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Author Topic: tethered shooting 1dsmkIII  (Read 14244 times)
James R Russell
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2008, 11:31:04 AM »
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Baby steps...

http://prodig.org/2008/08/30/lightroom-tether-plugin/

Requires 10.5 and this one is mostly Nikon-only.

How many years after the introduction of the 1ds1, and we're still trying to simply tether a camera for a real-world job? Canon should be ashamed. Obviously a camera geared toward sports and weddings.
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Tethering and the Canons is really kind of strange.   Obviously they know that we tether and the issues we had with the 1ds2 with that small 4 pin firewire connector because the connection on the 1ds3 usb is very robust.

Then again,  tethering with the Canons is not that great of a system.

Mostly the naming.  I don't really understand that when you tether and name the files within the computer why those names are not transfered to the cf card images.

If this would happen it would make the system 95% better, not perfect, but better because then the small jpegs could be used for viewing and approval and the raws would match the same naming.

No matter how much most of us want just one camera system that will cover all the territory it doesn't seem to exist.

Personally I like working with the 1ds3.  It's simple, the iso is good, the viewfinder is almost spectacular and the files are much better than the 2, but when it comes to tethering and working a file deep it just isn't the same as working with a medium format back.

Then again for 1/2 to 1/5 of the price of medium format it's stil one hell of a camera.

What I would really love to see is whatever DPP reads in a Canon file, LR, RD, C1 would read the same thing.  The Canon files really shine in DPP, but the software is just too PCish and bogs down to some extent and compared to LightRoom, the functionality is almost 5 years in the past.

JR
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 11:43:52 AM by James R Russell » Logged

Snook
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2008, 12:19:27 PM »
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Tethering and the Canons is really kind of strange.   Obviously they know that we tether and the issues we had with the 1ds2 with that small 4 pin firewire connector because the connection on the 1ds3 usb is very robust.

Then again,  tethering with the Canons is not that great of a system.

Mostly the naming.  I don't really understand that when you tether and name the files within the computer why those names are not transfered to the cf card images.

If this would happen it would make the system 95% better, not perfect, but better because then the small jpegs could be used for viewing and approval and the raws would match the same naming.

No matter how much most of us want just one camera system that will cover all the territory it doesn't seem to exist.

Personally I like working with the 1ds3.  It's simple, the iso is good, the viewfinder is almost spectacular and the files are much better than the 2, but when it comes to tethering and working a file deep it just isn't the same as working with a medium format back.

Then again for 1/2 to 1/5 of the price of medium format it's stil one hell of a camera.

What I would really love to see is whatever DPP reads in a Canon file, LR, RD, C1 would read the same thing.  The Canon files really shine in DPP, but the software is just too PCish and bogs down to some extent and compared to LightRoom, the functionality is almost 5 years in the past.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218712\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


James are you wanting to rename the files then have them upped back to the CF card again?
Sorry but that does not make much sense at all?
Sounds like your going backwards.
I have heard you and mainly you complaining about the naming system...
Don't you have assistants or technical assistants rename your images for you?
Also Not to be wise but we sure have got spoiled with the digital world and now expect and want everything automatic..
I am sure you remember the Film days and Polaroids... seems like a million years ago but was not.
I was shooting film up until 3 years ago a long side digital.
I think the problem is pushy clients that want everything yesterday..
I get it all the time.
They seem to have forgotten that they normally had to wait a couple of days for film much less get the retouched image ready for public display.
I think the more "we" jump to please the client, the more they will tell us how high to jump!
I find a lot of posts sounding like people whining all the time...
I hope this does not come off snobbish, just a point..
Snook
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James R Russell
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« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2008, 01:46:17 PM »
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James are you wanting to rename the files then have them upped back to the CF card again?
Sorry but that does not make much sense at all?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218719\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



If you want to have quick previews with the eos utility you must only send small jpegs to the computer, the raws are written to a cf card.

This works and works quite well, except if you name the jpegs in the eos utility, (for example) snook_wears_red_dress_001   the corresponding raw image will be c20004.cr2.

In other words the jpegs in the computer won't match the raw images in naming.

If you send both the raws and the jpeg to the computer you can name them snook_wears_red_dress_001 and the raw and the jpeg will have the same name.  The only issue with this is after the first 5 images the system slows way down.

Why is this important.   For one you have everything coming into the system with the correct name and it's easy to find or search and there is no need to rename the raws at a later date (which is just one more step).

Why are the jpegs important?  Because even if you want to do some batch corrections for web galleries and contact sheets, it's very fast to put the jpegs into a program like lightroom and reprocess them.  Much faster than waiting for hundreds or thousands of previews to build from the raws.

If the naming was the same on the card (raw) and in the computer (jpeg) that is just one less step for anything to go wrong on a busy day.

Do I have people?  yes . . . but once again, if it's correct going into the system it stays correct and is one less thing to worry about.

JR
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« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2008, 02:07:06 PM »
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If you want to have quick previews with the eos utility you must only send small jpegs to the computer, the raws are written to a cf card.

This works and works quite well, except if you name the jpegs in the eos utility, (for example) snook_wears_red_dress_001   the corresponding raw image will be c20004.cr2.

In other words the jpegs in the computer won't match the raw images in naming.

If you send both the raws and the jpeg to the computer you can name them snook_wears_red_dress_001 and the raw and the jpeg will have the same name.  The only issue with this is after the first 5 images the system slows way down.

Why is this important.   For one you have everything coming into the system with the correct name and it's easy to find or search and there is no need to rename the raws at a later date (which is just one more step).

Why are the jpegs important?  Because even if you want to do some batch corrections for web galleries and contact sheets, it's very fast to put the jpegs into a program like lightroom and reprocess them.  Much faster than waiting for hundreds or thousands of previews to build from the raws.

If the naming was the same on the card (raw) and in the computer (jpeg) that is just one less step for anything to go wrong on a busy day.

Do I have people?  yes . . . but once again, if it's correct going into the system it stays correct and is one less thing to worry about.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218738\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


i understand that you want to work with jpegs....for speed at shooting and for simple post (contacts,...) ...i just wouldn't rename anything at that point....as long as your files have unique numbers (which they should) you won't have any problems with separated jpegs and raws and once you are done with the project (or once you get rid of the jpegs and work on the raws) just rename them.....

i also always shoot to cards (even when i shoot tethered) that way i have the entire shoot with me in a little case at the end of the day....cards are cheap and computers get stolen, lost, break,.....but if i rename files on import (on tether) the files on the cards have different names again.....

i have pretty much given up on renaming files....i have them in folders anyway and nothing really floats....the only real solution to the naming issue would be in camera...at the time of shooting.....i believe i was able to do that on my leaf back...wirelessly via the pda.....just name the shoot and all files came out with the name and numbers....
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Snook
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« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2008, 03:10:16 PM »
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i understand that you want to work with jpegs....for speed at shooting and for simple post (contacts,...) ...i just wouldn't rename anything at that point....as long as your files have unique numbers (which they should) you won't have any problems with separated jpegs and raws and once you are done with the project (or once you get rid of the jpegs and work on the raws) just rename them.....

i also always shoot to cards (even when i shoot tethered) that way i have the entire shoot with me in a little case at the end of the day....cards are cheap and computers get stolen, lost, break,.....but if i rename files on import (on tether) the files on the cards have different names again.....

i have pretty much given up on renaming files....i have them in folders anyway and nothing really floats....the only real solution to the naming issue would be in camera...at the time of shooting.....i believe i was able to do that on my leaf back...wirelessly via the pda.....just name the shoot and all files came out with the name and numbers....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218743\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree with Paul here
if you loading in by a CF card then the RAws will have a number and that can be the file number you need to have it attached or matching with your renamed jpegs??
Or no?
If you have to down load the CF card somewhere just make sure you or your assistants note what folder goes with your re-named Jpegs?
I really do not see why that is difficult?
I actually do not like to rename anything until a later date or a copied version of the original file. I am just anal about that..
Maybe I am missing something?
Snook
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Kumar
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2008, 06:01:56 PM »
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On the Windows side at least, there is this wonderful free utility by Jim Willsher called Bulk Rename Utility http://www.bulkrenameutility.co.uk/ . It will rename any number of files instantly. It shows up as a Context Menu item in Windows. Perhaps PhotoMechanic and other programs do this as well? BRU unfortunately will be supported only until the end of 2008...

Cheers,
Kumar
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tho_mas
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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2008, 06:23:17 PM »
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Maybe kind of stupid question...
But why edit/change the file name?
You can save the file name but edit the title in the IPTC data.
Goes in batch mode with tools like this:
http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/
http://www.amarra.de/exif_uk.htm
http://www.exifer.friedemann.info/ (Windows only)

Every image software can read the IPTC tags. Even the explorer/finder.
Capture One has an IPTC editor, too.
And if you sort by columns...
[attachment=8175:attachment]
... you always have both at the same time: file name and IPTC-"title"
« Last Edit: September 01, 2008, 06:24:35 PM by tho_mas » Logged
paul_jones
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2008, 06:26:27 PM »
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I agree with Paul here
if you loading in by a CF card then the RAws will have a number and that can be the file number you need to have it attached or matching with your renamed jpegs??
Or no?
If you have to down load the CF card somewhere just make sure you or your assistants note what folder goes with your re-named Jpegs?
I really do not see why that is difficult?
I actually do not like to rename anything until a later date or a copied version of the original file. I am just anal about that..
Maybe I am missing something?
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218751\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the only way to see the shots quickly is by sending small jpegs, and if you want to choose shots on the fly- the names wont match. i find on a busy high volume shoot, there really isnt enough time to download the cf card as things are getting shot. so no way of choosing the shots, with a correct name.
im sure james is in that boat.
maybe by dedicating a second workstation, with another operator, but that is ridiculous expense for a work around on of a mickey mouse system.
ive been forced to use the canon software all year, and i still cant get my head around it. and i dont know an assistant i (in new zealand) that can work it seemlessly, or even like the software.

my workflow has been on a fast shoot (i dont do this if im shooting a slow shoot)
- shoot raw to CF card- send jpeg small to the computer running crap canon software.
- download raw off cards into C1 3.9 when there is a break- ie lunch, or model changes
but i cant choose the shots easily from the canon software, as i cant match the names with raws. especially when i use my std naming convention that i use with C1. all the selecting tends to be done in C1, but working like this isnt that good. i just havnt figured out a better way.


paul
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BJNY
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« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2008, 06:38:31 PM »
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Has anyone tried Bibble software for tethering?

http://bibblelabs.com/products/bibble/specs.html
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Guillermo
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« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2008, 09:04:12 PM »
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Has anyone tried Bibble software for tethering?

http://bibblelabs.com/products/bibble/specs.html
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218781\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

i tried it for 20 minutes. it tethered easy, but the transfers are still slow (due to raw and usb/ osx).
could be a good option, but i dont to learn another piece of software!

paul
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James R Russell
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« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2008, 11:45:08 PM »
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there really isnt enough time to download the cf card as things are getting shot. so no way of choosing the shots, with a correct name.
im sure james is in that boat.
maybe by dedicating a second workstation, with another operator, but that is ridiculous expense for a work around on of a mickey mouse system
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218780\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


My reason for pre naming is simple.  I learned a long time ago with digital that the more organized and cleaner you are up front the less work you do in the back end.

For a lot of projects, especially designer or retail fashion it must be named according to product, i.e. blu_blous_low_cut_sleevless_001.

And even for a ad session with multiple set ups its easier to find images if the folders and names have some form of reference.  jackie_chan_mountian_001, jackie_chan_motorcycle_001, etc. etc.

It just makes processing, sorting, editing etc. that much eaiser.

Now if time doesn't permit to name as I go, we set up folders on the desktop and shoot to those specific folders that are named accordingly.  No such thing as folder1, folder2, but names like the above and then I put the raws and jpegs in photomechanic and rename them together.

Then I process out the jpegs again for slight corrections in lightroom.

Those go in the web galleries.

So starting with a logical or client requested naming convention is a must.

Having less steps saves a lot of time on the backend, but the backend is where all my focus is now when it comes to time saving workflow.

In fact that is so important to me, I'll put up with the buffer time and slow write time just to get it into the system correctly.  Even with the times I have to tell the talen to wait, hair/makeup/styling goes in and does there thing and the wait is around the same as changing a roll of film.

As far as using the eos utlity and dpp, I don't find them difficult to work or learn, just kind of all over the place, having to go from windows for some settings to preferences for others.

Once you get use to it, it kind of runs it'self, though slowly.  I've used it on the last 4 projects and nobody has complained, though there is some wait time for previews to load.




JR
« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 12:05:18 AM by James R Russell » Logged

Henry Goh
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« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2008, 12:09:31 AM »
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Of course there is a way to name a series of captures with "blue_blouse_one_sleeve_torn_off-001" and then midway, change the name to "red_cardigan_without_lining-001" and so on and continue shooting.  You don't even need to shoot JPEG because the software extracts small Jpegs from the RAW captures to send to the screen quickly.
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« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2008, 12:21:18 AM »
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I cant recommend enough using Windows for tethering the mark3. It blows away every photographer I tech for when they first see it and are accustomed to running it through OSX. Once you remap the apple Key to control so that the keyboard works properly :-)
My setup tends to be MBP2.5 with either a dual drive FW800 enclosure or a esata card and a dual 3.5 esata enclosure. 1 drive is NTFS formatted and the other HFS+. Captures are sent directly to the NTFS drive and then manually backed up to the HFS+ drive after each shot setup. I use Macdrive to do the talking between the drives.  

Works great.
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« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2008, 01:33:56 PM »
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i checked out bibble and thank god it was just as slow.....the last thing i need is one more conversion software (even if i only use it to shoot tethered)....

the renaming thing is not really a problem for me and is something everybody has to figure out for themselves....what works for me might drive someone else nuts...

i still wish it could be done in camera so the files are named as they are shot....i completely agree with james that i also try to not save it all for post....it is so easy to just let everything go and fix it later....not a smart way of working imo...we could not really do it with film and we really should not do it with digital.....it's just plain lazy and takes up so much more time afterwards......but i guess everybody has their workflow.....again: leaf could do it years ago (naming the files in camera) with all the other magic going on, you'd think it was possible....maybe next year.....

the obvious bottleneck is mac usb.....i guess canon had to make a decision to either piss off pc users with firewire or mac users with usb.....a camera shooting 25mb files at 3/sec should really have fw800 anyway.....

everytime i find a reason to install windows i just can't get myself to do it and deal with it....i guess i would rather get one of those sony UX or oqo things.....and treat it like a epson/gigavu device...use it for shooting only......actually looked into the UX...solidstate drive are fast but too small.....

i guess it comes down to how one shoots....and the canon isn't really that much slower then a film based MF system.....so like james said...time for stylist/makeup/hair to jump in......

now if the camera just wasn't so damn fast and fun to shoot fast......
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James R Russell
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« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2008, 01:04:58 PM »
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I cant recommend enough using Windows for tethering the mark3. It blows away every photographer I tech for when they first see it and are accustomed to running it through OSX. Once you remap the apple Key to control so that the keyboard works properly :-)
My setup tends to be MBP2.5 with either a dual drive FW800 enclosure or a esata card and a dual 3.5 esata enclosure. 1 drive is NTFS formatted and the other HFS+. Captures are sent directly to the NTFS drive and then manually backed up to the HFS+ drive after each shot setup. I use Macdrive to do the talking between the drives. 

Works great.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=218825\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Your right.  Works more than great.   Just hooking the 1ds3 to a small Dell Laptop and eos utlitlity doubled the buffer, cut the wait time down to 1/3 and the previews are at least twice as fast, maybe more.

I just ordered a PC laptop which I think with 4 gigs of ram, a 17" screen and two 320 gig hard drives came to $2,700.

JR
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Snook
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« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2008, 02:56:19 PM »
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Your right.  Works more than great.   Just hooking the 1ds3 to a small Dell Laptop and eos utlitlity doubled the buffer, cut the wait time down to 1/3 and the previews are at least twice as fast, maybe more.

I just ordered a PC laptop which I think with 4 gigs of ram, a 17" screen and two 320 gig hard drives came to $2,700.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219223\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Does running Windows in Boot camp help? Or not even worth it?
I do not even have a 1DsMIII but was thinking about getting one for back up and when it is needed to replace my 1DsMII...
I am a Mac guy from day one but always thought about shooting tethered to one of those tiny lap tops Pc makes... They are really cheap...
Thanks for the Information...
Will you have to switch from computer to computer if you change cameras when shooting...
In other words are you getting the Pc just for the Canon and when you need it?
Thanks again
Snook
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Imaginara
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« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2008, 03:13:14 PM »
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well. sounding like an advertisement now but if you are going to tether a Canon on the PC, check out DSLR Remote. It was the best $99 ive ever spent. Sure EOS Utility is free but it crashes fairly easilly and does not reconnect at all which is a real pain when you are shooting continously and all of a sudden have to stop, restart eos utility, reconnect, etc etc. DSLR Remote does that much better and ive only managed to crash it once with a 450D

Since i do own a license to Capture One im eagerly awaiting to see how well Pro 4 will work with tethered but in the meantime i use this little software to do the capture to my laptop.

(http://www.breezesys.com/ if you want to check it out)
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« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2008, 03:15:08 PM »
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Your right.  Works more than great.   Just hooking the 1ds3 to a small Dell Laptop and eos utlitlity doubled the buffer, cut the wait time down to 1/3 and the previews are at least twice as fast, maybe more.

I just ordered a PC laptop which I think with 4 gigs of ram, a 17" screen and two 320 gig hard drives came to $2,700.

JR
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


i have tried to go that route once before...got one of those little sony UX things...5inch screen and such...ended up returning it....the processor was too slow, the HD too small and too slow....(i am sure your dell rig does not have these problems)....... and the biggest problem was the files were on there after the shoot was done....i could not really make any adjustments (that would have been carried over with the files) so the whole thing just did not work for me....i was running C1 on it.....

james....how do you work the dell into your workflow? do you have LR on it, write the adjustments to .xmp and then import the files (with the .xmp) into your mac for post and final storage? i could see having a mac running windows and just using it for tethered shooting and connecting it to the workstation via FW targetdisk mode (and using it just as a HD at that point...)...actually the [a href=\"http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/Modbook]modbook[/url] would be perfect for that!....i guess you'd still have the library/settings issues....either way not what i would consider a smooth workflow......

i am really hesitant to install windows along with mac osX just to shoot tethered and am just not convinced that the "2 systems at once" workflow won't make up the difference (or the most part of it) in speed....
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« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2008, 03:20:08 PM »
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well. sounding like an advertisement now but if you are going to tether a Canon on the PC, check out DSLR Remote. It was the best $99 ive ever spent. Sure EOS Utility is free but it crashes fairly easilly and does not reconnect at all which is a real pain when you are shooting continously and all of a sudden have to stop, restart eos utility, reconnect, etc etc. DSLR Remote does that much better and ive only managed to crash it once with a 450D

Since i do own a license to Capture One im eagerly awaiting to see how well Pro 4 will work with tethered but in the meantime i use this little software to do the capture to my laptop.

(http://www.breezesys.com/ if you want to check it out)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219256\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


so the eos utility crashes on PC? great.....anyone else with an experience like that.....at least it seems really stable on the mac....sloooooow but solid....still weird with all the strange windos and such but at least it works.....

i really wish apple would just spend 5min NOT on the next ipod and iphone and just fix this issue....
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James R Russell
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« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2008, 03:57:35 PM »
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james....how do you work the dell into your workflow? do you have LR on it, write the adjustments to .xmp and then import the files (with the .xmp) into your mac for post and final storage? i could see having a mac running windows and just using it for tethered shooting and connecting it to the workstation via FW targetdisk mode (and using it just as a HD at that point...)...actually the modbook would be perfect for that!....i guess you'd still have the library/settings issues....either way not what i would consider a smooth workflow......

i am really hesitant to install windows along with mac osX just to shoot tethered and am just not convinced that the "2 systems at once" workflow won't make up the difference (or the most part of it) in speed....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=219257\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't know how it will fit into workflow, probably only as a capture/viewing machine.  The only software I plan to run on it is the canon software and some time of monitor calibration and I bought CS3 just to process a few files to make sure everything works.

It shouldn't be that much different a workflow than I have now, as we never keep images store on a capture computer anyway, we just duplicate them to multiple drives.

I really didn't want to do the parallels thing where I partioned a drive on the mac etc. etc.  Probably works ok, but just didn't see the point.

If the new laptop runs as fast as our older Dell then it will be way faster than the way it worked on a mac so all is good . . . so far.

I will know in a few days when it comes in.


JR
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