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Author Topic: New HP z3200 printer  (Read 25944 times)
Doombrain
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« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2008, 01:22:07 PM »
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I tried with the z3100 for a few months but gave up on it. Reds, feeding, slow, spectro letting light in on thick medias, five min start up, buggy software... the list goes on and on.

Even with the new red and front end spit and polish this engine has run its course. I suspect HP are just bridging the gap, trying to remain competitive in proofing/photography markets while they work on the new range and I know it'll have to be special to beat the new Epson Prox900 range.
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2008, 03:28:06 PM »
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Ernst;

HP use Vivera pigments in the SnapFish kiosk printers. So the paper used being similar to Advanced Glossy/Instant Dry come in with excellent lightfastness and waterproof to boot.
The use a doubled up print head that covers a very wide swath so the thing prints an A6 in seconds.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

But the Fuji (Noritsu ?) (Epson technology) had better saturation, better gloss, better contrast, better detail. Dye colors though but I guess with a Crystal equivalent light resistance. Could be good enough.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers[/url]
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Ernst Dinkla
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« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2008, 03:36:12 PM »
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Neil,

Any idea who's actually making the new HP Baryte Satin Art Paper???
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The grapevine said Sihl. But that doesn't mean Sihl has an equivalent paper around. I did like the one B&W print on display at the booth and made on it with a Z3200.

Hahnemühle's barytes are very nice too and the Innova Fibers are as nice (and a better selection of picture content on Innova's booth than on any of the booths I have been on).
Matter of taste of course.


Ernst Dinkla

Try: [a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers[/url]
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 03:36:40 PM by Ernst Dinkla » Logged
William Morse
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« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2008, 07:24:41 PM »
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I've had the 3200 for a few months, and I am very happy with it.

The biggest improvement is certainly with matte (and to a lesser extent, but still noticable with gloss) media and saturated reds, especially dark saturated reds. For most photography not a big issue, but welcome nonetheless. For painting reproductions, a big improvement.

I don't believe the reds are going to be improved in the z3100  

The other big improvement is the ability to adjust how much GE you use. I had printed on GFS with the 3100, bad gloss diff and bronzing. The 3200 and the 3100 with the new driver allows GE to be adjusted by a large degree, both less and more GE.  GFS prints beautifully!  

You can choose whether or not to cut the leading edge of gloss papers- Nice! But I can't figure out why you would want to; that's another story. You can choose to skip the alignment check when you load sheet paper, which for quick proofs is helpful. For final prints, I always check the alignment. Other improvements have been noted already.

The new HP Baryte paper is beautiful, and yes, Ernst, I have been very happy with the B/W as well as the color prints on it. So far, the nicest B/W paper I've printed on. Nice finish, and nice feel.

More comments later

Bill
Quote
The grapevine said Sihl. But that doesn't mean Sihl has an equivalent paper around. I did like the one B&W print on display at the booth and made on it with a Z3200.

Hahnemühle's barytes are very nice too and the Innova Fibers are as nice (and a better selection of picture content on Innova's booth than on any of the booths I have been on).
Matter of taste of course.
Ernst Dinkla

Try: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wide_Inkjet_Printers
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224073\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Colorwave
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« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2008, 07:32:02 PM »
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The new HP Baryte paper is beautiful, and yes, Ernst, I have been very happy with the B/W as well as the color prints on it. So far, the nicest B/W paper I've printed on. Nice finish, and nice feel.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224156\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Bill-
Could you elaborate a bit more on the finish and weight of this paper.  How does the sheen and texture compare to the other papers in this class?  Do you see any buckling of the surface, with it being under 300gsm in weight?
Thanks,
Ron H.
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Panascape
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« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2008, 11:56:16 AM »
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I would bet it has an almost imperceptible gamut improvement, and everything else is unchanged.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=223495\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sorry only replying to these threads now but have  been very busy printing and testing.

The 3200 is actually a big leap forward even though it looks very much like the 3100. There are many subtle design changes that solve issues with the 3100 but the biggest improvement is in the colour rendition which is really awesome.

