Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: [1]   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Ranking system  (Read 5761 times)
soslund
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 76


« on: September 20, 2008, 11:44:41 PM »
ReplyReply

I'm just curious as to what sort of ranking (stars, colors) systems people are using.  Michael and Jeff allude to this in the LL 2 video, but didn't go into much detail.  What works? What doesn't work?  How do you assign stars? Colors?  I realize that this is a rather broad question, and that answers will vary, but I'd be interested in some comments so as not to try to reinvent the wheel.  Thanks.  Scott
Logged
Josh-H
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1905



WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2008, 12:11:34 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I'm just curious as to what sort of ranking (stars, colors) systems people are using. Michael and Jeff allude to this in the LL 2 video, but didn't go into much detail. What works? What doesn't work? How do you assign stars? Colors? I realize that this is a rather broad question, and that answers will vary, but I'd be interested in some comments so as not to try to reinvent the wheel. Thanks. Scott
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Personally, this is how I do it.

I sort through an import and assign flags. A flag means to me an image that needs processing and that I want to work on.  I also flag any images I reject and want to delete with the 'X' flag.

This gives me my picks for processing and deleting and a bunch of others which are unflagged and that I probably wont process, but want to keep the RAWS in case I ever come back to them.

Then once I process an image in the develop module I assign it a star rating 1 to 5. 5 being the best and 1 being 'just worth keeping'.

I dont assign colors at all as I find them distracting. Although I may use them temporarily on a processed file to indicate as a reminder to myself that it needs more work in photoshop.

I keyword extensivley, so for print files etc. I just rely on my keywords such as 'Canon PF5100', which instantly means to me this is a print file for the Canon IPF5100. I name my print files with the appendage '-Print-IlfordGoldFibreSilk-Perceptual' as an example.
Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 12:11:58 AM by Josh-H » Logged

Bill Carr
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 17


WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2008, 06:07:55 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
I'm just curious as to what sort of ranking (stars, colors) systems people are using.  Michael and Jeff allude to this in the LL 2 video, but didn't go into much detail.  What works? What doesn't work?  How do you assign stars? Colors?  I realize that this is a rather broad question, and that answers will vary, but I'd be interested in some comments so as not to try to reinvent the wheel.  Thanks.  Scott
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Flags: flagged for future processing, unflagged for other keepers, Xflag to delete

Colors: Purple = on website, Blue = ready for website, Yellow = Chosen for website but not processed

Numbers: not currently used.
Logged
Tim Gray
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2002



WWW
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2008, 07:34:10 AM »
ReplyReply

This is in LR.  First pass - I don't x flag, if it needs trashing it gets deleted right then and there.  Trashing is usually for OOF or truly bad composition.  0 stars are the "ho hum, so what" images.  1 star = some potential, 2 stars means I'll definitely work on it.  Color means part of a bracket, either pano, hdr or dof.  At the end of the first pass I show only the ones with 1 or 2 stars and use the comparison feature to start to choose which 1 stars need to be 2.  After the second pass I filter and show only the 2's and start working those.  If I change my mind it gets 1 star and drops off the filter.  Once an image is worked up it gets 3 stars so when I'm done I have no stars, 1 stars (not worked, but an OK image) and 3 stars.  The images with no stars are deleted from the working directory.  (When I do the import to LR I back up to a separate drive - so in effect I have no back up for the no star images - that's ok for me)   Once I've worked all the files I want, I select from the 3 stars for my web site, they get 4 stars.  All worked on images are backed up after processing (the raw and resulting final file).  So I end up with 3 copies of the good RAW files, 2 copies of the final image and 1 copy of everything else (the deletes and the 0 stars).  The ones I print go into a quick collection.  At the end of the year, I review all the 4 stars and choose the "best of" and they get 5 stars and go into a Blurb book and their own quick collection.

When I write this down it seems more complicated than it really is.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 07:43:24 AM by Tim Gray » Logged
feppe
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2909

Oh this shows up in here!


WWW
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2008, 09:38:31 AM »
ReplyReply

I have the following rating system which I use - the idea is to have a diminishing # of shots in each category.

