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Author Topic: Phase One prices? and which back for Hasselblad V?  (Read 3907 times)
vantomas
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« on: October 02, 2008, 03:53:53 AM »
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Hi everybody,

i have finally decided on buying a MFDB and it will be Phase1. Not sure which one, but I will be doing several test over the next couple of weeks to find out, which one will suit my needs. Since my budget is limited, I might want to go for the Hasselblad V System. So there are a few questions:

1.) will P1 drop its prices, after Hasselblad has really gone down seriously?
Here in Europe the current prices for refurbs are: P25 / P30 - EUR 9000, P45 - EUR 11000.-
and the new backs: P25+/P30+ EUR 12000.-, P45+ EUR 26000.-
According to my local Phasedealer they are trying to get rid of all refurbs and sell the +backs only from next year on. The current Hasselblad offer is a H3D-31 with lens for EUR 11000.-

2.) what back you use on a Hasselbald V? P25 (larger chip, less crop, lower resolution) or the P30 (smaller chip, larger crop, higher resoltion). I mainly shoot portraits and corporate stuff.

3.) is the "+" worth the extra money?

4.) and while I am at it: Is the quality of CF-E lenses significantly better than the one of CF lenses?

will appreciate any reallife advice.

thanks for help
thomas

ps: i do have a Mk3 with all the L-Glass, which I like, but I often find it too happy-snappy. I am looking for a camera to slow me down and  concentrate.  Thats why I am opting for the V.

www.dashuber.com
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Lust4Life
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2008, 06:05:19 AM »
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The P45, not the +, with a 503cw and CFi (they are much better) lenses have given me outstanding images in the past.  Drawback is no TTL focus or exposure, but the images were excellent!  With the P45+ I found a little more shadow detail and you can do a longer exposure, but if on a budget, it is not enough to compensate for the cost increase.  I'd get a P45 before a + of a lower pixel count back.


Quote
Hi everybody,

i have finally decided on buying a MFDB and it will be Phase1. Not sure which one, but I will be doing several test over the next couple of weeks to find out, which one will suit my needs. Since my budget is limited, I might want to go for the Hasselblad V System. So there are a few questions:

1.) will P1 drop its prices, after Hasselblad has really gone down seriously?
Here in Europe the current prices for refurbs are: P25 / P30 - EUR 9000, P45 - EUR 11000.-
and the new backs: P25+/P30+ EUR 12000.-, P45+ EUR 26000.-
According to my local Phasedealer they are trying to get rid of all refurbs and sell the +backs only from next year on. The current Hasselblad offer is a H3D-31 with lens for EUR 11000.-

2.) what back you use on a Hasselbald V? P25 (larger chip, less crop, lower resolution) or the P30 (smaller chip, larger crop, higher resoltion). I mainly shoot portraits and corporate stuff.

3.) is the "+" worth the extra money?

4.) and while I am at it: Is the quality of CF-E lenses significantly better than the one of CF lenses?

will appreciate any reallife advice.

thanks for help
thomas

ps: i do have a Mk3 with all the L-Glass, which I like, but I often find it too happy-snappy. I am looking for a camera to slow me down and  concentrate.  Thats why I am opting for the V.

www.dashuber.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226277\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2008, 06:11:57 AM »
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i have finally decided on buying a MFDB and it will be Phase1. Not sure which one
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226277\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sorry but this sets off alarm bells with me. How can you choose the brand before knowing which back you want?

Starting off with a Hasselblad V system might seem to save a little money now but there are compromises with this system, and with a Phase back and its fixed mount you won't be able to use the back on another platform later. That's why I'd take a look at the Sinar backs, which will also work on the V but just change adapter and then use it on a M645, C645, Hy6, Hass H, etc.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
Photomangreg
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2008, 06:17:24 AM »
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Sorry but this sets off alarm bells with me. How can you choose the brand before knowing which back you want?

Starting off with a Hasselblad V system might seem to save a little money now but there are compromises with this system, and with a Phase back and its fixed mount you won't be able to use the back on another platform later. That's why I'd take a look at the Sinar backs, which will also work on the V but just change adapter and then use it on a M645, C645, Hy6, Hass H, etc.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226293\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is a great reason to check out the Hasselblad CF series of backs, you can also change the adapter plate and use it on a variety of cameras.
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amsp
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2008, 06:31:25 AM »
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Sorry but this sets off alarm bells with me. How can you choose the brand before knowing which back you want?

