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Author Topic: Are we going into another depression?  (Read 34709 times)
Misirlou
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« Reply #120 on: September 28, 2008, 11:48:59 AM »
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The point of B&B is the longterm effect on culture, which is beyond you. Real fascism is corporate rule, which is why we invested so much in Hitler (Bush, Harriman et al), also beyond you. And your cars of the rich is a straw man, since I spoke of cars of the common person. Come to think of it, one of Hitler's significant legacies was the car for everyone. Kinda like his pal Henry Ford, author of anti-Jewish propaganda.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225177\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Oh, I see. Somehow B&B will have a longterm effect on culture that earlier slapstick comedies never did. As if they were especially poisonous in some miraculous way that the examples I provided were not. Or is that "beyond" you.

Sorry, I'm not buying your corporate evil argument either. Between fascism and communism, close to a hundred million people were purposely murdered by governments in europe and asia during the 20th century. Our current corporations provide products and services, but they don't force you to partake of their offerings at gunpoint, much less go about purposely trying to kill the paying customer (bad for business, you know). If you can't sense the distinction between commerce and murder, well...

Cars of the common person? The common person in this country can buy what he or she likes. That they prefer to purchase things you don't does not prove some kind of corporate malfeasance is responsible for their choices. Been to a car dealer lately? Small economy cars are flying off the lots, while SUVs and trucks just sit there, despite deep discounts. It's called supply and demand.

What would be your suggestion? Besides large manufacturing corporations, who do you suppose is going to be able to design and manufacture more efficient vehicles? Who should be the arbiter of public entertainment? You?

We can have a discussion about facts and ideas, but if you're going to resort to declaring that you have superior powers of perception that entirely negate the views of anyone who disagrees with you, then there isn't much point in chatting, is there?
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rdonson
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« Reply #121 on: September 28, 2008, 01:48:22 PM »
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However I believe far more Americans are well informed that you give credit.  20 years ago, maybe, today, not so much.  We have the net to thank for that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225185\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Perhaps.  It could also be that the net only enables more people to parrot the opinions of their favorite ideologue rather than gain a deeper insight into issues.
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Ron
Craig Lamson
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« Reply #122 on: September 28, 2008, 02:06:08 PM »
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Perhaps.  It could also be that the net only enables more people to parrot the opinions of their favorite ideologue rather than gain a deeper insight into issues.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225251\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Anything is possible but I have more faith that people actually seek the truth and will attempt to view all sides of an issue.
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Rob C
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« Reply #123 on: September 28, 2008, 03:24:43 PM »
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Perhaps.  It could also be that the net only enables more people to parrot the opinions of their favorite ideologue rather than gain a deeper insight into issues.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225251\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Exactly right. And, to personalise the point, precisely what happened to me twice on this very LuLa! Some lame-brain plicks up on somebody else´s minor explosion of indignation, misreading, ignorance or whatever, thinks that´s the truth of the matter and raves on without any intention of checking back to basics, only to be echoed and embroidered upon by the next dolt along the line.

I mistrust the internet with a vengeance, using only sites such as this one where I do know something about the subject and can form my own, educated opinions and evaluations of what´s going down.

Rob C
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dalethorn
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« Reply #124 on: September 28, 2008, 04:57:23 PM »
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Oh, I see. Somehow B&B will have a longterm effect on culture that earlier slapstick comedies never did. As if they were especially poisonous in some miraculous way that the examples I provided were not. Or is that "beyond" you.

Sorry, I'm not buying your corporate evil argument either. Between fascism and communism, close to a hundred million people were purposely murdered by governments in europe and asia during the 20th century. Our current corporations provide products and services, but they don't force you to partake of their offerings at gunpoint, much less go about purposely trying to kill the paying customer (bad for business, you know). If you can't sense the distinction between commerce and murder, well...

Cars of the common person? The common person in this country can buy what he or she likes. That they prefer to purchase things you don't does not prove some kind of corporate malfeasance is responsible for their choices. Been to a car dealer lately? Small economy cars are flying off the lots, while SUVs and trucks just sit there, despite deep discounts. It's called supply and demand.

What would be your suggestion? Besides large manufacturing corporations, who do you suppose is going to be able to design and manufacture more efficient vehicles? Who should be the arbiter of public entertainment? You?

We can have a discussion about facts and ideas, but if you're going to resort to declaring that you have superior powers of perception that entirely negate the views of anyone who disagrees with you, then there isn't much point in chatting, is there?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225223\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Of course "they" murdered their people. We're too good to have done that. Your myopic view of history isn't surprising, probably too much Beavis & Butthead. You could try posting actual info as I have instead of useless opinion as you have.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #125 on: September 28, 2008, 05:00:25 PM »
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BTW, for the ignorant out there, when the car mfr's retooled for "more power" instead of better mileage, they couldn't just back up and start all over with efficient all-gas designs. Not a conspiracy, just a fact, for you paranoids out there.
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Misirlou
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« Reply #126 on: September 28, 2008, 05:11:50 PM »
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BTW, for the ignorant out there, when the car mfr's retooled for "more power" instead of better mileage, they couldn't just back up and start all over with efficient all-gas designs. Not a conspiracy, just a fact, for you paranoids out there.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225312\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Baloney. You could have bought a Honda Insight between 2000 and about 2006 that would easily get 65 mpg. Did you? Not very many other people did either, so they stopped selling them. Or, maybe you just have something against hybrid cars or something.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 05:13:55 PM by Misirlou » Logged
Misirlou
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« Reply #127 on: September 28, 2008, 05:38:05 PM »
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Of course "they" murdered their people. We're too good to have done that. Your myopic view of history isn't surprising, probably too much Beavis & Butthead. You could try posting actual info as I have instead of useless opinion as you have.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225310\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

See, here's the thing. You're bemoaning the choices lots of other people make. I suppose your contention is that they've all been duped by evil corporations, but in any case, if you're really serious about changing things, you'll either need to take away their choices by force (which I presume you don't want to do), or convince them that you have better ideas. That's going to be pretty hard as long as you freely dole out condescension and insults to people who disagree with you.

I've never watched Beavis & Butthead, not even once. Apparently, not very many other people have for quite some time either, or it would still be in production. But in three or four posts, you've slid to just saying I'm stupid and and that my opinions are useless. Believe it or not, that hasn't done much to make me want to consider your point of view.
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BFoto
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« Reply #128 on: September 28, 2008, 05:51:59 PM »
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Sheesh this is SO beyond you it’s NOT funny.  Once more and maybe this time it will sink in.

The FED makes it OWN decisions.  It has a mandate by statue (that’s a LAW in case you don't understand).  The ONLY way congress (who makes the laws) can order the FED to do ANYTHING is to create a new law.  The Presidents only role is one of appointment, and his appointments span many terms.  He can't order the FED to do ANYTHING either.  The government does not fund the FED and the actual shares of stock in the FED are MEMBER BANK owned.

So to clear this up for you once and for all (as it seems your repeated trips to wiki and Google are failing you) the "federal" regulators were actually the FED who act for themselves and not the government.  The regulations (note there is a regulation and not your mythical "deregulation") require they step in to a seize a failing bank.  They then brokered a PRIVATE deal between to private companies.  Notice the key word here is PRIVATE. SO to review ONCE again for you.  The GOVERNMENT was not involved. The FED was. You got it yet?

And for you final mistake...the FED does not "manage our tax dollars.  Congress does that.  Give it up.  You don't have a clue.

Next time forget wiki and go to the source.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm#5
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225107\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You are delusional to think the Fed and your government are mutually exclusive. Read closely my fellow freedom lover.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #129 on: September 28, 2008, 06:12:50 PM »
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Baloney. You could have bought a Honda Insight between 2000 and about 2006 that would easily get 65 mpg. Did you? Not very many other people did either, so they stopped selling them. Or, maybe you just have something against hybrid cars or something.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225316\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Don't you ever read before you post? I plainly said 62mpg with an *all gas* car, not a car with a limited warrantied seven thousand dollar battery.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #130 on: September 28, 2008, 06:18:10 PM »
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See, here's the thing. You're bemoaning the choices lots of other people make. I suppose your contention is that they've all been duped by evil corporations, but in any case, if you're really serious about changing things, you'll either need to take away their choices by force (which I presume you don't want to do), or convince them that you have better ideas. That's going to be pretty hard as long as you freely dole out condescension and insults to people who disagree with you.

I've never watched Beavis & Butthead, not even once. Apparently, not very many other people have for quite some time either, or it would still be in production. But in three or four posts, you've slid to just saying I'm stupid and and that my opinions are useless. Believe it or not, that hasn't done much to make me want to consider your point of view.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225325\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
More disinformation. You don't have reasonable choices. You can't choose the all-gas 62mpg full size car because *nobody* makes it. Why does nobody make it? Because the people are stupid, and the mfr's sold bigger, more expensive cars with a screw-the-future attitude. Do you honestly think that you can evolve from mud slime into a god who knows everything? From your posts, it appears so.
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Misirlou
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« Reply #131 on: September 28, 2008, 07:14:28 PM »
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Don't you ever read before you post? I plainly said 62mpg with an *all gas* car, not a car with a limited warrantied seven thousand dollar battery.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225336\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Right back at you. Read the last sentence of the post.
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Misirlou
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« Reply #132 on: September 28, 2008, 07:20:09 PM »
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More disinformation. You don't have reasonable choices. You can't choose the all-gas 62mpg full size car because *nobody* makes it. Why does nobody make it? Because the people are stupid, and the mfr's sold bigger, more expensive cars with a screw-the-future attitude. Do you honestly think that you can evolve from mud slime into a god who knows everything? From your posts, it appears so.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225339\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Let's see, the thrust of my last post was that you aren't going to influence very many people through insult and condescension, and you just go and lay it on a little deeper. Nice.

At least you have a simple test for others: Anyone who chooses differently than you is stupid mud slime, etc., etc. Very persuasive.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #133 on: September 28, 2008, 07:21:07 PM »
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Right back at you. Read the last sentence of the post.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225349\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm happy that you've made these posts. They are providing excellent whiteboard material for my psych group roundtable discussions.
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Craig Lamson
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« Reply #134 on: September 28, 2008, 08:17:23 PM »
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You are delusional to think the Fed and your government are mutually exclusive. Read closely my fellow freedom lover.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225331\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Exactly WHERE did I say they were "mutually exclusive"?  In fact I was quite clear on the relationship. I'm really sorry your limited knowlege of the subject came back to bite, but thems the breaks.

Perhaps you would be wise to avail yourself of your own advice and learn to read AND comprehend before you post.
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dalethorn
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« Reply #135 on: September 28, 2008, 09:11:48 PM »
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Let's see, the thrust of my last post was that you aren't going to influence very many people through insult and condescension, and you just go and lay it on a little deeper. Nice.

At least you have a simple test for others: Anyone who chooses differently than you is stupid mud slime, etc., etc. Very persuasive.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225351\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I see that you'll regurgitate anything to not lose an argument that you're losing badly. You in your myopia may assume the god-thing is out of left field, but it's a serious challenge. Where is the evidence that you're sentient? You have a lot of anger and hostility, and repressed feelings. But you simply do retorts and knee-jerk responses, and don't provide any real info. I think it's because you've grown up on TV and your mind belongs to the PR firms that make the commercials.
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Misirlou
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« Reply #136 on: September 28, 2008, 10:08:59 PM »
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I see that you'll regurgitate anything to not lose an argument that you're losing badly. You in your myopia may assume the god-thing is out of left field, but it's a serious challenge. Where is the evidence that you're sentient? You have a lot of anger and hostility, and repressed feelings. But you simply do retorts and knee-jerk responses, and don't provide any real info. I think it's because you've grown up on TV and your mind belongs to the PR firms that make the commercials.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225380\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ok, that's it. I've challenged you repeatedly to engage in reasoned discourse, but all you do is throw around accusations and insults, some of which are quite bizarre. I was really hoping to share some ideas you might not have considered, but I can see that sort of thing isn't possible with you. Good luck. I wish you all the best.
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BFoto
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« Reply #137 on: September 29, 2008, 01:13:32 AM »
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Exactly WHERE did I say they were "mutually exclusive"?  In fact I was quite clear on the relationship. I'm really sorry your limited knowlege of the subject came back to bite, but thems the breaks.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225363\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Well then thats kinda the point isn't!!!

Mutually exclusive - have a look at wiki and you will see a definition moron. The relationship is exactly what it is, a government entity.

You wonder why the world thinks you are all ignorant and arrogant, cause of trolls like you.
 
I'm done here.
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Tony Beach
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« Reply #138 on: September 29, 2008, 02:35:16 AM »
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The bottom line is that the US never forced anyone to buy anything, and the financials making the purchases were quite savvy and knew the risks.[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The risks were packaged up as AAA investments, certified by what had been presumed to be the most reliable sources in the industry at the time (Standard and Poor, Moody's, et al). If the risks were as transparent as you make them out to be, then why was the Secretary of Treasury blindsided and when he gave key member of congress a closed door briefing they were all shocked by the extent of the looming financial catastrophe?

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In 03 GW Bush, along with others saw the problem with Freddy and Fanny growing out of control and he wanted to create EVEN MORE regulation to reign them in.  Congress said no.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=225111\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Congress was controlled by the Republicans at that time; both houses.  They rammed plenty of legislation through over the objections of the Democrats, more than once extending the voting deadline until they had enough votes to win.

Current GOP candidate McCain is [a href=\"http://messageboards.aol.com/aol/en_us/articles.php?boardId=455943&articleId=690275&func=5&channel=News]hip deep in lobbyists[/url] who worked for this outcome.
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Martin Kristiansen
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« Reply #139 on: September 29, 2008, 05:19:40 AM »
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I live in South Africa and fully expect to feel severe fallout from this crisis. Our local banks bought a slice of the sub prime crisis and that is going to hurt. They were not forced to buy these highly leveraged complex financial instruments, they did it because they thought they would get a good return. You could say it was greed driven. In fact it was all greed driven.

I have lived in the U.S.A, England and Israel. People are the same all over. I don't buy for a moment that Europeans are less greedy and more morally responsible than Americans. It was greed that led to melamine being put in baby food in China, greed that led a well respected European country to sell millions of landmines to African warlords and greed that led to the African warlords using the mines. No country or zone or hemisphere has a patent on greed I'm afraid. It is just what people do.

What is really an indication of successful propaganda is people having a go at each other along nationalistic lines. It means that all is well and we are continuing to buy the rubbish put out by our leaders that it is some other country to blame for our woes while they continue to shaft us.

Anyway i am glad I bought a camera with lots of pixels, it might be my last chance.
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