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Author Topic: It's beautiful.  (Read 20819 times)
eronald
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« on: September 24, 2008, 04:45:42 PM »
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I just got a box with one of these - a bunch of us on the Colorsync list did a group buy via Chromix.

http://gizmodo.com/5014879/hp-dreamcolor-l...-billion-colors

Mind blowing. Or eye-blowing. Colors as they cannot be seen on paper. The effect is immersive - as if you were there.

Gamut is considerably greater than AdobeRGB !
As it is an IPS panel the viewing angle is good, but  suspect it won't be appropriate for video.

Edmund
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 04:46:49 PM by eronald » Logged
Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2008, 04:49:03 PM »
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Resolution? Contrast ratio? Looks very interesting.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2008, 04:56:37 PM »
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someone please give me a display that shows the colors that CAN be seen by paper....and are seen exactly the way they are seen by paper.....

unless you are only working for your images to shown on screens this does not make much sense to me....and if you are working to only show your stuff on the screen...good luck, everybody else has a crappy uncalibrated display that will butcher anything you throw at it....

i use to work in adobe prophotoRGB....until i found out that some of the best retouchers work in Colormatch RGB....closer to paper and still shows much more then any magazine print (that goes for ads as well....)
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eronald
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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2008, 05:21:04 PM »
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I'm a color geek - so I need to have a reference monitor. Now that I've seen this thing I know one thing for certain - within a few years, video will have gone wide-gamut.  Anything shown on a screen will be wide gamut. Paper won't go away - but screen imagery is going to be really, really colorful.

The other wierd thing about this monitor is that it seems to be calibrated out of the box somehow, and HP claim it will stay calibrated within its lifetime with very small variations - this opens the door to having calibrated displays everywhere. Finally.

BTW, if you want a totally foolproof color workflow *today*, and you're not a color geek, just set everything to sRGB. And use an sRGB monitor. Print and web clients will love you for it. Anyone needing a larger space is a either geek or a snob.

Edmund


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someone please give me a display that shows the colors that CAN be seen by paper....and are seen exactly the way they are seen by paper.....

unless you are only working for your images to shown on screens this does not make much sense to me....and if you are working to only show your stuff on the screen...good luck, everybody else has a crappy uncalibrated display that will butcher anything you throw at it....

i use to work in adobe prophotoRGB....until i found out that some of the best retouchers work in Colormatch RGB....closer to paper and still shows much more then any magazine print (that goes for ads as well....)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224118\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
« Last Edit: September 24, 2008, 05:21:46 PM by eronald » Logged
billthecat
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« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2008, 11:28:39 PM »
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That monitor looks neat. Reading the reviews I feel that it would have benefit in even sRGB? Is that the case? One review showed that B&W photos looked much better with this monitor.

I still have my CRT and I've been thinking of getting a LCD in the future, this one looks pretty nice. NEC has an LED monitor but it is not 1920x1200.

Bill
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revaaron
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2008, 09:01:48 AM »
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I have a 2407wfp dell that I need to get rid of.
I've only had it for a year and I have never been able to get it to look good enough to edit photos on. $3.5K is a bit more than I wanted to spend on a replaement.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2008, 09:29:43 AM »
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When Karl Lang (who has one) has a report, I'll be sold. In the meantime, expect for those color geeks getting special pricing, and due to the fact this display was produced for film work (the Dream in DreamColor is due to the alliance with Dream Works), I think we photographers should sit on the sidelines and wait for better data/reviews from an independent source.

Karl does tell me it looks great. And the ability to actually switch from sRGB to the wide gamut (a true switch by altering the chromaticity) works well. But he needs to do actual lab measurements using equipment few if any of the so called color geeks here have (think $20K+ spectroradiometer and custom software), I'd sit back and wait for better data.

I'm tempted to also get a unit to check out. A bit too busy to spend time there (as is Karl, we're both working on a huge project). Hopefully we can get a break after October and he can actually get some useful data, as he did from the NEC's reported last year at PPE.
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2008, 09:32:34 AM »
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BTW, if you want a totally foolproof color workflow *today*, and you're not a color geek, just set everything to sRGB. And use an sRGB monitor.

An sRGB monitor? You mean a circa 1994 CRT with P22 phosphors?

You might want to clarify that just a bit after looking at the definition upon which sRGB was built. There isn't an LCD that follows it (down to the TRC).
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2008, 09:44:24 AM »
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someone please give me a display that shows the colors that CAN be seen by paper....and are seen exactly the way they are seen by paper.....

Photoshop's soft proof is supposed to do this (sort of, kind of) using the "Make my image look like crap" button (Simulate Paper/ink). Schewe covers this well in the tutorials you can get here.

The big issue is handling dynamic range which is vastly different on paper versus the display. But an emissive display and a reflective print will never match exactly just as a chrome and anything you print (despite the gamut of an ink set) will never match exactly. We hope to get as high into the 90% range as the law of physics allow.

But your point is well taken in terms of getting as close a match as possible. There are some things that hopefully future technology will allow Photoshop (or maybe LR) to do better.

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i use to work in adobe prophotoRGB....until i found out that some of the best retouchers work in Colormatch RGB....closer to paper and still shows much more then any magazine print (that goes for ads as well....)

That's a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water. First of all, the main advantage of ColorMatch RGB is its tone response curve of 1.8 for output to press conditions (this TRC was set this way to account for dot gain). Its a space designed many years ago and for prepress work. That's probably why so many of these retouchers are using it (or its just out of old habit). But the gamut is pretty small by todays standards, not much bigger than sRGB. If all your work goes to press, OK. But enter a K3, let alone HDR ink set, you're tossing a lot of printable colors.

These newer wide gamut displays are useful to some degree in that they now allow you to view colors broader than sRGB you may have in your wider gamut working space that you can print. The dynamic range issues, the ability for better soft proofing simulations etc are all different issues and a wider gamut display isn't necessarily worse for you in terms of getting a good/better screen to print match.

Your initial reaction to "Colors as they cannot be seen on paper" however is a good one. I'm not sure what that is supposed to imply that's useful in the context of photography for anything other than viewing images on this particular display.
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Andrew Rodney
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eronald
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« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2008, 02:07:44 PM »
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These newer wide gamut displays are useful to some degree in that they now allow you to view colors broader than sRGB you may have in your wider gamut working space that you can print. The dynamic range issues, the ability for better soft proofing simulations etc are all different issues and a wider gamut display isn't necessarily worse for you in terms of getting a good/better screen to print match.

Your initial reaction to "Colors as they cannot be seen on paper" however is a good one. I'm not sure what that is supposed to imply that's useful in the context of photography for anything other than viewing images on this particular display.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224283\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

And what about the sheer joy of looking at a sunset image on-screen, without reference to paper ?

Screen display of images is slowly going to catch up with paper prints, and those screens can reproduce images that cannot be rendered to paper.

Edmund
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2008, 02:11:08 PM »
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I went to the HP stand today and to my surprise there is no monitor on the photokina.
According to HP it was not suited for the target audience of photokina Huh

The did have a wonderful machine to make books.........
Maybe I will now buy that instead  
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eronald
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2008, 02:16:39 PM »
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I went to the HP stand today and to my surprise there is no monitor on the photokina.
According to HP it was not suited for the target audience of photokina Huh

The did have a wonderful machine to make books.........
Maybe I will now buy that instead 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224332\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Frank,

It wasn't there. But they had Robin Myers profiling solution.
 
Are you going to be around tomorrow ? I would like to say hello

Edmund
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2008, 02:23:58 PM »
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Tomorrow is my last day.
I will be at the leaf booth on several time slots 100% sure is 14:30 for the demo/fashion shoot, but because there is a new model I will be there on more slots probarbly to test.

If someone from LL is there, just get in touch with me or be at the leaf booth between 14:00-14:30.
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digitaldog
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2008, 02:24:02 PM »
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And what about the sheer joy of looking at a sunset image on-screen, without reference to paper ?

Screen display of images is slowly going to catch up with paper prints, and those screens can reproduce images that cannot be rendered to paper.

Its not going to catch up unless you assume they are even remotely the same which they are not. Totally difference reference media. Just like wine and soup, both liquids and both edible let alone wine and urine, both liquids are vastly different. You're now comparing wine and wood.

There are images that can be rendered to paper that can't nor never will render on an emissive output device. How can they "catch up"?
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Andrew Rodney
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2008, 02:27:47 PM »
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I went to the HP stand today and to my surprise there is no monitor on the photokina.
According to HP it was not suited for the target audience of photokina Huh

That may be entirely possible. As I mentioned, the unit wasn't designed for the photo space but rather the film space. That isn't to say it might not be good, even ideal for photographers or that modifications to the unit might make it ideal for the photo space.

We have a group of color geeks that understandably need to see what this new technology is all about. But its a stretch to say its an ideal (or even adequate) device for image editing. For one, my understanding is, its minimum contrast ratio is 1000:1. That's going to make soft proofing more difficult for the type of work we rely on.
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Andrew Rodney
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Frank Doorhof
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« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2008, 02:30:10 PM »
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I have to really dive into the material to know how to answer
But I know my complete workflow is prophoto RGB and I know I'm missing out on my aRGB monitor, but it's MUCH better than my previous sRGB monitor.

So I could be totally wrong (again I did not read up to it).
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billthecat
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« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2008, 04:27:20 PM »
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This monitor looks very nice. I checked out a few reviews but I don't see any really extensive ones. I've held on to my CRT for a long time waiting to get a flat panel and this seems like it is want I'm looking for.

It is selling for about $2,500 in the USA.

What would a good graphics card be to go along with this monitor for Windows?

Thx,
Bill
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eronald
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« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2008, 04:51:25 PM »
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This monitor looks very nice. I checked out a few reviews but I don't see any really extensive ones. I've held on to my CRT for a long time waiting to get a flat panel and this seems like it is want I'm looking for.

It is selling for about $2,500 in the USA.

What would a good graphics card be to go along with this monitor for Windows?

Thx,
Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224385\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's a question you should ask in the Photoshop forum. Graphic acceleration is now a PS feature.

Edmund
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dustblue
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« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2008, 02:09:28 AM »
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check out the samsung xl24 and xl30, they are also LED backlit, but not IPS panels, they use s-pva.
BTW Eizo uses samsung's s-pva panel in many of their products, including the CG241W.

Quote
I just got a box with one of these - a bunch of us on the Colorsync list did a group buy via Chromix.

http://gizmodo.com/5014879/hp-dreamcolor-l...-billion-colors

Mind blowing. Or eye-blowing. Colors as they cannot be seen on paper. The effect is immersive - as if you were there.

Gamut is considerably greater than AdobeRGB !
As it is an IPS panel the viewing angle is good, but  suspect it won't be appropriate for video.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224107\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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jerryrock
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« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2009, 01:02:58 AM »
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HP is selling the DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for $1999. (US) until January 31, 2009.
This makes it competitive with the other RGB LED monitors currently on the market.

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Gerald J Skrocki
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