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Author Topic: It's beautiful.  (Read 20761 times)
eronald
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« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2009, 06:55:32 AM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
HP is selling the DreamColor LP2480zx monitor for $1999. (US) until January 31, 2009.
This makes it competitive with the other RGB LED monitors currently on the market.

As a color management consultant, I have decided that I am NOT recommending the  LP2480zx monitor for color-critical work because of recurring issues with color non-uniformity across the panel.
Chromix have told me they also have decided not to recommend it for color critical work.
Because of its spectacular gamut, this monitor is well fitted for demos and showing images to clients; it is adequate for retouching, but not for really fine color work.

Edmund
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 06:57:53 AM by eronald » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2009, 12:03:38 PM »
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Quote from: eronald
As a color management consultant, I have decided that I am NOT recommending the  LP2480zx monitor for color-critical work because of recurring issues with color non-uniformity across the panel.
Chromix have told me they also have decided not to recommend it for color critical work.
Because of its spectacular gamut, this monitor is well fitted for demos and showing images to clients; it is adequate for retouching, but not for really fine color work.

Edmund


That's interesting to hear.  What display do you recommend instead?
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eronald
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« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2009, 01:35:32 PM »
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Quote from: EricWHiss
That's interesting to hear.  What display do you recommend instead?

If your aim is pure color management for photo or graphics to print preview, I'd recommend staying with a standard (non-wide gamut) monitor with an IPS panel. Avoid PVA panels because of viewing angle (viewer location) issues  and RGB led backlighting (uniformity issues) for the time being.

If you just want to demo or you want to show films you will benefit from moving to one of these modern technologies.

Edmund
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 01:35:53 PM by eronald » Logged

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« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2009, 03:47:13 PM »
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Wow, what a coincidence! I was just about to ask your opinion on this display now that it's been in use for a couple of months.

Btw, have you (or any other Dreamcolor user) noticed any other problems with the display? Any problems with profiling it? How does it render skin tones or some other smaller gamut stuff?


Thanks for sharing your thoughts and happy new year.
 
J



Quote from: eronald
As a color management consultant, I have decided that I am NOT recommending the  LP2480zx monitor for color-critical work because of recurring issues with color non-uniformity across the panel.
Chromix have told me they also have decided not to recommend it for color critical work.
Because of its spectacular gamut, this monitor is well fitted for demos and showing images to clients; it is adequate for retouching, but not for really fine color work.

Edmund
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jerryrock
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« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2009, 08:43:16 PM »
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Quote from: eronald
As a color management consultant, I have decided that I am NOT recommending the  LP2480zx monitor for color-critical work because of recurring issues with color non-uniformity across the panel.
Chromix have told me they also have decided not to recommend it for color critical work.
Because of its spectacular gamut, this monitor is well fitted for demos and showing images to clients; it is adequate for retouching, but not for really fine color work.

Edmund

I have read your findings as well as others on the Apple Colorsync Users List.  I decided to purchase the LP2480zx despite the negative recommendation.  I also ordered the HP Advanced Profiling Solution with specially filtered Xrite puck for calibrating the monitor's LUT.  I think this is key to getting accurate performance from this monitor.

Your observation of uneven color uniformity is noted but may have been an issue with the panel you were given to test.  Other testers either did not experience the issue or had faulty units replaced alleviating the problem. I will formulate my own opinion when the LP2480zx becomes a part of my daily workflow.

Jerry
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 08:51:08 PM by jerryrock » Logged

Gerald J Skrocki
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« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2009, 12:51:07 AM »
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My 50" Panasonic Plasma Display can apparently display 134 billion different colors, has a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1, a maximum contrast ratio of 1,000,000:1 and a screen resolution of 1920x1080 pixels.  SRGB images displayed through the set's built-in SD card slot look accurate but with a noticeable enhancement of vibrance and luminosity which produces an effect I can only describe as superb. Shadow detail is also superb.

However, the display doesn't seem to lend itself to calibration with the usual colorimeters. But why should it? There's no Plasma option in the calibration software.
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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2009, 07:56:03 AM »
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Quote from: Ray
My 50" Panasonic Plasma Display can apparently display 134 billion different colors, has a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1, a maximum contrast ratio of 1,000,000:1 and a screen resolution of 1920x1080 pixels.  SRGB images displayed through the set's built-in SD card slot look accurate but with a noticeable enhancement of vibrance and luminosity which produces an effect I can only describe as superb. Shadow detail is also superb.

However, the display doesn't seem to lend itself to calibration with the usual colorimeters. But why should it? There's no Plasma option in the calibration software.

The HP Dreamcolor display was designed with built in color space standards including Adobe RGB and sRGB as well as the ability to customize your own.  This is beneficial for Graphic Designers, Photographers and Cinematographers who must accurately reproduce images according to a set standard for publication or further production.

Your plasma display may be capable of displaying billions of colors, but is limited by the color signals it receives. You may like how it interprets sRGB colorspace which look vibrant on the display, but it is far from accurate and not a substitute for a color critical monitor.

The plasma display does not have a built in LUT that can be calibrated with a colorimeter designed for computers. Monitor profiling programs designed for computers alter the LUT of the computer's video card to comply with a set standard by reading display output with a colorimeter.

Jerry


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« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2009, 08:56:10 AM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
Your plasma display may be capable of displaying billions of colors, but is limited by the color signals it receives. You may like how it interprets sRGB colorspace which look vibrant on the display, but it is far from accurate and not a substitute for a color critical monitor.

The plasma display does not have a built in LUT that can be calibrated with a colorimeter designed for computers. Monitor profiling programs designed for computers alter the LUT of the computer's video card to comply with a set standard by reading display output with a colorimeter.

Most monitors are not accurate before calibration. At least I've never owned one which is. My plasma display has a number of HDMI inputs as well as a 15 pin VGA input. Connected to my laptop through its HDMI output, I get the full resolution of 1920x1080 and can use the screen as a computer monitor. However, all my X-rite colorimeters and software (Coloreyes and GM Eye-1) address only the two types of displays, LCD and CRT.

I've never come across an LCD display which boasts a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1 and a dynamic CR of 1 million to 1, not to mention the 134 billion colors.

By the way, I wouldn't say that the sRGB rendition, directly from the set's SD card slot, is far from accurate. I'd describe it as similar to the effect one gets after softproofing an image in Photoshop to overcome the dullness of 'paper white', then unticking 'proof colors' and seeing the image really pop.
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« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2009, 09:42:09 AM »
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Quote from: Ray
Most monitors are not accurate before calibration. At least I've never owned one which is. My plasma display has a number of HDMI inputs as well as a 15 pin VGA input. Connected to my laptop through its HDMI output, I get the full resolution of 1920x1080 and can use the screen as a computer monitor. However, all my X-rite colorimeters and software (Coloreyes and GM Eye-1) address only the two types of displays, LCD and CRT.

I've never come across an LCD display which boasts a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1 and a dynamic CR of 1 million to 1, not to mention the 134 billion colors.

By the way, I wouldn't say that the sRGB rendition, directly from the set's SD card slot, is far from accurate. I'd describe it as similar to the effect one gets after softproofing an image in Photoshop to overcome the dullness of 'paper white', then unticking 'proof colors' and seeing the image really pop.

Ray,
I have a Samsung PN50A650 50" plasma display that has the same features as your Panasonic but would not use it for color critical work because of the reasons listed in my previous post.
Even if you were able to use your X-Rite colorimeter to profile the display through your computer, it would only be valid when using your TV as a computer monitor as the calibration information is stored and used by the computer, not the TV.

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF...67-3648397.html

Jerry
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 09:44:48 AM by jerryrock » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2009, 11:02:54 AM »
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Quote from: Ray
I've never come across an LCD display which boasts a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1 and a dynamic CR of 1 million to 1, not to mention the 134 billion colors.
I surprised that a professional sceptic like yourself actually believes the marketing numbers used to flog such items.  
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« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2009, 05:00:50 PM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
Even if you were able to use your X-Rite colorimeter to profile the display through your computer, it would only be valid when using your TV as a computer monitor as the calibration information is stored and used by the computer, not the TV.

Jerry

Yes, of course. Understood! However, my plasma display has a whole range of contrast, brightness and color settings which are specific to each input. If I were to use the display for color critical work, as a computer monitor, whatever adjustments I were to make to the set's contrast and brightness before calibration, would not affect the other inputs. The set would continue to function as a TV for all TV broadcasts, or DVD movies from a stand-alone DVD player, which is fine.