The approach I took to testing the 3200 was really to quantify the improvements in colour rendition over the z3100 which involved lots of comparative tests starting from raw uncalibrated colour to the results when both machines were profiled over a variety of media. While I was, as many here will know, very unhappy with the colour from the 3100, I am extremely happy with the colour from the 3200 and have finally retired my trusty Epson 4000 as it is no longer a match for the 3200.

Robert.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2008, 12:01:44 PM by Panascape » Logged
rdonson
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« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2008, 12:49:04 PM »
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Hi Robert,

I hope you have time to detail the research and testing you've done.  I'm very interested in understanding the differences between the 3100 and 3200.  

I've been pleased with the results from my 3100 w/APS but I'm certain I'm not as discerning as you are with regards to color fidelity.
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[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'][span style='font-family:Arial'][span style='font-family:Geneva'][span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Regards,
Ron[/span][/span][/span][/span]
Panascape
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« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2008, 04:56:45 PM »
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Hi Robert,

I hope you have time to detail the research and testing you've done.  I'm very interested in understanding the differences between the 3100 and 3200. 

I've been pleased with the results from my 3100 w/APS but I'm certain I'm not as discerning as you are with regards to color fidelity.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224684\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Ron

I will post some of the results once they are all tabled but at the moment I am still compiling everything and putting the results together as it took a lot longer to test than I hoped it would and my testing was not completed prior to the Z3200 launch.

What I can tell you is that on both gloss and matt media a 24 patch X-rite colour checker chart, with a profile created with HP colour centre, compared with the chart supplied by X-rite shows no significant difference between them and it is not easy at a glance to tell which is which.

The Z3100 performs ok in this test on gloss media but the difference between the charts especially in the reds is noticeable and on matt media the difference is obvious.

HP’s colour team has really learned from the Z3100 and from our feedback and has done a sterling job with the Z3200.

Robert
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circuit
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« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2008, 09:59:50 PM »
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Quote from: William Morse
I've had the 3200 for a few months, and I am very happy with it.

The biggest improvement is certainly with matte (and to a lesser extent, but still noticable with gloss) media and saturated reds, especially dark saturated reds. For most photography not a big issue, but welcome nonetheless. For painting reproductions, a big improvement.

...

Bill

Hi Bill,
I read your post with interest -- especially since you have had your Z3200 for a few months now. I am wondering if you are printing on gloss or satin photobase media and whether you are noticing any improvement with the notorious star-wheel track marks?  I have been having issues with this and am looking for a solution. HP is suggesting that the Z3200 addresses  / improves these marking issues. {see my initial post: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=28486 }

(I'd love to hear from you or anyone else who has successfully printed on gloss media.)
Cheers,
Claire (Toronto)
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marty m
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« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2008, 10:13:40 PM »
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As a result of comment posted by Neil, I discovered that some individuals have received their HP Z3200 printers at no charge.  Either for free; on a long-term if not permanent "loan"; or a temporary arrangement.

William Morse, to his credit, voluntarily disclosed in a different thread that he received the Z3200 on a free loan from HP, and I commend him for doing so.

Anyone else who is singing the virtues of the Z3200, and did not purchase the printer with their own hard-earned cash, should do the same.  

I suspect that many who have already had the Z3200 for an extended period of time also received it for free or as part of an extended loan from HP.  For how else could they have the printer so far in advance of anyone else, as it is only now going on sale?

Disclose your own arrangements with HP.  Let the readers of the forum decide whether that influenced your opinion or not.

(The only exception, either for HP or any other manufacturer, would be someone who is already very well known for an established commercial relationship with the manufacturer in question and where such a relationship has already been disclosed and is generally known.)

At the outset, let me note that a person who receives free equipment might have sincere and positive comments.  

But would such an individual, who benefits from loans of very expensive equipment, post sharply critical comments if that was their actual and honest perspective?  Or would they fear that it might be the last free printer you'll ever see, because no one bites the hand that feeds them?  Isn't it more likely that such a person would only share highly critical comments privately with HP, and we would never benefit from or hear such comments in a public forum?  

If you are a world famous reviewer, with your own established web site or magazine, you'll likely receive the equipment even if you do on occasion publish sharply critical reviews.  The manufacturers can't ignore you, however upset they might be with you.

But a less important and not publicly known individual could get cut off from free merchandise in a nanosecond after posting a sharply critical review.  It is silly and just plain naive to try to tell us that is not the case.  Such a person is far more likely to only share an extremely critical review on a private basis with HP and never post it here.  Again, that person won't bite the hand that feeds them.  

And that would result in a skewed set of publicly posted positive reviews in this or any other forum.  Which is why, for HP, this is a great way to ensure positive comments in reviews and on this forum.   Providing merchandise for free -- either permanently or on a semi-permanent "loan" -- will  do wonders with regards to guaranteeing rave reviews.  (And I'm sure that HP is not alone, among manufacturers, in doing this.)  This is also why any consumer with a half a brain should treat published reviews, that are almost entirely positive, with extreme skepticism.  The same set of issues apply.  Either the reviewer gets free equipment, or the magazine only publishes positive reviews so that they continue to get paid advertising from the manufacturer.  That is, after all, why some of the leading consumer magazines state, right up front, that they pay for everything; they never accept anything for free; and receive no advertising from the manufacturers that they review.  That is why some web sites that review equipment have no advertising from those manufacturers, and honestly disclose how they receive equipment.

So let's have some honest disclosures, and then the readers of the forum can reach their own conclusions.   I am less likely to trust the views of someone who is praising a piece of merchandise, and has not openly disclosed such an arrangement.  

Finally, before anyone reacts with indignation at the suggestion that you have been influenced by a free loan, I would note that your indignation would be better received if you had disclosed the fact of the the loan of permanent "loan" of the printer on your own, and done so up front, without any prompting.  

If you failed to do that, then you are in no position to protest your indignation or innocence.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2008, 12:49:45 AM by marty m » Logged
kaelaria
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« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2008, 11:18:38 PM »
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I don't fully trust ANY compensated remarks.  It's simply advertising, stated in different ways.

I'm too biased after working with media groups and advertising for various companies.  Every little bit counts.
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neil snape
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« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2008, 12:47:33 AM »
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The more you test a device the more time you have to get to know it. If the time is spent in discovery , the findings should speak for themselves regardless of an obvious bias whatever brand they may be.
There is no such thing as an unbiased report in our sector.
What you need to do is regroup all the criticism collectively, put a fudge factor in there, and make your own assumption. The better reports have facts, figures, numbers and examples. The few power users that have all three brands and know them well are limited to a handful of people in the world. Reports by them are very valuable indeed. When Michael Reichmann says if you print on all three late LFP pigment printers viewed at a normal viewing distance you won't discern a difference.

That says it all.

All the rest is what creates biases, especially user experiences usually based on their current machine. The grass is always greener on the other side.....

The policies of who gets what and for what in exchange is probably similar in all three brands. There is no automatic offering of a printer at HP, nor Epson > all depends on the amount of testing done, the feedback, the value of all of that, then decided on a one by one basis. When I say that printers are given away, I was not referring to anyone posting here. This is also brand agnostic as I see that happening for all three brands. It does bother me, as the users who post and help others are what users here look forward to, yet some people are given printers that they have never done a thing for, nor post to help others. Yet in the world today there is much worse, more important problems to worry about.

Vivre la difference!

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Charles Gast
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« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2008, 07:53:20 AM »
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they are listing the 3200 at $3395 on their website
http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFra...p;ci_sku=Q6718A
when I went to the trade-in/up program its a dead end.  I am certainly not up for spending thousands for the "one that works" the way I expected my first printer I spent thousands on after less than two years.  Its looking more and more like ebay+epson to solution.
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William Morse
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« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2008, 02:19:08 PM »
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Hi Marty-

Nice "discovery"! As the printers were not even announced until less than a month ago, clearly anyone who has one has been testing it! Sheesh!  I have to say, I resent your attitude. I would OTOH agree that anyone who recieves a free printer should definately disclose that, as it gives us more info.

OTOH, any comments (from anyone!) should be taken with a grain of salt. I've certainly seen enough of "what I just bought is best" to know that all comments from users can be biased (and no, absolutely, not, I've never, ever been guilty of that myself ;^)  LOL

Marty, you've clearly got a big axe of your own to grind; it would be helpful if instead of running other members comments down, you clearly state your own opinion of the various options available to us. Then we can put that in the mix with everyone elses, and decide who we as individuals trust the most.

Bill

PS- all you have to do is look for my posts re" z3100 and HP's website.to know that I have been sharply critical of HP, although generally happy with my z3100. In fact, to give credit where credit is due, it was partly because of those criticisms that I was invited to beta test the z3200.

PPS- And don't get me started on HP's website!!!


Quote from: marty m
As a result of comment posted by Neil, I discovered that some individuals have received their HP Z3200 printers at no charge.  Either for free; on a long-term if not permanent "loan"; or a temporary arrangement.

William Morse, to his credit, voluntarily disclosed in a different thread that he received the Z3200 on a free loan from HP, and I commend him for doing so.

Anyone else who is singing the virtues of the Z3200, and did not purchase the printer with their own hard-earned cash, should do the same.  

I suspect that many who have already had the Z3200 for an extended period of time also received it for free or as part of an extended loan from HP.  For how else could they have the printer so far in advance of anyone else, as it is only now going on sale?

Disclose your own arrangements with HP.  Let the readers of the forum decide whether that influenced your opinion or not.

(The only exception, either for HP or any other manufacturer, would be someone who is already very well known for an established commercial relationship with the manufacturer in question and where such a relationship has already been disclosed and is generally known.)

At the outset, let me note that a person who receives free equipment might have sincere and positive comments.  

But would such an individual, who benefits from loans of very expensive equipment, post sharply critical comments if that was their actual and honest perspective?  Or would they fear that it might be the last free printer you'll ever see, because no one bites the hand that feeds them?  Isn't it more likely that such a person would only share highly critical comments privately with HP, and we would never benefit from or hear such comments in a public forum?  

If you are a world famous reviewer, with your own established web site or magazine, you'll likely receive the equipment even if you do on occasion publish sharply critical reviews.  The manufacturers can't ignore you, however upset they might be with you.

But a less important and not publicly known individual could get cut off from free merchandise in a nanosecond after posting a sharply critical review.  It is silly and just plain naive to try to tell us that is not the case.  Such a person is far more likely to only share an extremely critical review on a private basis with HP and never post it here.  Again, that person won't bite the hand that feeds them.  

And that would result in a skewed set of publicly posted positive reviews in this or any other forum.  Which is why, for HP, this is a great way to ensure positive comments in reviews and on this forum.   Providing merchandise for free -- either permanently or on a semi-permanent "loan" -- will  do wonders with regards to guaranteeing rave reviews.  (And I'm sure that HP is not alone, among manufacturers, in doing this.)  This is also why any consumer with a half a brain should treat published reviews, that are almost entirely positive, with extreme skepticism.  The same set of issues apply.  Either the reviewer gets free equipment, or the magazine only publishes positive reviews so that they continue to get paid advertising from the manufacturer.  That is, after all, why some of the leading consumer magazines state, right up front, that they pay for everything; they never accept anything for free; and receive no advertising from the manufacturers that they review.  That is why some web sites that review equipment have no advertising from those manufacturers, and honestly disclose how they receive equipment.

So let's have some honest disclosures, and then the readers of the forum can reach their own conclusions.   I am less likely to trust the views of someone who is praising a piece of merchandise, and has not openly disclosed such an arrangement.  

Finally, before anyone reacts with indignation at the suggestion that you have been influenced by a free loan, I would note that your indignation would be better received if you had disclosed the fact of the the loan of permanent "loan" of the printer on your own, and done so up front, without any prompting.  

If you failed to do that, then you are in no position to protest your indignation or innocence.
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« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2008, 02:29:59 PM »
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Quote from: William Morse
PS- all you have to do is look for my posts re" z3100 and HP's website.to know that I have been sharply critical of HP, although generally happy with my z3100. In fact, to give credit where credit is due, it was partly because of those criticisms that I was invited to beta test the z3200.

PPS- And don't get me started on HP's website!!!

Please link to anywhere you are 'sharply critical of HP' re the 3100?  All I remember is a little question from you to me (who truly WAS critical with LOTS of info, part numbers, updates, pictures, inside info, etc. - and no beta invite LOL) in this thread: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....1426&st=120

All your other posts about it revolve around downloading software - at least that I see.

What exactly are you suggesting regarding your HP provided beta test time and your posts about the 3100?  All I see is someone coming to make a defending statement that was given a printer, that has not said one bad thing about the previous model, that I can find anyway.
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William Morse
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« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2008, 02:45:34 PM »
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Yes, we had an argument, when you were insulting and insensitive towards an older gentleman who was having trouble with his printer.  I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. You are free to discount or disregard my posts. If you don't trust me, fine. I won't lose sleep over it.

I have tried to relate my experiences with both the z3100 and z3200 as accurately as I can.

Bill


Quote from: kaelaria
Please link to anywhere you are 'sharply critical of HP' re the 3100?  All I remember is a little question from you to me (who truly WAS critical with LOTS of info, part numbers, updates, pictures, inside info, etc. - and no beta invite LOL) in this thread: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....1426&st=120

All your other posts about it revolve around downloading software - at least that I see.

What exactly are you suggesting regarding your HP provided beta test time and your posts about the 3100?  All I see is someone coming to make a defending statement that was given a printer, that has not said one bad thing about the previous model, that I can find anyway.
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« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2008, 02:54:24 PM »
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Quote from: circuit
Hi Bill,
I read your post with interest -- especially since you have had your Z3200 for a few months now. I am wondering if you are printing on gloss or satin photobase media and whether you are noticing any improvement with the notorious star-wheel track marks?  I have been having issues with this and am looking for a solution. HP is suggesting that the Z3200 addresses  / improves these marking issues. {see my initial post: http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=28486 }

(I'd love to hear from you or anyone else who has successfully printed on gloss media.)
Cheers,
Claire (Toronto)

Hi Bill -- Not sure if you saw my post above and have any insight you are willing to share! Much appreciated.
Claire
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kaelaria
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« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2008, 02:55:34 PM »
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You didn't even look at the thread I just linked - nothing to do with the one you are talking about.

YOU are the one making the proclamation of 'I have been sharply critical of HP'.  I am simply calling BS on it, as you have not been.  I'm saying - show everyone the proof to back your claim - if you can.

Taking the route of ' If you don't trust me, fine. I won't lose sleep over it.' simply proves my point that you are simply an advertisement for HP since they gave you a printer.


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« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2008, 03:21:22 PM »
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Hi Claire-

yes, I have been printing on gloss media with both the z3100 and z3200. Media have included Ilford GFS. Innova fibagloss (several varieties), Hp papers, and others.

With the 3100, some papers were good, others not so. the GFS showed alot of bronzing. The harmon Gloss FB AL showed bronzing, and some surface marks. with the 3200, I have printed on GFS, the new HP baryte paper, and the Innovas. I have seen no marks on any of these papers, although if you are concerned, I would definately try a test on your papers before buying.

In addition to the marks, bronzing was still a problem on many papers with the 3100. The biggest change, for me, after the improved reds, of the 3200 was the ability to vary the amount of GE on the gloss papers. I found that after upping the GE, I was able to print well without bronzing on all of the papers that failed that test on the z3100.

I'm glad they took back the 3100. Did they say how much more, if any, you would have to pay for the 3200?

Hope this helps,

Bill

Quote from: circuit
Hi Bill -- Not sure if you saw my post above and have any insight you are willing to share! Much appreciated.
Claire
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« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2008, 03:55:01 PM »
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Quote from: William Morse
In addition to the marks, bronzing was still a problem on many papers with the 3100.

Hi Bill,

Can you please specify the papers you're talking about? I've been using Epson Premium Luster, Epson Semi Gloss, Epson Gloss and Hahnemuehle Fine Art Baryta with my Z3100ps GP and I haven't seen any bronzing...

Best regards
George
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