Starting off with a Hasselblad V system might seem to save a little money now but there are compromises with this system, and with a Phase back and its fixed mount you won't be able to use the back on another platform later. That's why I'd take a look at the Sinar backs, which will also work on the V but just change adapter and then use it on a M645, C645, Hy6, Hass H, etc.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226293\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Seriously dude, are you fishing for a sales job at Sinar or are you already on the payroll? You're like in EVERY thread trying to push the brand like some rabid pitbull, even when the OP clearly states he's decided on a PhaseOne. Give it a rest already.


As for advice to the OP I'd say go for a P25/45 (+ series is not worth the extra cash for what you do I think), but either wait to see if there are price reductions from P1 or buy it on the used market for less. I'd also think about going with a Mamiya AFD, it's more affordable than a hassy and you'll be investing in a camera system that is not obsolete.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 06:36:09 AM by amsp » Logged
AndrewDyer
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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2008, 07:15:54 AM »
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Starting off with a Hasselblad V system might seem to save a little money now but there are compromises with this system, and with a Phase back and its fixed mount you won't be able to use the back on another platform later.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226293\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually, there is a reason why the V mount is also known as the "Universal" mount.
My Leaf V mount slots onto the back of a Sinar P2 and others without changing any adapter plates.

Vantomas, if you like the V camera, then you can fantastic images from it, the lenses still hold up well.
I would also recommend getting the larger chips such as the P25 or P45

all the best.
Andrew
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Khun_K
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2008, 07:38:26 AM »
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Seriously dude, are you fishing for a sales job at Sinar or are you already on the payroll? You're like in EVERY thread trying to push the brand like some rabid pitbull, even when the OP clearly states he's decided on a PhaseOne. Give it a rest already.
As for advice to the OP I'd say go for a P25/45 (+ series is not worth the extra cash for what you do I think), but either wait to see if there are price reductions from P1 or buy it on the used market for less. I'd also think about going with a Mamiya AFD, it's more affordable than a hassy and you'll be investing in a camera system that is not obsolete.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226298\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't find patronize a particular brand is an issue, it is just a preference, and often backed by satisfactory experience to promote a particular brand, even did not get paid.  But anyway, I move up to P45+ from P45, and really, there is only very little gain on quality, especially on prints you can't really tell the difference, so it really depend on whether shooting time exposure is absolute required or not, otherwise I can't see good commercial reason for P45+ compares to P45.  I did it because I thought it will be a lot better, but later, I try to convince myself at least when there is a newer back coming, it cost less to upgrade.  In reality, all the digital backs are all very capable these days, and V system with the latest digital back, although  doable, you lost the direct electronic contact, and certain EXIF data, and most importantly, there are some situation may be AF is a worthy option and acts faster. I am a long time Contax 645 user, and coming from that, I would believe it is equally important you give your digital back a modern platform and in this case, Sinar/Hy6 is really a good choice.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 07:41:07 AM by Khun_K » Logged
joerg_glaescher
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« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2008, 07:40:59 AM »
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I had Hassi V and p30 for the last 3 years, and I changed to Phase one camera and lenses and the p30+ back. The Lenses are much sharper than the cf and cfi but its more like a big slf 35 mm camera. I also got trouble with the sync cable which you have to use with the phase one backs.

I quiet happy with the P1 camera and back, just missing the waistlevel finder.

joerg
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Graham Mitchell
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« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2008, 07:57:41 AM »
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I don't find patronize a particular brand is an issue, it is just a preference, and often backed by satisfactory experience to promote a particular brand, even did not get paid.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226312\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for understanding. I don't always promote one brand, and I try to be objective although of course I know more about the Sinar products than some of the other brands. I'm also a huge fan of the adapter system. You'll find that many times I recommend Sinar my reason is (such as in this thread) someone sounds unsure about which platform to use, or perhaps they seem like they might want to switch down the line.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 08:26:04 AM by foto-z » Logged

Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2008, 08:10:14 AM »
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Seriously dude, are you fishing for a sales job at Sinar or are you already on the payroll? You're like in EVERY thread trying to push the brand like some rabid pitbull, even when the OP clearly states he's decided on a PhaseOne. Give it a rest already.
As for advice to the OP I'd say go for a P25/45 (+ series is not worth the extra cash for what you do I think), but either wait to see if there are price reductions from P1 or buy it on the used market for less. I'd also think about going with a Mamiya AFD, it's more affordable than a hassy and you'll be investing in a camera system that is not obsolete.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226298\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