Normal broadcast material varies in image quality and color accuracy much more (very much more) than any of my images processed on a calibrated monitor. I don't need the set claibrated for TV viewing. There are so many global adjustments which can take care of source material quality variation, such as 'cinema mode', color temperature warm or cool etc etc.

The intriguing aspect of this is the amazing specs of this 11th generation Panasonic plasma display.
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Ray
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« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2009, 05:11:10 PM »
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Quote from: jjj
I surprised that a professional sceptic like yourself actually believes the marketing numbers used to flog such items.

I don't need to be believe in the precision of the numbers. The relevant issue here is, 'Is there any reason for manufacturers of Plasma displays to exaggerate the numbers to a greater extent than the manufacturers of LCD displays?' There would be reason for thinking that the reverse might be true. Plasma displays have always had a reputation for producing a better quality image than LCD technology. It would therefore be reasonable to suppose that the manufacturers of LCD displays, in order to compete in the market place, might be given to greater exaggeration of the spec numbers.

Whether this is true or not, I don't know. I'm generally guided by what is reasonable, likely and sensible.
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« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2009, 08:08:37 PM »
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Quote from: Ray
Yes, of course. Understood! However, my plasma display has a whole range of contrast, brightness and color settings which are specific to each input. If I were to use the display for color critical work, as a computer monitor, whatever adjustments I were to make to the set's contrast and brightness before calibration, would not affect the other inputs. The set would continue to function as a TV for all TV broadcasts, or DVD movies from a stand-alone DVD player, which is fine.

Normal broadcast material varies in image quality and color accuracy much more (very much more) than any of my images processed on a calibrated monitor. I don't need the set claibrated for TV viewing. There are so many global adjustments which can take care of source material quality variation, such as 'cinema mode', color temperature warm or cool etc etc.

The intriguing aspect of this is the amazing specs of this 11th generation Panasonic plasma display.


Ray,

The DataColor Spyder3 TV will calibrate your plasma set:

http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-ht-s3tv.php

Jerry
« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 08:09:08 PM by jerryrock » Logged

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« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2009, 02:23:51 AM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
Ray,

The DataColor Spyder3 TV will calibrate your plasma set:

http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-ht-s3tv.php

Jerry

Jerry,
I've seen references to this device on the net and considered buying it. However, it seems to me that the Spyder TV is actually calibrating the interaction of two machines; the DVD player and the TV set. I'm not sure I need it. DVD movies and good quality broadcasts are just fine on my new Panasonic plasma TV set.

The Spyder TV would simply enable me to make more accurate adjustments of contrast, brightness and color in respect of the input which my DVD player is connected to. Can one assume that such adjustments will be appropriate for all inputs, including the antenna input and the HDMI input from my laptop if I were to use the plasma display as the main monitor for image processing in Photoshop?

Even if one allows for a certain exaggeration of the specs of this plasma set and divides all the numbers in half, say 15,000:1 contrast ratio and a mere 67 billion colors, that's still impressive. I can't help wondering how the color gamut compares with Adobe RGB. Unfortunately, this plasma set is not located at my studio where I have my printer and 64 bit desktop computer, so I can only experiment with my laptop connected to the display. For all I know, the ATI 256MB video card in the laptop might be a limitation here.


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« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2009, 02:32:36 AM »
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Quote from: Ray
Even if one allows for a certain exaggeration of the specs of this plasma set and divides all the numbers in half, say 15,000:1 contrast ratio and a mere 67 billion colors, that's still impressive. I can't help wondering how the color gamut compares with Adobe RGB. Unfortunately, this plasma set is not located at my studio where I have my printer and 64 bit desktop computer, so I can only experiment with my laptop connected to the display. For all I know, the ATI 256MB video card in the laptop might be a limitation here.

Bear in mind that in a typical room lit or in daylight, then your contrast of even 15,000:1 can't be achieved.  Even in darkness, unless the room is devoid of reflective surfaces it will be difficult.

That doesn't mean that there isn't any benefit over, say, a 1,000:1 item but once you're talking 10,000:1 and above it becomes rather meaningless.

Also, unless your laptop supports HDMI 1.3 or higher then you won't get a DeepColor signal through to the screen, so it's back to a gamut of millions of colours instead of billions of colours.  Actually, I'm not even sure that DVI supports DeepColor (assuming the laptop is actually DVI out and you're using a cable to convert to a HDMI connector in the screen).
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« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2009, 03:32:55 AM »
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Quote from: Farmer
Bear in mind that in a typical room lit or in daylight, then your contrast of even 15,000:1 can't be achieved.  Even in darkness, unless the room is devoid of reflective surfaces it will be difficult.

That doesn't mean that there isn't any benefit over, say, a 1,000:1 item but once you're talking 10,000:1 and above it becomes rather meaningless.

Also, unless your laptop supports HDMI 1.3 or higher then you won't get a DeepColor signal through to the screen, so it's back to a gamut of millions of colours instead of billions of colours.  Actually, I'm not even sure that DVI supports DeepColor (assuming the laptop is actually DVI out and you're using a cable to convert to a HDMI connector in the screen).
 

I guess we've got a lot of over-kill with these numbers, but too much is better than too little, don't you think? I'm really interested in the color gamut of these plasma pixels, but can't get much information on the subject.

My laptop is a fairly recent Dell Studio 15 with Blu-ray player, DVD burner but no Blu-ray burner. The video card is the 256MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3450 and I assume that its HDMI output would conform to the latest standard, but I'm not sure about that.

The plasma set is only capable of its full resolution through an HDMI input, when used as a computer monitor. I suspect the DVI output from my Matrox video card in my desktop computer (used with DVI to HDMI adapter) would not be capable of such high resolution.
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« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2009, 08:08:15 PM »
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The HP LP2480zx 24" DreamColor monitor arrived today along with the monitor hood and custom filtered colorimeter manufactured by Xrite as part of the HP Advanced Profiling Solution.

The colors appear to be very saturated and did benefit from calibration. The calibration software (which does run on both Mac and PC) allows you to calibrate each built in color space or create your own. Gamma, luminance, white point and RGB primaries can all be set prior to calibration. Black level can be adjusted manually in the OSD. The calibration procedure is very fast and information is saved in the monitor LUT and not the video card.

This monitor displays 100% of Adobe RGB and sRGB.
The default setting (Full) is the widest possible color gamut which make colors very saturated in non color managed applications. The beauty of this monitor is that you can instantly change to one of seven preset color spaces including Adobe RGB and sRGB with just the push of a button.

There are inputs for DVI, HDMI, Display Port, sVGA, component and composite. It also has a USB hub with 4 ports. The monitor can be swiveled, tilted and rotated 90 degrees for portrait mode.



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« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2009, 10:20:04 PM »
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Quote from: jerryrock
The HP LP2480zx 24" DreamColor monitor arrived today along with the monitor hood and custom filtered colorimeter manufactured by Xrite as part of the HP Advanced Profiling Solution.

The colors appear to be very saturated and did benefit from calibration. The calibration software (which does run on both Mac and PC) allows you to calibrate each built in color space or create your own. Gamma, luminance, white point and RGB primaries can all be set prior to calibration. Black level can be adjusted manually in the OSD. The calibration procedure is very fast and information is saved in the monitor LUT and not the video card.

This monitor displays 100% of Adobe RGB and sRGB.
The default setting (Full) is the widest possible color gamut which make colors very saturated in non color managed applications. The beauty of this monitor is that you can instantly change to one of seven preset color spaces including Adobe RGB and sRGB with just the push of a button.

There are inputs for DVI, HDMI, Display Port, sVGA, component and composite. It also has a USB hub with 4 ports. The monitor can be swiveled, tilted and rotated 90 degrees for portrait mode.

Sounds slightly upmarket from my Acer P244WB which I bought a week ago to use with my laptop, partly because it was being offered at the irresistably low price of A$320.55 (US$225) after $49 cashback from Acer  .

This is a 24" LCD 1920x1080 monitor with one D-Sub and 2 HDMI inputs. The contrast ratio is claimed to be 2000:1. The response time 2 ms is good for video but doesn't do anything for the quality of still images. Unfortunately, this monitor displays only 16.7M colors, a far cry from my plasma's 134 billion.

It doesn't appear to be a particularly good quality monitor. The colors seem to lack vibrancy, but what can one expect at that price? I guess it's better than my laptop screen.

If saturated, vibrant colors are an indication of a wide color gamut, my Panansonic Plasma TV seems unbeatable. If only it would lend itself to normal calibration procedures with my current colorimeters.
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« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2009, 04:08:21 AM »
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It seems the HP lp2480zx gets high marks and the only negative is about the dithering issue, has anyone found the dithering to be a problem in day to day usage?
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