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Author Topic: New HP z3200 printer  (Read 25311 times)
dkeyes
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« on: September 22, 2008, 10:43:26 PM »
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Ran across the new HP z3200 printer on their site here:
http://h10088.www1.hp.com/cda/gap/display/...res|alwatson|b1

As usual the links to more info don't work. Might still be updating the info right now. Looks like new red/black printhead and red ink (still 12 inks).

Also noticed they have a link to a new Baryte satin paper which sounds very interesting to me. Looking forward to hearing more about this in the coming days.
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kaelaria
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« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2008, 12:11:02 AM »
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I would bet it has an almost imperceptible gamut improvement, and everything else is unchanged.
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neil snape
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« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2008, 08:27:11 AM »
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I would bet it has an almost imperceptible gamut improvement, and everything else is unchanged.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223495\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No it's a big improvement over the past series. Yet there is no reason why it wasn't done beforehand, nor is there any reason why current users shouldn't benefit with their Z3100 printers.
You have to know that on optimized media the prints on the Z are on par with any of the other LFPs .
Albert Watson has a show in Cologne with some new prints on the new Z, Douglas Kirkland, Thomas Hoepker which will be as usual as good as they can be. They will be as good as or better than darkroom prints, and let the photography talk for itself, as it should.
The problem though is when using third party or non optimised media that there are surprises.
That is why a Baryta that is made for the Z is a good thing as most of the other Baryta so far on HP are problematic. Even with the best Baryta I've ever seen , the Hahenmuhle PhotoRag Baryta (the new one) with HP inks you have to fight with wiping off a haze, bronzing in the light grey, bronzing in the light colours, gloss uniformity. Those are problems that Epson users experience less or not at all. Canon fixed their problems by changing the magenta, and their reds were always great with the 12 ink systems. They changed the greys to reduce bronzing to near zero.

Although the entry of the Z was spectacular, this news doesn't have anything in the way of a promise other than what should have been designed in the first place.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2008, 09:29:55 AM »
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And no new 17" model yet.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers
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Colorwave
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« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2008, 10:58:53 AM »
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I'd appreciate comments about the surface and texture of the new HP Baryte paper.  I wish it was heavier than 290 gsm, but perhaps it is stiffer than some of the other new offerings.  Can someone lay eyes on some of it and report how the finish and texture compare to some of the other new offerings it is competing with?  

I was looking forward to the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta, but the idea of having to polish my prints does not sound appealing.  On the other hand, 315 gsm for the PRB should be quite a lot heavier than 290 of HPs new paper.  Also, going their own way, as usual, I notice that HP doesn't want to call it Baryta like the others, and labels it Baryte.

Unless I missed it, are there any other major features of the Z3200 other than red gamut?

-Ron H.
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neil snape
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« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2008, 11:18:32 AM »
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I'd appreciate comments about the surface and texture of the new HP Baryte paper.  I wish it was heavier than 290 gsm, but perhaps it is stiffer than some of the other new offerings.  Can someone lay eyes on some of it and report how the finish and texture compare to some of the other new offerings it is competing with? 

I was looking forward to the Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta, but the idea of having to polish my prints does not sound appealing.  On the other hand, 315 gsm for the PRB should be quite a lot heavier than 290 of HPs new paper.  Also, going their own way, as usual, I notice that HP doesn't want to call it Baryta like the others, and labels it Baryte.

Unless I missed it, are there any other major features of the Z3200 other than red gamut?

-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223634\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It's faster, they changed the interface a bit for building profiles, they changed the inside of the rear sheet loader slightly, not much else.
With a Z on Photo paper you should really be using GE, in which case you don't have to polish prints.

I will ask about this new paper when I'm at Photokina.

Ernst will be there tomorrow too so let's send him on a mission.
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dkeyes
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« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2008, 11:41:31 AM »
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I wonder if we will be able to change the ink head(s) and red ink in the old z3100 to take advantage of the new red.
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dajaka
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2008, 12:36:44 PM »
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For those of us who have suffered with poor reds on non photo papers it would add insult to injury for HP not to package the new red ink in a form us Z3100 users could take advantage of.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2008, 01:23:25 PM »
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It's faster, they changed the interface a bit for building profiles, they changed the inside of the rear sheet loader slightly, not much else.
With a Z on Photo paper you should really be using GE, in which case you don't have to polish prints.

I will ask about this new paper when I'm at Photokina.

Ernst will be there tomorrow too so let's send him on a mission.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Had it planned already. Not that much printer news so more time for papers.  Hahnemühle, HP, Innova, Intelicoat that must have the Crane portfolio for the EU now, Canson.

