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Author Topic: HP Artist Matte Canvas with Z3100  (Read 2769 times)
ThePhotoDude
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« on: September 20, 2008, 12:21:26 PM »
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Hi,

I am having an awful time getting this canvas to print correctly.
I have used APS on my Z3100 and printed TC9.18 RGB test chart.

The results I am getting are over saturating, particularly in the reds, extreme contrast and posturzing of the colors. The posturizing is caused by the high contrast.

I have had to edit the profile, and bring the contrast and saturation down, which makes it look better but I still cannot get it to print, or even soft proof, correctly.

Anyone else have problems with this canvas type? I have no other problems with other papers. Is there something I can do, anyone want to lend me a profile you have done?

Thanks
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dandeliondigital
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« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2008, 01:38:11 PM »
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PhotoDude,
Have never had a problem making profiles for matte canvas, and I have done quite a few different brands, and the results have been very accurate for soft proofing and for printing. Glossy Canvas is not do-able because the on-board spectro doesn't read it, and if you profile with a third party spectro, you cannot currently install the profile without an error. HP acknowledged this problem to me early in 2008 and said the fix for that will come probably by early 2009 in a firmware update.

So I recommend doing some troubleshooting with some cheaper stock first to determine your printer is functioning correctly. There must be something else going on with the hardware.

Good luck, So long for now, TOM

Quote
Hi,

I am having an awful time getting this canvas to print correctly.
I have used APS on my Z3100 and printed TC9.18 RGB test chart.

The results I am getting are over saturating, particularly in the reds, extreme contrast and posturzing of the colors. The posturizing is caused by the high contrast.

I have had to edit the profile, and bring the contrast and saturation down, which makes it look better but I still cannot get it to print, or even soft proof, correctly.

Anyone else have problems with this canvas type? I have no other problems with other papers. Is there something I can do, anyone want to lend me a profile you have done?

Thanks
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Larry Adamache
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« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2008, 04:33:07 PM »
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"if you profile with a third party spectro, you cannot currently install the profile without an error. HP acknowledged this problem to me early in 2008 and said the fix for that will come probably by early 2009 in a firmware update."


Tom

What do you mean you can't install the profile?  Do you mean you can't copy any profile to the printer?  Can you not use "photoshop managed color" when printing and use the profile from your OS?

Cheers, Larry
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dandeliondigital
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« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2008, 09:35:12 PM »
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Hi Larry,
Specifically, before firmware upgrade TR12-TR12PS_6.0.0.7 for my Z3100ps, I used a work around to profile glossy canvas because the on board spectro cannot do that. It's a know limitation for which I had a work around in place. I printed an X-rite target on glossy canvas and used my X-rite Pulse to make an RGB profile  (CMYK Profiles are not supported) which I then was able to install it as the default profile for my custom canvas using the HP software.

After doing the firmware upgrade to 6.0.0.7, I used HP Printer Utility v3.1.0 "INSTALL PROFILE" command, but unlike in the past when I was able to INSTALL my Pulse profile, I received an error. FYI, I am on Mac OS X, and I am using the postscript version of the printer.

I contacted both X-Rite and HP, both seemed interested in finding a solution, and after about 3 months of waiting for a resolution, I got a call (out of the blue early this year), from an HP engineer who said that "capability"  didn't work with the current firmware, and would be "fixed" in a firmware update most likely by the end of of this year.

I really hope they do fix that because I miss it. It did work for a while, and I don't see why it's such a big problem, or why they removed that capability. I had naively always thought ICC profiles were "standardized" and based upon interoperability rules, but this incident has made me wary. I am not very trusting of the software makers to implement what the marketing departments sell. Believe me that when I was reading the marketing in April 2007 before I bought my Z, I was so excited, especially by the paper presets concept and the onboard spectro.

So do you know for sure that if you create a custom media and give it a canned non-specific profile that isn't your custom profile for that media, and then print using "photoshop managed color" with the custom profile, that the HPZ software doesn't use any information from the profile it associates with the media, as a matter of design?

I don't have enough time left to do the experimentation, and work arounds. Just keeping up with all these updates and software inconsistancies (improvements?) eats the clock, just like answering these e-mails, but I'm into it tonight!

