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Author Topic: Leaf - Sinar Technological Cooperation  (Read 3106 times)
thsinar
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« on: September 27, 2008, 03:00:00 AM »
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Dear All,

I wish here to react to some information/claims written on the LL "Photokina News" page, namely to following:

"Apparently Sinar has decided to get out of the medium format digital back business, and from now on will be obtaining their backs from Leaf. For what it's worth, this means that you'll be able to buy a Sinar branded Hy6 camera with a Leaf back, or a Leaf branded Hy6 camera with a Leaf back".

To be found here:

http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/photokina-2008.shtml

And at the same time it shall be my response to some posts and conclusions from some members here to Michael Reichmann's writing.

Sinar shall answer to this soon by sending an official Sinar reply to Michael Reichmann's words to ask him to make an official correction to the publication on LL's "Photokina '08" page.

But here and put simply: NO, Sinar is NOT getting out of the MF digital back business, and NO, Sinar is NOT obtaining their backs (implying ALL backs from the Sinar line) from Leaf, only the latest 56 MPx top of the line digital back.

More later.

Best regards,
Thierry
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 03:04:12 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
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FrançoisTT
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2008, 03:10:25 AM »
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Ouf...

Thanks Thierry for those comforting details
(I just sent my order for a Sinar Hy6 Digital solution).
Regards, François
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michael
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2008, 04:31:06 AM »
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If I am wrong, then I will be pleased to publish a retraction.

May I suggest though that the nice people that write corporate press release, and the folks in the booth that speak with visitors, provide clearer and more comprehensive information? It would be beneficial to everyone concerned.

At least three people who visited the Sinar booth yesterday came away with the impression that I published. As for the press announcement, it was fluffy doubletalk.

Michael
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thsinar
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2008, 05:26:37 AM »
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Dear Michael,

I am not sure who your people are, but what I am pretty sure of is that NONE of the Sinar people at the booth could have made such a statement nor even letting open any doubt about it: we had got clear information from our management and that had been followed.
I do also not agree when you are saying that our press release was "fluffy doubletalk": if you read it carefully, it gives quite a clear picture.

Anywa, I have just read the official reply from Sinar and which will be sent to you in a couple of seconds by our PR Manager, Lorenz Koch.

In any case, you do have Lorenz's contact and he does check his emails daily: please do contact him in the future when such is necessary to give clear information.

Thanks and best  regards,
Thierry

Quote
If I am wrong, then I will be pleased to publish a retraction.

May I suggest though that the nice people that write corporate press release, and the folks in the booth that speak with visitors, provide clearer and more comprehensive information? It would be beneficial to everyone concerned.

At least three people who visited the Sinar booth yesterday came away with the impression that I published. As for the press announcement, it was fluffy doubletalk.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224867\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2008, 06:16:05 AM »
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Thanks for the correction, Thierry. It didn't make sense what with the recent release of the very interesting 65 back, which deserves to be a big success!
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2008, 07:30:14 AM »
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Agreed Graham.

Any back that can let files go straight to DNG internally deserves to succeed.

I'll be getting one as soon as I can afford it.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2008, 07:31:25 AM »
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It also gave room for several other questions, the adapterplate system, the multishot capabilities and indeed why release a new back if your intention is to withdraw.

It does generate questions what Sinar will be doing in the high-end range in the future. Will they do their own further development on larger sensors (both physically as well as MP-wise) or leave that to Leaf?
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2008, 07:52:06 AM »
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I think everyone's taking this too far. Sinar and Leaf have co-operated before, since the early 90s I believe. For the moment, Sinar may just buy one sensor from Leaf. Perhaps the next time it will be Leaf buying from Sinar. That way they won't be duplicating so much R&D. See where I'm going with this? There's no information to suggest it's anything more.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
thsinar
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2008, 08:03:05 AM »
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That is EXACTLY how the whole should be understood: thanks to have understood it this way, Graham!

There is really no speculations to be made, either in one direction or another. Times change, business changes, so do cooperations, one day in one way, then in the other, including for this particular project.

Best regards,
Thierry

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I think everyone's taking this too far. Sinar and Leaf have co-operated before, since the early 90s I believe. For the moment, Sinar may just buy one sensor from Leaf. Perhaps the next time it will be Leaf buying from Sinar. That way they won't be duplicating so much R&D. See where I'm going with this? There's no information to suggest it's anything more.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=224890\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
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Dustbak
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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2008, 08:11:48 AM »
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Good to hear it is just that.

