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Author Topic: Snapshots from the Sinar booth at Photokina  (Read 14939 times)
Saša D. Karić
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« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2008, 09:57:15 AM »
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Quote from: foto-z
Hmmm, there isn't a Hasselblad dealer

Perhaps you didn't know but in case you/others are interested:

Contact: Mr. Romet
HASSELBLAD represented by Olympus Estonia in Talinn
+372 65 49 541



Quote from: foto-z
Phase dealer in this country at all.

Apparently, Estonia is such a small market that the guy from Sweden is covering sales and he is willing to travel
if you need test or need one!!!


Quote from: foto-z
I doubt the Hy6 needs Phase at all. Look at the recent poll of which platform people would buy into if given the choice today, and the Hy6 leads the poll. Hasselblad and Phase got an early lead with past products (deservedly so), but they haven't done anything interesting lately if you ask me.

You can doubt as much as you want, my point is..... it won't hurt and that's commerce!!!

As far as Edmunds Poll is concerned..... No disrespect to Michael but you don't believe these companies:

Deloitte
Baron & Baron
BBDO Worldwide
D'Arcy, Masius, Benton & Bowles
DDB Worldwide
Dentsu Group
Hakuhodo
Harrison & Star
JWT
Leo Burnett
McCann Erickson Worldwide
Publicis
TBWA Worldwide
Young and Rubicam

would base their strategy on this particular Poll or any similar one!!!

Cheers

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bcooter
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« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2008, 10:30:58 AM »
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Quote from: rainer_v
funny if some people think that the  mf market persists only ( or by majority ) from fashion photographers,
furter even mostly from US fashion photographers and finally only from US/  NY fashion photographers.

somehow egocentric. could it be?
that some NY guys think that there is no world outside NY and there is no world outside fashion
doesnt mean that the rest of the world agrees.


it's not about fashion and it's not about the U.S.

It's about what cameras are readily available for professional photographers and New York is the mecca for world advertising,  editorial and money.  

Thousands of photographers from everywhere go to New York to shoot on the day, a week or a lifetime and even if they never shoot one frame in Manhattan  most photographers of almost any level try to do something in New York.  

They  get representation and shop their portfolios up and down madison avenue.

If you removed the out of town, or foreign born photographers  the city would be empty.

And it is also about who the new cameras are marketed to.  I doubt if the Sinar 65, the Leica, or the Hy6 is marketed to architectural or still life photographers in any part of the world.  They are obviously not marketed to the wedding photographer so that leaves editorial, advertising and fashion.

This board seems to have a great deal of anti american sentiment so anytime the U.S. is mentioned it's considered egotistical, but the truth is a huge proportion of the world's advertising photography production revolves around New York and the second truth is a lot if not most of that is shot by non U.S. photographers.

You can live anywhere you want, but if your good you will somehow end up with some association to New York.

You can travel the world, talk to photographers, assistants and models and almost to a person the goal is to make it somehow to and in New York.

So what sense does it make if an expensive camera brand does not have an overwhelming presence there?




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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2008, 10:50:44 AM »
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Quote from: Saša D. Karić
Perhaps you didn't know but in case you/others are interested:

Contact: Mr. Romet
HASSELBLAD represented by Olympus Estonia in Talinn
+372 65 49 541

I don't know what that relationship is, but as far as I know I'm the only MFDB user in the country, regardless of brand. If there is a Hass dealer here, I don't think he has sold a single unit. Perhapss Hasselblad has signed up some dormant partners just to be able to say they are available in X countries?

Quote from: Saša D. Karić
As far as Edmunds Poll is concerned..... No disrespect to Michael but you don't believe these companies:
...

What does this mean? I'm not following you.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
bcooter
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« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2008, 12:48:55 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
Why on earth do people keep assuming that Canikon will be able to take over the MF market just like that? Unlike all the other platforms, they will have no exisiting lenses, so they would need to ...............................


I doubt the Hy6 needs Phase at all. Look at the recent poll of which platform people would buy into if given the choice today, and the Hy6 leads the poll. Hasselblad and Phase got an early lead with past products (deservedly so), but they haven't done anything interesting lately if you ask me.


If you think the goal of any manufacturer is to get you to buy used lenses, or for that matter make it easy to use your existing lenses, then you must have skipped business 101.

The goal is to get you to buy everything new and as much as possible and if that isn't the goal any manufacturer will be in deep trouble.

The difference between Canon and Nikon vs. the standard medium format model is even if they start from scratch with new lenses they will be a lot less money than any of the competition from Europe.

You may or may not like the quality difference, but thousands of potential buyers will take advantage of the price difference and don't forget the dealer network.  Canons and Nikons are sold everywhere.  Shelf space has a lot to do with retail sales regardless of the industry.

In regards to the HY6 being interesting, yes it is to some extent, but don't kid yourself, whoever makes and sells the HY6 would be as happy as can be to have even 1/2 of the Hasselblad H series sales and market penetration.

As far as the Hy6 needing Phase, you should call F+H and ask them that question.  I think you would be surprised at the answer and  if truth be told a lot of people that really do know the camera business will tell you what a mistake it was not to have Phase signed on at the start.  

You may be a Sinar user but if the market for the HY6 would double then your camera options would be better, your prices would probably be lower.  

Phase has sold more digital backs than anyone and they are not going to go away overnight.  I would make a bet that in the long run Phase sells more Phamiyas than Sinar and Leaf will sell HY6's.