From Merriam Webster online dictionary:


Obsolete:
1 a: no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b: of a kind or style no longer current

Considering the Hasselblad V series camera is still being produced as well as lenses AND that backs are still being produced to go on them, I think obsolete is the wrong word to use.  Some of the benefits of the V series vs the Mamiya are:  Better glass, and very easily available in the used market, higher flash sync speed, square format means no rotating of the camera, just the back on the camera, etc.
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thsinar
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« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2008, 08:16:10 AM »
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amsp,

may I respectfully ask you to avoid these kind of comments? Graham is very well known as a customer by the Sinar people, but we don't have photographers on the payroll to speak for us. Graham is free to speak, in good or in bad (about Sinar), and is saying so when things need to be improved (with Sinar). There is certainly nothing wrong to awake awareness when it comes to be able or not to adapt the back to another camera platform, especially when the OP speaks about a V system

I would suggest to you, not to Graham, to give it a rest to bash and criticize comments/ideas/suggestions coming from Sinar users (or from myself) each time when you have the opportunity to do it.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Seriously dude, are you fishing for a sales job at Sinar or are you already on the payroll? You're like in EVERY thread trying to push the brand like some rabid pitbull, even when the OP clearly states he's decided on a PhaseOne. Give it a rest already.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226298\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
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« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2008, 08:44:29 AM »
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Hi everybody,

i have finally decided on buying a MFDB and it will be Phase1. Not sure which one, but I will be doing several test over the next couple of weeks to find out, which one will suit my needs. Since my budget is limited, I might want to go for the Hasselblad V System. So there are a few questions:

1.) will P1 drop its prices, after Hasselblad has really gone down seriously?
Here in Europe the current prices for refurbs are: P25 / P30 - EUR 9000, P45 - EUR 11000.-
and the new backs: P25+/P30+ EUR 12000.-, P45+ EUR 26000.-
According to my local Phasedealer they are trying to get rid of all refurbs and sell the +backs only from next year on. The current Hasselblad offer is a H3D-31 with lens for EUR 11000.-

2.) what back you use on a Hasselbald V? P25 (larger chip, less crop, lower resolution) or the P30 (smaller chip, larger crop, higher resoltion). I mainly shoot portraits and corporate stuff.

3.) is the "+" worth the extra money?

4.) and while I am at it: Is the quality of CF-E lenses significantly better than the one of CF lenses?

will appreciate any reallife advice.

thanks for help
thomas

ps: i do have a Mk3 with all the L-Glass, which I like, but I often find it too happy-snappy. I am looking for a camera to slow me down and  concentrate.  Thats why I am opting for the V.

www.dashuber.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226277\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i found myself asking the same question foto-z asked regarding choosing a back before choosing a platform....
if it were me, and i had budgetary constraints, i would be looking at systems first-platforms and backs, software and interface, and trying to get the best bang for the buck.  i'm not suggesting that an "a la carte" solution, may not ultimately be a great  and cost effective option, but you have some very motivated companies out here trying to move current systems.  
 i am also assuming the af is not a concern of yours for you corporate and portrait work ...if you do want the option, you have to look elsewhere.  as far as slowing yourself down with the mk3,  you can always put camera in manual mode and set your L lenses to mf....
i did forget one thing...the one reason you did not discuss in leaning towards the format,  was the format itself---to me this is a very compelling reason to have strong feelings about the v system either way over some of the other options.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 08:49:46 AM by canmiya » Logged
micmatthews
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« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2008, 08:48:20 AM »
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Hello,

I think you should ask yourself the following question to decided between a P25 or a P30. Since they are the same price. Do you need more speed or do you shoot more group shoots. If you need the speed to photograph children for example then P30 is best. If you need the wider angle to do corporate group shoots the P25 is best. The P30 is 9 frames fast a minute.

I do not think you need the plus features to get started. You can always upgrade later down the road when the back has paid for its self.

To answer your last question the carl ziess glass is great glass. If you like using the Hasselblad V camera body you will be fine with the glass. There is no need to change bodies unless you need Auto focus.


Hope this helps.
Michelle

You
Quote
Hi everybody,

i have finally decided on buying a MFDB and it will be Phase1. Not sure which one, but I will be doing several test over the next couple of weeks to find out, which one will suit my needs. Since my budget is limited, I might want to go for the Hasselblad V System. So there are a few questions:

1.) will P1 drop its prices, after Hasselblad has really gone down seriously?
Here in Europe the current prices for refurbs are: P25 / P30 - EUR 9000, P45 - EUR 11000.-
and the new backs: P25+/P30+ EUR 12000.-, P45+ EUR 26000.-
According to my local Phasedealer they are trying to get rid of all refurbs and sell the +backs only from next year on. The current Hasselblad offer is a H3D-31 with lens for EUR 11000.-

2.) what back you use on a Hasselbald V? P25 (larger chip, less crop, lower resolution) or the P30 (smaller chip, larger crop, higher resoltion). I mainly shoot portraits and corporate stuff.

3.) is the "+" worth the extra money?

4.) and while I am at it: Is the quality of CF-E lenses significantly better than the one of CF lenses?

will appreciate any reallife advice.

thanks for help
thomas

ps: i do have a Mk3 with all the L-Glass, which I like, but I often find it too happy-snappy. I am looking for a camera to slow me down and  concentrate.  Thats why I am opting for the V.

www.dashuber.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226277\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Best regards,
Michelle Matthews
Digital Transitions
mrm@digitaltransitions.com
www.digitaltransitions.com
vantomas
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« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2008, 08:56:02 AM »
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the reason why i choose P1 is because we have excellent P1 support in germany, i know my way in C1, all my colleagues rave about the really great quality, and P1 offers me a good deal. when i want to change paltform from e.g. V to Mamiya they will adapt it for me.

- the hy6 options is too expensive for my likings.
- the H-system is for my taste too close to my MK3. I had a H1 and it was ok.
but i wouldnt go an extra mile for this camera.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2008, 09:06:28 AM »
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the reason why i choose P1 is because we have excellent P1 support in germany, i know my way in C1, all my colleagues rave about the really great quality, and P1 offers me a good deal. when i want to change paltform from e.g. V to Mamiya they will adapt it for me.

- the hy6 options is too expensive for my likings.
- the H-system is for my taste too close to my MK3. I had a H1 and it was ok.
but i wouldnt go an extra mile for this camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226327\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Which is why somebody mentioned the CF. This back uses adapterplates with which you can use it on multiple systems (H, V, Mamiya, Rollei600x, etc..).

When using it with the 555ELD with the 2-way adapter you don't even need a sync cable (just like the CFV back). Unfortunately you don't have that option with my favorite 500 (503CW). I find the whole sync cable thingy truly annoying, some people don't mind. I could work with it but prefer doing without.

Anyway, like Graham just mentioning it as an alternative possibility. If you have already decided to go P1. I personally would go for the largest sensor (eg. P25). 6x6 is already much larger and the crop with 48x36 is about as much as I could stand. It might be different for you.

The + as far as I have heard from others is truly worth considering when you definitely need long exposures.

I have always used CF glass and I believe the windows in CF lenses are not different from those in CFi. Maybe others can enlighten us if they do.

I am pretty sure prices of P25 & P30 will drop in the coming months but 'hey, who knows anything for sure'
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vantomas
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« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2008, 09:10:17 AM »
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does anybody know the prices of the CF backs? i know they exist, but that's about it.
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Photomangreg
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« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2008, 09:51:30 AM »
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does anybody know the prices of the CF backs? i know they exist, but that's about it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226331\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hassselblad CFII39 back is $19,995 NEW, full warranty, etc.  Includes one i-adapter plate.
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paul_jones
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« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2008, 10:30:21 AM »
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Hassselblad CFII39 back is $19,995 NEW, full warranty, etc.  Includes one i-adapter plate.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=226335\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

does the new hasselblad lenses work with the cf back? ie, 28 and the 35-90?
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check my new website
http://www.paulrossjones.com
Dustbak
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« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2008, 10:44:24 AM »
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Only when you use it together with a H2F body. It basically works like a H3 with the exception of DAC III? (ultra-focus). In every other aspect it functions like a H3 but it has its own power supply, slightly smaller screen & adapter plates.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 10:46:41 AM by Dustbak » Logged
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