;-)

To be more emphatic about why I do not assume any more here's another example for you. We use Corel Painter X, and I was very grateful for their implementation of soft proofing and color management. They have a very graphical display that makes setting things up very convenient, it better because you should set it up for each file. Anyway, after the HP firmware upgrade TR12-TR12PS_6.0.0.7 for my Z3100ps, profiles I create with HP Utility or with APS, do something that "breaks" Corel's ability to use the profile names in their pop up menus where they now appear illegibly (and unintelligible), thus rendering the entire color management system useless. You cannot set the profile you need to use. I couldn't believe this, so I pursued an answer. It just seemed unbelievable to me. In the end Corel admitted it was a know problem (HP had sent me to Corel sternly standing it's ground as the one in the right). So, I have been waiting for 3 weeks shy of a year for a fix from Corel which hasn't been coming. FYI, I've been on forums and color management experts have dissected my profiles and in the end they all said they couldn't find a work around. Too bad, for all parties, I'd say, and what a ridiculous waste of everybody's time, and really so unprofessional.
 
So I hope that clarifies things for you.

So long for now, TOM

[ quote=Larry Adamache,Sep 20 2008, 05:33 PM]
"if you profile with a third party spectro, you cannot currently install the profile without an error. HP acknowledged this problem to me early in 2008 and said the fix for that will come probably by early 2009 in a firmware update."
Tom

What do you mean you can't install the profile?  Do you mean you can't copy any profile to the printer?  Can you not use "photoshop managed color" when printing and use the profile from your OS?

Cheers, Larry
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[/quote]
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Larry Adamache
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2008, 05:21:33 PM »
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Quote from: dandeliondigital,Sep 20 2008, 07:35 PM
"Hi Larry,
Specifically, before firmware upgrade TR12-TR12PS_6.0.0.7 for my Z3100ps, I used a work around to profile glossy canvas because the on board spectro cannot do that. It's a know limitation for which I had a work around in place. I printed an X-rite target on glossy canvas and used my X-rite Pulse to make an RGB profile  (CMYK Profiles are not supported) which I then was able to install it as the default profile for my custom canvas using the HP software.

After doing the firmware upgrade to 6.0.0.7, I used HP Printer Utility v3.1.0 "INSTALL PROFILE" command, but unlike in the past when I was able to INSTALL my Pulse profile, I received an error. FYI, I am on Mac OS X, and I am using the postscript version of the printer.

I contacted both X-Rite and HP, both seemed interested in finding a solution, and after about 3 months of waiting for a resolution, I got a call (out of the blue early this year), from an HP engineer who said that "capability"  didn't work with the current firmware, and would be "fixed" in a firmware update most likely by the end of of this year.

I really hope they do fix that because I miss it. It did work for a while, and I don't see why it's such a big problem, or why they removed that capability. I had naively always thought ICC profiles were "standardized" and based upon interoperability rules, but this incident has made me wary. I am not very trusting of the software makers to implement what the marketing departments sell. Believe me that when I was reading the marketing in April 2007 before I bought my Z, I was so excited, especially by the paper presets concept and the onboard spectro.

So do you know for sure that if you create a custom media and give it a canned non-specific profile that isn't your custom profile for that media, and then print using "photoshop managed color" with the custom profile, that the HPZ software doesn't use any information from the profile it associates with the media, as a matter of design?

I don't have enough time left to do the experimentation, and work arounds. Just keeping up with all these updates and software inconsistancies (improvements?) eats the clock, just like answering these e-mails, but I'm into it tonight!
 
So I hope that clarifies things for you."


Thanks for the detailed explanation Tom.  I don't know how the HPZ print utility deals with internal (driver) or external (OS) profiles when using PS managed color, but I'm going to play with this and see what happens.  So far I've installed Hahnemuhle supplied profiles on my OS (Vista 64 bit) and with the printer driver with no problems.  I have firmware ver. 6.0.0.8 on the standard model.

I share your feelings about updates and inconsistencies.  I dread buying new equipment and software updates because of the time needed to get everything working and learning new features.

Best regards
Larry
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