have framed flat panels.  A bit small, but getting larger, thinner, and colour gamut will come last.  They're nice for desktop slideshows.  Once they're up to 11x17 and about the thickness of frames, you have a display that becomes suitable for showcasing collections of still images, and time series images (trying to avoid "movies" or "video clips").  

There will unfortunately be cute sunrise sequences and infinite loop waterfalls, but this also allows higher end work, anywhere from a minute to an hour long.  Either for the attractiveness of images being shown, or exploring an idea.  Owners of the display frames may choose to have the entire work run through, but they'll also be able halt it any of the image points.  Because those points are attractive, or the series explored an idea and that's an image worth thinking about further, or to them the key image.

To support that type of composition, and especially a frozen moment in the series, all frames would need to be as good as a single DSLR image.  So now with one camera, one can work in both still and time series styles of work.  It seems to be a convergence of tools, but the type of work is not converging, it's supporting a new kind of image composition.  

Andy
Logged
NikosR
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 622


WWW
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2008, 12:08:47 AM »
ReplyReply

This http://nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Produc.../25446/D90.html (click on the D-movie demo button) looks quite impressive for a 'composition' produced solely with a still camera and home software. I'm sure it took lots of effort.

I'm sure this clip alone will sell the camera, regardless of the fact that most people who will get it will never be able to produce something like it.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 12:11:49 AM by NikosR » Logged

Nikos
Mike W
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 217


« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2008, 07:58:29 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
But, when one can shoot 12MP raw stills and 12MP raw video, both with a hybrid DSLR video camera, the game will change. This will come within 12 months. It'll be a new ball game.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=217781\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Is that statement based on fact or speculation, Michael?
If its the first, what can you tell us?

Me, I'm all for hybrids. I'm a minimalist when it comes to gear and I allready know Final Cut pro.
I just hope these hybrids will support decent stereo sound. As long as the D90 (and others?) only record mono their video capabilities are gimmicks at worst or severely crippled tools at best.

Besides, how long can you record video on the D90? Does anyone know? Nikon doesn't speak of it.
Logged
NikosR
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 622


WWW
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2008, 08:10:57 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Is that statement based on fact or speculation, Michael?
If its the first, what can you tell us?


Besides, how long can you record video on the D90? Does anyone know? Nikon doesn't speak of it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218069\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In 720p HD 24fps, multiple 5min clips until your card fills up. In lower resolutions clip limit goes up to 20min.

Pls. don't ask me why the 5min limit because there are long discussion going on about this. Reason given by Nikon seems to be EU import duty issues regarding videocams. Other reasons speculated are filesize limitations and sensor heat issues.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 08:17:04 AM by NikosR » Logged

Nikos
michael
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4729



« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2008, 08:19:43 AM »
ReplyReply

Don't judge a person's eventually ability to run in the Olympics by their first steps as a toddler.

Also, remember Moore's Law.

Michael
Logged
Mike W
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 217


« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2008, 10:05:30 AM »
ReplyReply

Very true, and this is "still" a still-camera. One can hardly call this a hybrid video/still camera.

And 5 minutes isn't all to bad. I'm guessing one can film for eg. ten minutes, but the camera breaks it into two connecting clips?

regards,

Mike
Logged
NikosR
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 622


WWW
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2008, 11:52:27 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Very true, and this is "still" a still-camera. One can hardly call this a hybrid video/still camera.

And 5 minutes isn't all to bad. I'm guessing one can film for eg. ten minutes, but the camera breaks it into two connecting clips?

regards,

Mike
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218095\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No. Max continous shoot is 5min but reportedly you can resume shooting for another 5mins after a second or so. So, if you want to record, for example, a continous unedited speech by a politician you are out of luck.

Of course I see no reason why you would want to do that   If all political speeches where dictated by law to be recorded only using the D90 all of us would be better off... Seriously, this is limiting but not to the extend people would think. It depends on the application.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 11:55:30 AM by NikosR » Logged

Nikos
Pages: [1] 2 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad