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Author Topic: More exciting Leaf news  (Read 17052 times)
Fritzer
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« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2008, 03:48:57 PM »
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I apologize for the tone, it was hardly constructive. I appreaciate your reply.
I am disappointed, though.

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We've had rotating sensors in thousands of Leaf Volare/ Cantare backs since 1998 working mostly on LF cameras and none had sharpness or reliability issues related to the mechanism.
This feature along with the tilting screen were definitely designed with LF use in mind. You may change your opinion after seeing it in real.

My bad, i wasn't aware of that. Sounded like an all-new feature to me.


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Depends on what you consider as "real life resolution"...for example a 8X11 crop (done on the fly) will give you approx. 48MP, this is 15MP more compared to what you can get from the 33MP backs.

It is still a format I can not use for my work, hence there is a lot of space wasted.
I know other photographers have other needs, and there is already a thread on diffrent crops.

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The AFi, AFi-II and Aptus-II do not require a dongle. The dongle for the current models can be had for 500 EUR, which is not an unreasonable price IMO.

It's good to hear the new Aptus II back has the feature enabled without having to pay for it.
Which makes it even more questionable that it wasn't included in the first place.
I tried it, my dealer gave me a dongle to try, and I don't think it is worth any extra money.
Given all the additional stuff that can come with a DB purchase, free MBP and whatnot, it just seems bizzare to charge for it.

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I would hold judgement until seeing this solution in action, I think you will be surprised...Also the iPhone is now being heavily marketed for professional corporate use, all handled by Apple's systems.

I know I'm expecting too much, as it sems, but an iPhone or iPod doesn't have the screen size for remote viewing, simple as that.
You can't satisfy a client by handing him an iPhone to watch images, they will still hang around at your workstation.
Neither can a photographer judge an image on such a thing.
It just appears that , even though the technology is available, wireless shooting to/viewing on a device with a decent, small (8-10") monitor is not doable. Much less providing one.

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That's odd, 90 percent of our customers and almost 100 percent of our dealers and employees (myself included) use Macs and Safari and we do not get many complaints about the website's compatibility.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220457\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It has been an issue for a while; Safari will not allow to whatch the entire page/ scrolling down to view all the content.
That's on three different Macs, OS 10.4.9/10/11 .
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Esben
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« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2008, 03:58:22 PM »
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Hi Yair
How are you?
I have two quick questions.

-In regard to the Aptus II 10 mounted onto a Hasselblad H2. Would it be possible to shoot with the sensor adjusted to vertical mode and use the mentioned SensorFlex set to 36X46?
-Would the recycle time be reduced when using SensorFlex?

Many thanks,
Esben
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 04:09:13 PM by Esben » Logged

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yaya
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« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2008, 04:10:04 PM »
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Hi Yair
How are you?
I have two quick questions.

-In regard to the Aptus II 10 with an Hasselblad H mount. Would it be possible to shoot with the sensor adjusted to vertical mode and use the mentioned SensorFlex set to 36X46?
-Would the recycle time be reduced when using SensorFlex?

Many thanks,
Esben
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220672\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm good thanks, lots to do with little time left until Photokina:-)

The Aptus II doesn't have a rotating sensor so that answers your first question.

For the second question, Yes, cropping means smaller files and less data to crunch.

Hope this helps

Yair
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woof75
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« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2008, 04:52:35 PM »
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re iPhone:

The new iPhone software works only when the Leaf back (Valeo, Aptus, Aptus S, Aptus-II, AFi and AFi-II) is tethered to a Mac.

The iPhone/ iPod Touch connects to the Mac via WiFi - internet, meaning the iPhone doesn't have to be physically near the Mac...

Possible applications:

1. You are shooting in a studio in Paris while your client is in a meeting in NY, where they can watch the images as you shoot.

2. You are shooting a car's interior with your ALPA stuck inside in an awkward position. The client/ tech and the rest of the gang are all hanging around the 30" while you need to compose and focus on the instruments panel. Now the iPhone comes out, with Live View running on it, allowing you to frame and focus, in colour, on a 4" beautiful screen

There are more but you can get the drift.

To have Wi-Fi built in the digital back or as an accessory is a big and complicated project, as some of our fellow makers would tell you.

We do have Bluetooth that works with iPaq's however the iPhone's Bluetooth module at the moment is limited to headsets and handsfree devices and it cannot handle heavier use.

re preview quality on the back's LCD: I think the best advice would be to wait another 2 weeks, after which everyone will be able to see the improvement in their own eyes.

Yair

PS we will have an FAQ file available on our website shortly covering everything regarding the new products. I will post a link once it is up
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220666\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't like to be cynical, but, I'll believe that when I see it.
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paul_jones
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« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2008, 05:26:21 PM »
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re iPhone:

The new iPhone software works only when the Leaf back (Valeo, Aptus, Aptus S, Aptus-II, AFi and AFi-II) is tethered to a Mac.

The iPhone/ iPod Touch connects to the Mac via WiFi - internet, meaning the iPhone doesn't have to be physically near the Mac...

Possible applications:

1. You are shooting in a studio in Paris while your client is in a meeting in NY, where they can watch the images as you shoot.

2. You are shooting a car's interior with your ALPA stuck inside in an awkward position. The client/ tech and the rest of the gang are all hanging around the 30" while you need to compose and focus on the instruments panel. Now the iPhone comes out, with Live View running on it, allowing you to frame and focus, in colour, on a 4" beautiful screen

There are more but you can get the drift.

To have Wi-Fi built in the digital back or as an accessory is a big and complicated project, as some of our fellow makers would tell you.

We do have Bluetooth that works with iPaq's however the iPhone's Bluetooth module at the moment is limited to headsets and handsfree devices and it cannot handle heavier use.

re preview quality on the back's LCD: I think the best advice would be to wait another 2 weeks, after which everyone will be able to see the improvement in their own eyes.

Yair

PS we will have an FAQ file available on our website shortly covering everything regarding the new products. I will post a link once it is up
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220666\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

is it easy to set up?
getting the canon wifi to work is beyond me, i dont think we should have to be network experts to shoot photographs!


paul
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yaya
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« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2008, 06:08:42 PM »
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My guess is that it will be a dedicated Leaf version with this concept:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=27547
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220693\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Definitely, 100% not....
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yaya
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« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2008, 06:11:50 PM »
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is it easy to set up?
getting the canon wifi to work is beyond me, i dont think we should have to be network experts to shoot photographs!
paul
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220688\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As easy as setting your Laptop to run on your studio's Wi-Fi network or your Bluetooth in-car handsfree to recognise your mobile phone. You only set it up once.

Yair
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2008, 06:21:12 PM »
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1. You are shooting in a studio in Paris while your client is in a meeting in NY, where they can watch the images as you shoot.

You can already let anyone remotely view your full Mac/PC screen view regardless of the photo software you're running, which would be much more useful as the view is full size on another PC and no-one needs to have an iPhone. Sorry, I think the iPhone has a definite 'cool' factor but I still can't think of a practical use for it.
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yaya
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« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2008, 06:29:15 PM »
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Concept was the key word here. If Leaf's version requires a laptop (check), wifi from laptop (check), iPhone (check), viewing images on iPhone (check) then this at least shows how something will magically appear on the iPhone, but will be a dedicated Leaf app.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Understood but I think your analogy is a bit simplistic. VNC is a desktop sharing facility that shows on the iPhone whatever is shown on your Mac's screen. So a 2506 pixels preview gets squeezed onto a much smaller screen and in order to use the various app tool you have to zoom and pan quite a lot.

The Leaf software produces images that are specifically optimised for the spec of the iPhone's screen and the same goes for the controls on it - no zooming or panning required.

Hope this is clear

yair
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samuel_js
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« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2008, 07:08:43 PM »
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I think manufacturers should think with their heads instead of listening to what the diva photogs want for their setups.

Why would I give my clients an iPhone if I need to theter anyway? Their first reaction will be "nice little thing but I prefer the big screen, thanks".

The iPhone is cool (I have one) but just the idea of giving it to a client to see the images..... ridiculous.

Just think about how many times you have to clean off the fingerprints (iphones love fingerprints). And how many times people will drop it because there's not a single rubber part on it. It's only design... And of course, they'll always accidentally press the home button or touch the screen and go to the main menu or other places, and then the need to restart the software, connection, etc....

Anyway....
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 07:11:49 PM by samuel_js » Logged
yaya
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« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2008, 07:14:41 PM »
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I look forward to seeing it in action. Then people can figure out how best to implement it than bitching.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220714\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Exactly!
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H1/A75 Guy
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« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2008, 07:16:55 PM »
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Yaya,

I forget, does the A II 10 have micro-lenses? Also, what are the SensorFlex crops of the A II 10.

Snook,

The MAP price of the AFi II 10 maybe the same price as the AFi 10 (that never launched). Perhaps $39,995. With any luck, the MAP price of an AFi II 7 maybe $35,995. The same price as a AFi 7 now. But of course, these prices could be allot less.

David
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 09:21:56 PM by H1/A75 Guy » Logged
James R Russell
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« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2008, 11:18:53 PM »
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As easy as setting your Laptop to run on your studio's Wi-Fi network or your Bluetooth in-car handsfree to recognise your mobile phone. You only set it up once.

Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220697\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I think a lot of this sounds interesting but as everyone says it really doesn't matter until we see it during an actual production.

I can think of a few ways 3 or 4 ipod touches around a studio might be a good idea and not just for the wow factor.

Not every art director spends every second glued in front of the computer station, in fact few do.

Every AD, heck everyone multitasks now, whether they are taking phone calls, talking to the client, planning the next production so a device they can sit next to them and thumb though the images is a good idea.  Once again it depends on how easy it works and if it's just a flip through system like photos application or it takes a learning curve.

Now for location, if it didn't require a computer i can see a great deal of value in this.  A lot of the time I just want to be free from the computer and the tether.  No matter how mobile the computer is you do begin to feel tied down.

When I shoot untethered it's a drag to constantly download cards for people to see or have a few people huddled around the camera when we flip though images.

And then there are those gigs where nobody wants to see a huge image on the screen when you shoot.  Sometimes the AD doesn't want the interference, sometimes shooting a celeb or a sensitive subject with a 24" preivew can cause too much angst.

It's a shame that the ipod thing  has to go through the tethered computer to get it into the ipod, but ....maybe someday.

As far as sending images in real time to a remote location, I don't know about that.  I subscribed to a system for a year that let us do that very easily where you just shot and a hot folder that puts them on an html site and the client remotely got a constant refresh.

I paid for a year of service and we never really used it.  It worked, it's just nobody wanted it.  AD's don't want to work a job from afar and for the times that they want to send some images to their client's office, they first wanted to cull them down first.

Also when I would mention this system everyone said no, they don't want to try to art direct from 1,000 miles away or let anyone know that it's possible  and I agree for a lot of reasons.

For some retail gigs I can see it and of course everyone works differently.

The 2:3 proportion kind of threw me at first.  We all shoot a lot more horizontal than we used to, but I still shoot a lot of vertical and 2:3 just breaks my brains.  For the Canons I have those black masks installed and it works well, until I go horizontal and then I have to somewhat guess, which is easier than it seems given the lcd on the Canons is quite good.

In ways though maybe the 2:3 thing will make sense and work ok.  I still wonder if the proportion of the sensor is a technical decision or a contractural one with Dalsa.

The rotating sensor . . . yea ok, though it sure seems like a lot of engineering work to do that rather than just make a back that physicallly rotates, but as long as it's realiable it is a solution.

To me the best annoucement of the Leaf and the Sinar is that Rollei camera. From the brief moments I've held it I like it.  Theirry was kind enough to send me lens prices and they stopped me dead in my tracks as I assume they must make them out of gold, silver, or kryptonite.  Regardless at those prices they better come in either a red or blue box, though if the camera is a 10 year camera then the investment is not out of reach, just as long as you keep telling yourself . . . 10 years . . . 10 years . . . 10 years.

In black it sure looks a lot better than the H series blad.  

Now if they just put a Rollei sticker on the front.

What I am most interested in is higher iso, especially a real clean and detailed 800.  Some people want 50, which is fine cause they got that now but I only need 50 iso like once every 2 years but need 800 iso every 6 weeks, so I'd love to see a clean 800 minimum.

Also the real down to earth, working persons question is the software, the stability the ability to put the file into any processor.

Those are things you can only tell under heavy production and deadlines.

JR
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 11:23:33 PM by James R Russell » Logged

free1000
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« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2008, 01:22:58 AM »
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The 2:3 proportion kind of threw me at first.  We all shoot a lot more horizontal than we used to, but I still shoot a lot of vertical and 2:3 just breaks my brains.

James,

how do you like the idea of cropping?  I think with an 8x11 or 8x10 etched line in the viewfinder screen this would be quite practical. There are so many pixels I would be happy to lose a few if I was shooting people or portrait formats.

With the wide I'd at least be happy I was getting the widest possible field of view from my wide angle lenses.

For architecture and interiors I'd like that wider sensor, but then I'd need to shift and stitch to square up the image. I have to do that already so no problem.

I second you about the 800. I'd like good results from 25 to 800 ASA. That would do me. 800ASA on the Aptus isn't usable except for in dire emergencies.
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Snook
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« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2008, 08:00:39 AM »
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James,

how do you like the idea of cropping?  I think with an 8x11 or 8x10 etched line in the viewfinder screen this would be quite practical. There are so many pixels I would be happy to lose a few if I was shooting people or portrait formats.

With the wide I'd at least be happy I was getting the widest possible field of view from my wide angle lenses.

For architecture and interiors I'd like that wider sensor, but then I'd need to shift and stitch to square up the image. I have to do that already so no problem.

I second you about the 800. I'd like good results from 25 to 800 ASA. That would do me. 800ASA on the Aptus isn't usable except for in dire emergencies.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220772\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
When you all say it is not acceptable at 800 asa except in dire emergency, what emergency are you referring to..
Some kind of personal works where it does not matter that much??
You guys are throwing me here. I would never shoot anything for my clients even close to 800 asa.. I never even shot my 1DsMII over 320 iso for a Job...
Yes I am paranoid and hate seeing noise.. grain was cool, noise is ugly...:+}
Snook
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NBP
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« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2008, 08:17:18 AM »
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When you all say it is not acceptable at 800 asa except in dire emergency, what emergency are you referring to..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221005\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

LOL - I was thinking exactly the same!

Either you haven't taken the right lighting rig with you, or it's gone tits up -  which means re shoot, no?
Either way, 800ISO for a money shoot cannot be a good place to be  
« Last Edit: September 12, 2008, 08:18:57 AM by NBP » Logged
canmiya
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« Reply #56 on: September 15, 2008, 09:46:11 AM »
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Ahummm.... I only want to say LC10 or LC for Windows...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=220584\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
leaf capture for windows has been available on the leaf site for download since february.....
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Dustbak
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« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2008, 10:53:30 AM »
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You obviously have not been following this thread or misunderstood what I said as an reaction on somebody elses statement otherwise you would have known why I say this.

Besides that; I find it a bold statement that LC for Windows is available since February as if it is out for ever. Might I remind you it took Leaf several years to finish it as well as LC10. Both projects have repeatedly been promised long before they eventually became available (LC10 even immediately as LC11). Hence my remark on somebody elses remark that Leaf is always keeping its promises in a timely fashion. It took a very long time to get to LC11 and LC for Windows...

I guess most people have very short memories... which is a good thing. Now back to the announcement.

Great news from Leaf! I am sure I will try one the new backs eventually.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2008, 10:56:07 AM by Dustbak » Logged
canmiya
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« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2008, 02:22:07 PM »
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You obviously have not been following this thread or misunderstood what I said as an reaction on somebody elses statement otherwise you would have known why I say this.

Besides that; I find it a bold statement that LC for Windows is available since February as if it is out for ever. Might I remind you it took Leaf several years to finish it as well as LC10. Both projects have repeatedly been promised long before they eventually became available (LC10 even immediately as LC11). Hence my remark on somebody elses remark that Leaf is always keeping its promises in a timely fashion. It took a very long time to get to LC11 and LC for Windows...

I guess most people have very short memories... which is a good thing. Now back to the announcement.

Great news from Leaf! I am sure I will try one the new backs eventually.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221570\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
do excuse me for trying to be helpful....and yes i must have misuderstood what you said/meant.... when i wrote lc has been available for download since february, the intent was never to imply that 6 or 7 months was equivalent to for ever: and yes i am painfully aware of how long it took leaf to release lc11......
now that i have received my tongue/keyboard  lashing, and have appropriately apologized, i guess i can go back to my corner.
again, my apologies for simply trying to provide some information and in doing so offending you.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2008, 02:24:39 PM by canmiya » Logged
Dustbak
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« Reply #59 on: September 15, 2008, 02:43:03 PM »
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do excuse me for trying to be helpful....and yes i must have misuderstood what you said/meant.... when i wrote lc has been available for download since february, the intent was never to imply that 6 or 7 months was equivalent to for ever: and yes i am painfully aware of how long it took leaf to release lc11......
now that i have received my tongue/keyboard  lashing, and have appropriately apologized, i guess i can go back to my corner.
again, my apologies for simply trying to provide some information and in doing so offending you.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=221603\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hahaha, sorry. I might have come over a bit on the harsh side. Didn't mean to be well maybe I did but I could have interpreted your comments differently and responded in a different manner. Please do accept my apologies. You did take the lashing gracefully though
« Last Edit: September 15, 2008, 02:44:29 PM by Dustbak » Logged
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