Anyone familiar with the quality of the HP and Noritsu "dry" minilabs that use inkjet printing for the prints ? According to Wilhelm the print life of the HP prints is several times that of Fuji Crystal but I wonder what the gamut is compared with Crystal. Not a Photokina first but I wasn't aware of this development.



Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers/[/url]
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Colorwave
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2008, 04:28:39 PM »
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With a Z on Photo paper you should really be using GE, in which case you don't have to polish prints.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223639\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I do use gloss enhancer on this type of paper, but since I don't have any PR Baryta to play with, I misinterpreted your comment about polishing.  I've seen bronzing on prints made with GE (Ilford Gold Gallerie Silk, for instance), so I thought you were saying they needed wiping even with the GE on.
-Ron H.
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neil snape
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2008, 12:39:45 AM »
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Ernst;

HP use Vivera pigments in the SnapFish kiosk printers. So the paper used being similar to Advanced Glossy/Instant Dry come in with excellent lightfastness and waterproof to boot.
The use a doubled up print head that covers a very wide swath so the thing prints an A6 in seconds.
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Osequis
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2008, 05:53:55 AM »
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MacWorld (very lite) review of the new HP z3200

http://www.macworld.com/article/135690/200...gnjetz3200.html
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neil snape
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2008, 06:19:46 AM »
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MacWorld (very lite) review of the new HP z3200

http://www.macworld.com/article/135690/200...gnjetz3200.html
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223888\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



I'm surprised that they even criticized the new printer at all considering the number of ad pages paid for. by the maker.
I'm not sure who has the printer that could make a decent review. Perhaps David Saffir or if they send one to Uwe Steinmueller. In France certainly Thierry D. wrote an excellent review, in fact the best I've ever seen.
I don't have one, but have some prints with the reds, hence my assertion that they are on par with the others on the brightest of reds on down.
Hopefully the other media feed problems are worked out for third party media. If not at least you now have a Baryta option that will surely work as all the media optimised for the Z work extremely well.
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rdonson
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« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2008, 06:53:03 AM »
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Neil,

Any idea who's actually making the new HP Baryte Satin Art Paper???
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
Christopher
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« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2008, 08:52:04 AM »
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Neil,

Any idea who's actually making the new HP Baryte Satin Art Paper???
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223899\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


That was the best joke of all time. What were people bitching about on the old series ? Let me remind you. That the z3100 series can't produce any good reds on matt paper. HP never fixed that problem on the old series and with the presentation of this new version they show that they messed up and couldn't have fixed it with their first generation. I'm just happy that HP gave me my money back for the z3100. Perhaps their second try will be better, but for me HP died for printers.


To add something. Yes for 90% of all stuff the z3100 was good, but not if you needed good and high accurate color output on matt paper.

As Epson they could have done that in the beginning and upgrading the z3100 with a new ink but they didn't. Well I can understand it, why giving in to a mistake if you can make a whole new printer series out of it...

EDIT:
"ccording to HP, this new ink significantly widens the printable gamut, producing much richer color that is more true to life." ..... It does not widens anything... it just brings it up to the point there the z3100 should have been.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 08:55:51 AM by Christopher » Logged

rdonson
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« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2008, 09:32:48 AM »
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That was the best joke of all time. What were people bitching about on the old series ? Let me remind you. That the z3100 series can't produce any good reds on matt paper. HP never fixed that problem on the old series and with the presentation of this new version they show that they messed up and couldn't have fixed it with their first generation. I'm just happy that HP gave me my money back for the z3100. Perhaps their second try will be better, but for me HP died for printers.
To add something. Yes for 90% of all stuff the z3100 was good, but not if you needed good and high accurate color output on matt paper.

As Epson they could have done that in the beginning and upgrading the z3100 with a new ink but they didn't. Well I can understand it, why giving in to a mistake if you can make a whole new printer series out of it...

EDIT:
"ccording to HP, this new ink significantly widens the printable gamut, producing much richer color that is more true to life." ..... It does not widens anything... it just brings it up to the point there the z3100 should have been.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I'm not sure what your post has to do with who's making the HP Baryte Satin Art paper.

If you're looking for someone to say you were right about the Z3100 reds on matte papers..... well let's just go ahead and get that out of the way.  You and everyone else who didn't like the reds on matte paper were right.  Feel better now?
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
neil snape
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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2008, 11:08:31 AM »
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The Z3100 could print very nice reds on HP Smooth Fine Art. Since it is an optimised paper it is hard to find fault with it there. IF anything they could have done better at the color maps, as it is not necessarily just the ink tank color.

The problems are very saturated reds, and dark reds on less coated papers like PhotoRag 308 on which the Smooth is based upon.

The original long winded threads on the reds were brought upon us from someone trying to use some cheapo matte paper that wasn't performing as well as his old Epson.
True enough, no one said it wasn't true. Yet who cares? Yes those who print on el cheapo media, but then why by a printer to do that.


I thought you sold your Z on ebay saying you were moving or something?
If HP gave you your money back then it shows that they accept that you didn't find the reds acceptable. Do you think Epson would give back your money if you didn't find the black swapping acceptable?

I'm glad they upped the reds. It wasn't the first thing on my wish list they change though, but they seemed to make it a priority.
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Roscolo
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« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2008, 11:36:29 AM »
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That the z3100 series can't produce any good reds on matt paper.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223928\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

z3100 Reds look fine on HP Litho matte paper. For that matter, the reds have been no problem for me on any HP media, which is mostly what I print on, for my photos or for art repro for clients. Had a little issue with reds in 1 or 2 paintings I printed on Innova Coldpress. This was easily overcome by tweaking those areas in the paintings in Photoshop. For that matter, violet / purple hues are sometimes not right on. Again, a little tweak in Photoshop does the trick. This is a non-issue for me now as all but one of my art repro customers has switched to HP Litho from the Innova papers.

IF HP decides to make another red available for the z3100, I only ask that they do something to the packaging to make it absolutely obvious to retailers and customers which red is which. I'm dialed in and making perfect prints with the z3100 as is. YMMV
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 12:22:53 PM by Roscolo » Logged
MHMG
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« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2008, 01:11:13 PM »
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Quote from: Ernst Dinkla,Sep 23 2008, 02:23 PM

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Anyone familiar with the quality of the HP and Noritsu "dry" minilabs that use inkjet printing for the prints ? According to Wilhelm the print life of the HP prints is several times that of Fuji Crystal but I wonder what the gamut is compared with Crystal. Not a Photokina first but I wasn't aware of this development.


Ernst, you are probably very busy with Photokina right about now, but check out an article I just posted on my website when you get a chance:

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/news.html

It has some information on the Fujifilm DL 400 which I believe is the fuji branded version of the Noritsu drylab technology you are referencing. I was rather surprised at the coarse screening pattern, but the prints do look sharp at normal viewing distances, so I doubt many consumers will notice. The color gamut of the DL 400 prints is better than traditional RA-4 process compatible papers,but the unit I had access to at my local store was by no means dialed in properly. It printed too dark and with slight yellow color cast, so there is definitely room for improvement in terms of overall tone reproduction. It also seems to use the K ink for more GCR than desktop inkjet printers which has both pluses and minuses.  I would guess that the sRGB colorspace translation to device output on this equipment will be improved with some calibration updates as more units get installed and operational.
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Christopher
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« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2008, 01:16:19 PM »
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The Z3100 could print very nice reds on HP Smooth Fine Art. Since it is an optimised paper it is hard to find fault with it there. IF anything they could have done better at the color maps, as it is not necessarily just the ink tank color.

The problems are very saturated reds, and dark reds on less coated papers like PhotoRag 308 on which the Smooth is based upon.

The original long winded threads on the reds were brought upon us from someone trying to use some cheapo matte paper that wasn't performing as well as his old Epson.
True enough, no one said it wasn't true. Yet who cares? Yes those who print on el cheapo media, but then why by a printer to do that.
I thought you sold your Z on ebay saying you were moving or something?
If HP gave you your money back then it shows that they accept that you didn't find the reds acceptable. Do you think Epson would give back your money if you didn't find the black swapping acceptable?

I'm glad they upped the reds. It wasn't the first thing on my wish list they change though, but they seemed to make it a priority.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223979\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

No Epson would give me the money back, because it is stated that it is necessary to swap inks.

Hp on the ofter hand denied the problems at first. The reds on a z3100 look good as long they are not next to a good red matt print.

I first wanted to sell the printer on ebay, after the contact to the HP engeniering  group did not work out as intended. However while it was on ebay, I came to a good final solution with HP, which was quite ok.

I'm not saying the Z3100 had great parts and ideas, I was just very pissed how HP managed the whole matter.

I still have enough stuff around here, that shows clearly that the z3100 wasn't able to produce nice rich dark reds compared to an Epson or Canon. It didn't really matter which kind of matte paper one used. Especially if you had a lot of rolls of HM PhotoRag still sitting around.

Still that probably is the same as on clogs with Epson printers ^^, I never had a single one so I can't understand how people can be upset by it ;-). Still that doesn't mean the problem isn't there.
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