BTW, plain asking for these things and receiving a clear answer is IMO always the best thing because that will take away the necessity to speculate.
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Eric Myrvaagnes
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2008, 09:20:18 AM »
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IMHO, Sinar needs to produce several clones of Thierry, or at least funnel all PR material through him, since he always provides clear, unambiguous information.

It is good to see that Michael has made a correction and closed the other thread before it got too wild.
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-Eric Myrvaagnes

http://myrvaagnes.com  Visit my website. New images each season.
bradleygibson
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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2008, 10:03:41 AM »
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Does anyone know when the AFi-II 10 (or the Sinar version) is slated to ship?  If an expected ship date has been announced I have missed it.

This technology is quite likely to be my next digital back (pending image quality and pricing, of course...)  I'd like to make some requests of Sinar and/or Leaf regarding this back, early on, if I may:

Histogram:
   * Please, please provide a 4-channel histogram!  It is very easy to clip specific colors without warning with a single-channel histogram.

Metadata:
   * Please at least record, but ideally take advantage of the Hy6's color temperature sensor.
   * Please record lens information (at least focal length), but ideally as specifically as possible.  Even if a simple code was recorded to the file that was looked up by post-processing software on the computer and expanded to the proper and complete lens model/designation.
   * Timezone support - I'd like to be able to tell the back what timezone I'm in and have that recorded in the file as well (EXIF doesn't support this but DNG/XMP does).
   * "Virtual SensorFlex" - assuming SensorFlex only records the appropriate number of pixels for the aspect ratio being selected, it would be nice to still record all the pixels the senor saw but had the aspect ratio setting simply be metadata that allowed the image to be 'auto-cropped' in post.  This would still give a very efficient workflow, but would allow the photographer to change her mind after the fact.  Perhaps this is already how it works...
   * Feature request - I'd love to see some form of integrated GPS solution.

File formats:
   * Would you consider supporting .DNG and .DNG + JPEG as standard, out-of-the-back all-in one file formats?
   * I would also like to request considering extending the strategic alliance to Leaf's workflow tools?  It would be nice to have a choice of Adobe, Leaf and Sinar workflow tools, for whatever worked best for the customer.

Venting:
   * I'm not sure what other cooling options are availabe and practical, but as a nature photographer, open vents make me nervous out in the field (think wet rainforest weather or Death Valley wind + sand...  Fanless, vent-free cooling would be ideal.

Memory Architecture
   * While I love having an extra 6GB of memory in the e75LV, the implementation does get in my way, as I a strict CF card shooter.  Addressing the following would make CF card shooting a 'first class citizen', on par with shooting to memory:
      - Preview disappears from screen once shot has been copied to CF card.  No way to set  the length of time or to override.
      - Have to press 'down' button to begin reviewing card, but this setting does not stick.  Must be done each time a picture is shot and the user wants to review from the card.
      - First thing that is shown is a big sign over my image explaining how to get back to viewing memory.  I have to press another button (each time a picture is shot that I want to review on the card) to dismiss this.  No way to suppress this message.
      - Have to change recording settings to keep Custom White Balance in memory in order to custom white balance from it.  Then switch back to normal shooting (CF only) settings.
      - When viewing last image from CF card, pressing 'right' does not wrap to first image.  For impromptu review/shows, left-arrowing through hundreds of images to get to the beginning is painful.
      - After taking the picture, it takes some time for the preview to appear.  It can be several seconds before I can check my exposure/composition, and light/wildlife/scenes often do not stay still for that long.

Power:
    * Allowing the back to be powered by the camera battery would permit single-battery operation in a pinch.

Cosmetics:
    * The AFi-II 10's color scheme is lovely, without any of that blue-gray.

Thanks, as always, Thierry & Yair, for your superb and tireless support!

Kind regards,
Brad
« Last Edit: September 27, 2008, 10:49:22 AM by bradleygibson » Logged

FrançoisTT
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2008, 10:21:09 AM »
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Jonns,
I must clarify that I wrote this morning a topic about the (first) Michael news because I just order a Sinar DB... two days ago !! and the information leave me a little puzzled.
PS : Be the first to post information on LL Forum does really not matter to me.
ME ME ME... I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW ... JUST THAT I WILL SOON BE ABLE TO TAKE GREAT PHOTOS WITH MY NEW HY6.
Regards,
François
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FrançoisTT
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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2008, 10:25:11 AM »
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(and excuse me, John, for having bad spell your name in my previous message).
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