1 star - Crud
2 star - Ho-hum
3 star - Best shot(s) of a session
4 star - Best shots of the season
5 star - Best shots I've ever taken

For color coding, I use these categories:

To Edit (flagging photos which go to editing)
Pre-Master (photos which are ready for PS mastering - although I'm forgoing PS altogether quite often these days)
Master (Capture sharpened, spotted and tweaked master)
Edited Master (a Master which has been edited in PS or LR)
Picked Master (to distinguish the best of several versions of the same shot)

So Master is where all 3 star or higher end up. If I do extensive editing or different versions of the same shot, I use the latter two categories as well.

I don't use flags as my rating system makes that redundant.
Logged

DavidB
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 241


WWW
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2008, 09:47:35 AM »
ReplyReply

Different systems for different people.

I don't like the reject flag as an indicator that something needs deleting: flags are inherited by and then local to collections.  When I decide to delete something I don't want to have to do something different if I'm in a folder or a collection.  I use a colour (red in my case) to mark it for deletion.  If I'm then removing it from a collection I can go ahead and do that without losing the deletion-mark (if I marked it as a reject and then deleted it from the collection that flag would disappear).
I will use flags for various purposes when working on groups of images, but not for "global" purposes.

For me, 0 stars just means I haven't rated it yet rather than saying something about the quality of the image.  If I get distracted I can come back to things hours or days later and pick up where I left off.  1-5 stars is ascending quality.
I use a couple of colours so far for special purposes, but not all of them yet.
Logged

NikoJorj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1063


WWW
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2008, 06:09:48 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote
Then once I process an image in the develop module I assign it a star rating 1 to 5. 5 being the best and 1 being 'just worth keeping'.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=222977\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Same for me, and it's my main ranking method. No star are "things I may keep just in case" but I don't do much with them (for me it would be redundent with flagging).

For deletion, I may use the X flag in some cases, but generally I delete the images who deserve it before, after importing in PhotoMechanic (better import than LR, especially in the folder naming and backup folders areas).

I use the colors for special needs, generally for photos to be processed in PS (red) or the pano stitcher (violet).
Logged

Nicolas from Grenoble
A small gallery
kaelaria
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2226



WWW
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2008, 07:00:49 AM »
ReplyReply

I don't rank much at all.  After import I step through each one and flag X any stinkers, and delete them as soon as I'm done going through the batch.  As I process what's left when I see something that stands out I give it a star to come back to later for special processing.

I do mostly weddings.  For landscapes I don't rank at all, if it's not something I would print/sell/use in some way other than take up disc space I generally don't keep it.
Logged

madmanchan
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2108


« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2008, 08:15:03 AM »
ReplyReply

I import the images, then do a quick pass and generally assign 1-star to half of them. Then I do another pass over the 1-star images and give 2 stars to a few of them.

I then delete all 0 star images. About a month later I review the 1-star images and see if I want to change my mind on any of them (usually not). Then I delete the 1-star images.
Logged

Mike Guilbault
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 817



WWW
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2008, 09:59:29 PM »
ReplyReply

On first pass I'll 'x' the bad ones and delete when I'm done.  Then I tag everything with one star.  I'll go through these with the client and the ones they don't like, I'll un-star, leaving them with no rating.  If they really like it, I'll give it two stars.  If it's a final selection I'll give it three stars.  If it's a keeper for my portfolio, online or in an album, it's 4 stars - and if it's a sample print in my gallery - 5 stars.
Logged

dchew
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 563



WWW
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2008, 05:43:03 AM »
ReplyReply

Stars:
1 = Kept for some reason but no anticipated use.
2 = Good enough to be used / shown to others. Future article, topic specific, etc.
3 = Very select images.  Reflect my style; marketable.
4 = These are my top images that define an 'era' in my photographic learning.
5 = These would be extremely important, life-defining photos.  I don't have any yet!

I think the key to ranking is have some sort of strict criteria that's difficult to 'interpret' differently over time.  I periodically go through my images, especially the 3-4's and compare them to ensure I'm being consistent.  This usually results in some being either elevated or dropped a rank (usually the latter).  Also, I aspire to stick to the 1/10 ratio.  If I have 1,000 2's, then I should have ~100 3's and ~10 4's.  Otherwise I'm not really using my criteria as a good filter...I'm not there yet.

Colors:
I don't use these much except blue for B&W processed files.  I may use red or other colors temporarily for some specific sorting that would become a collection.  Almost like a flag.