Look how fast Phase has turned around that brand.  New body, new lenses, new grip and now an association with Leica for even more lens options.  Phase has some muscle behind them and for medium format a huge user base.  They also seem quite happy to let the Mamiya stay an open platform for every back maker which will only increase the market for the Mamiya brand.

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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2008, 01:34:25 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
If you think the goal of any manufacturer is to get you to buy used lenses, or for that matter make it easy to use your existing lenses, then you must have skipped business 101.

Why would I think that? I certainly never said it. I was making the point about customers voting with their wallets. Were you awake for that lecture in Business 101?
Mamiya wouldn't be selling anything any more if it weren't for the cheap used lenses luring people into the system. Nuff said.

Quote from: bcooter
The difference between Canon and Nikon vs. the standard medium format model is even if they start from scratch with new lenses they will be a lot less money than any of the competition from Europe.

And you know this for a fact because.... ?
Canon specialises in mass producing so-so lenses in large volumes. What makes you think they can make a killer 645-compatible 28mm wide angle lens for the same money as their consumer rubbish? Sorry but I think you're dreaming. High quality, low volume means expensive.

Quote from: bcooter
Canons and Nikons are sold everywhere.  Shelf space has a lot to do with retail sales regardless of the industry.

Probably true for consumers at the really cheap end. I doubt many pros base their camera platform choice on a dealer being a few miles closer than another!

Quote from: bcooter
Look how fast Phase has turned around that brand.  New body, new lenses, new grip and now an association with Leica for even more lens options.

The new body was a minor revision with a new sticker. I'll take your word that there is a new lens or two - I must have missed them. As for the Leica rumour, care to point to just one reliable source?
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
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« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2008, 03:03:15 PM »
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Quote from: bcooter
New body, new lenses, new grip and now an association with Leica for even more lens options.  Phase has some muscle behind them and for medium format a huge user base.


I'm not sure that the Mamiya-PhaseOne lenses could be compatible with the new Leica. I think you are dreaming.

PdF
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PdF
tho_mas
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« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2008, 03:08:34 PM »
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Quote from: PdF
I'm not sure that the Mamiya-PhaseOne lenses could be compatible with the new Leica. I think you are dreaming.
At Photokina someone of Phase One told me Leica is going to built 5 Lenses for the Phase One camera.
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2008, 03:22:52 PM »
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Quote from: tho_mas
At Photokina someone of Phase One told me Leica is going to built 5 Lenses for the Phase One camera.

...and someone else reported that Sinar would stop making digital backs (which was absolutely false). So let's wait for an official statement!
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
tho_mas
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« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2008, 03:33:31 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
So let's wait for an official statement!
True.
The same person told me the T/S is made with new glass. And I am going to believe that only then when someone shows me images at 12mm shift sharp at the edges.
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Saša D. Karić
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« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2008, 11:38:10 PM »
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Quote from: foto-z
I don't know what that relationship is, but as far as I know I'm the only MFDB user in the country, regardless of brand. If there is a Hass dealer here, I don't think he has sold a single unit. Perhapss Hasselblad has signed up some dormant partners just to be able to say they are available in X countries?

In that case disregard the contact or simply use it to your liking, obviously makes no difference to me!!!


Quote from: foto-z
What does this mean?

In general/short words means business...


Quote from: foto-z
I'm not following you.

You decided to quote excerpt/partially my answer "As far as Edmunds Poll is concerned..... No disrespect to Michael but you don't believe these companies: ..."
therefore as such, I'm not to be surprised if you don't follow!!!

In any case.... read it again or simply do the usual (keep your opinion) again.... makes no difference to me!!!

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Streetshooter
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« Reply #70 on: October 10, 2008, 03:22:30 AM »
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Quote from: bcooter
This board seems to have a great deal of anti american sentiment so anytime the U.S. is mentioned it's considered egotistical, but the truth is a huge proportion of the world's advertising photography production revolves around New York and the second truth is a lot if not most of that is shot by non U.S. photographers.

You can live anywhere you want, but if your good you will somehow end up with some association to New York.

You can travel the world, talk to photographers, assistants and models and almost to a person the goal is to make it somehow to and in New York.

Hey B Cooter,

As much as I mostly agree with what you say I think you must belong to the Flat Earth Society. There's a big World out there, the horizon extends beyond New York. There are plenty of really excellent photographers earning a good living that have never set foot in New York, and never wish to. Just because you work in the Big Apple doesn't mean you're at the top of the tree....


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TMARK
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« Reply #71 on: October 10, 2008, 10:08:34 AM »
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Quote from: Streetshooter
Hey B Cooter,

As much as I mostly agree with what you say I think you must belong to the Flat Earth Society. There's a big World out there, the horizon extends beyond New York. There are plenty of really excellent photographers earning a good living that have never set foot in New York, and never wish to. Just because you work in the Big Apple doesn't mean you're at the top of the tree....

I'm in New York, and I've been around.  Well, at least to Europe.  My impression is that for commercial and editorial fashion, New York is king.  In terms of volume and dollars.  Next is London, followed by Paris, but Paris seems more of an editorial town than a commercial fashion town.  The rest of Europe doesn't seem to have the volume of work or a cutting edge.  These are generalizations, and there are exceptions, and again are my impressions.  I wonder what the numbers are.

I have no idea what life style, products, archetechtual markets are like.

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