Dave Chew
Logged

jani
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1604



WWW
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2008, 06:13:25 PM »
ReplyReply

I'm still a hobby photographer.

My workflow has changed a bit since I started using Lightroom during the first betas. I like to think of it as personal development.

At import time, I try to use a few keywords that are common for the shoot. I may postpone this step until after import, and mark a bunch of images that I then add keywords to.

I use the colours, stars and pick/reject flags, and still feel like something's missing.

Before, I used to delete duds right away. Just recently, I started flagging them as rejects and deleting them afterwards instead, simply because that means less work.

As I proceed through the body of a shoot, I also try to fit my images into different categories.

For instance, I just returned from a 18 day vacation to continental Europe, in which I used my 20D for vacation snapshots, "oh-that-looks-cool" snapshots, and finally some vain  attempts at more serious photography.

I quickly decided on using colour codes to distinguish these categories.  Red for pictures with my friends in them, yellow for other possible keepers. These I also add subject specific keywords to.

Images with colours will be reviewed immediately or later for possible image enhancements in the Develop module. If I have concrete ideas on what to do with an image, I try to act on that immediately, unless it's bog standard adjustments.

In these possible keepers categories, I flag as "pick" those that I feel pretty certain that I want to present to someone.

I also use the stars to note that I'm satisfied with an image, and my scale is slightly stricter than Dave Chew's:

1 = Something I'm likely to show to others, which doesn't embarass me (before the criticism, anyway )
2 = I'm reasonably happy.
3 = My expectations are pretty high, I feel that it's a quality image.

I don't know what would merit a 4 or 5.

After enhancing the images as far as I'm willing to go in Lightroom, I may either export directly to a web gallery, or go to Photoshop for further work.
Logged

Jan
terence_patrick
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 149


WWW
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2008, 02:30:07 PM »
ReplyReply

1 star = first round of edit, shots I think will be acceptable for publication
2 stars = second round of edit, shots I will spend more time on because I think they're stronger
3 stars = third round of edit, shots to be presented to client
3 stars + green = hero shots
4 stars = portfolio
Logged
Ronny Nilsen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


WWW
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2008, 06:02:22 AM »
ReplyReply

I now base my work flow in LR2 on smart collections and keywords.

When I go through my images in a folder I have a preset of keywords so when I tag
an image with my special "candidate" keyword, it will end up in a special smart collection
for candidate images, that is images I will consider more closely later to make a final
decision if I want to use/work on the image.

I then go into the candidate collection and make decisions on which images I will not use
after all (remove the candidate keyword), or tag with a "develop" keyword if I want to use
the image (and then remove the candidate keyword) to send it to the next smart collection
that is where I have the images that need adjustments in LR develop module.

After develop I will either send the image to my print smart collection indicating that the
image is finished and ready for use, or I will send it to my PhotoShop smart collection if the
image need a round trip to PS (usually) before going to the print collection.

By setting up a preset of work flow keywords and matching smart collections this is a fast
and easy way to have images i various stages and it's easy to find the images I'm working
on or that is ready for printing/use.

I star mark the final images.

And I have a separate keyword set and matching smart collections to indicate different
usages of the images.

I will of course also keyword images in the normal way with location, names etc.

Ronny
Logged

jani
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1604



WWW
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2008, 06:25:39 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: ronnynil
I now base my work flow in LR2 on smart collections and keywords.
(...)

Hmm.

This is actually a pretty convincing argument for migrating to Lightroom 2. Collections in LR 1.x are a bit cumbersome. Thanks!
Logged

Jan
Nat Coalson
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 195


WWW
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2008, 12:14:13 AM »
ReplyReply

I think this is a very interesting thread. Everyone has a solid system that works for them, and I think that's what matters. It's great to hear what other people have worked out. Ronnynil, your workflow interests me in the way you've taken advantage of smart collections. The only thing I don't like about the keywording aspect is that I wouldn't necessarily want to distribute files with "candidate" or "develop" included. But I really like the line of thinking.

Before LR, I used stars only. Now, I always start with pick flags. I like it because it's more of a yes/no decision than "1 star out of 5". I mark all the winners from the first pass as picks, then filter the source so I'm only looking at those. I do additional rounds, adding stars starting at 1, and then filtering after each round. Usually after 2 or 3 round I have the final selects, which I put into a Collection named for the shoot.

From the shoot selects, I may still further refine/rank/delete etc. And I often will put an image into several collections while editing, each for a different purpose.

I currently view Smart Collections much like filters. You can apply a Smart Collection to single or multiple sources in the Library left panel by first selecting the Smart Collection, then hold cmd or ctrl and select the folder(s) or other collections that the Smart Collection filtering will be applied to.

Powerful stuff, but I haven't quite found a good use for it, because I always make my own Collections, named for the work, at the end of my editing passes. After that, I never go back to folders unless I suspect there's something better there that i've overlooked.
Logged

Ronny Nilsen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


WWW
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2008, 12:57:07 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: Nat Coalson
I think this is a very interesting thread. Everyone has a solid system that works for them, and I think that's what matters. It's great to hear what other people have worked out. Ronnynil, your workflow interests me in the way you've taken advantage of smart collections. The only thing I don't like about the keywording aspect is that I wouldn't necessarily want to distribute files with "candidate" or "develop" included. But I really like the line of thinking.

You don't have to export those keywords, just right click the keywords and select "Edit Keyword Tag" and uncheck
the "Include on Export". That way you can export the other keywords from LR, but exclude your workflow keywords.
Until you export all keywords will only be in the LR database anyway.

I have tried to write a better explanation of my usage of smart collections and workflow here.

Ronny
Logged

john beardsworth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2755



WWW
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2008, 04:14:51 AM »
ReplyReply

Unless you are unusually careful and consistent, sooner or later "workflow" keywords will find their way into images that are exported. It's simply best not to pollute keywords with words or phrases which don't do what keywords are supposed to do - describe the image's contents.

Rather than abusing keywords, notice that in LR2 smart collections also allow you to query collection names, you can have a "candidate" dumb collection and set a smart collection criterion to look for any images with candidate in the collection name. Also note that the new target collection feature allows you to set any dumb collection as the target - hit B and the image is added to it. Use this to set the "candidate" dumb collection as the target, then switch the target to the "print" dumb collection etc.

LR2 also allows you to define custom fields, but only through the SDK. You can set these up for various workflow purposes, and they can be visible via smart collections and filters.

John
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 04:19:16 AM by johnbeardy » Logged

Ronny Nilsen
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 340


WWW
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2008, 05:24:25 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: johnbeardy
Unless you are unusually careful and consistent, sooner or later "workflow" keywords will find their way into images that are exported. It's simply best not to pollute keywords with words or phrases which don't do what keywords are supposed to do - describe the image's contents.

I agree that it's a workaround, but since I newer include keywords when I export my images this is not
a worry for me, but YMMV.

Your suggestions will also work fine, but for me they are a bit more cumbersome in use than the keywords.
The keywords have a lot of flexibility in their use in LR with the possibility of preset, auto complete etc.,
hence my abuse of them.  

The ideal solution would of course be to have a dedicated workflow tag system in LR to be able to tag the
progress of working with the images in various stages. One obvious improvement of my system could be to
let the first "candidate" smart collection pick up images that have the pick flag set.

Ronny
Logged

john beardsworth
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2755



WWW
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2008, 06:10:19 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: ronnynil
I agree that it's a workaround, but since I newer include keywords when I export my images this is not a worry for me, but YMMV.

I don't think it's a YMMV thing. It's a method which you may be able to make work, and I reckon I'm also extremely careful, methodical and consistent with such things. Yet as much as I agree with the underlying approach of using smart collections, I would think of recommending this keyword-based workaround for general use.

If nothing else, most people do include keywords upon export. Putting that aside, sooner or later they'll forget to untick the export setting - if they even realize it's there. Or they'll mistakenly add another workflow keyword, maybe by mistyping, or forget it needs to be a word that's unique in the catalogue and isn't a proper descriptive keyword. Or they'll change the workflow keyword on one computer and not on the other, and then merge the catalogues. With these workarounds, something always goes wrong. While it's easier to apply keywords, it's their very flexibility which eventually makes them messy. I'd always recommend using them for what they're for, describing pictures, and using other features for workflow control.

John
Logged

Pages: [1]   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad