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Author Topic: What system for landscape?  (Read 6600 times)
Dan Wells
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« on: October 03, 2008, 11:33:56 PM »
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Since Hasselblad's announcement drove prices down across the industry, I've been contemplating an upgrade from Canon digital to an MF digital system. The three systems I am looking at are Phase/Mamiya, Hasselblad and Sinar - and a lot of the decision will be dependent on who can get me a good price on a refurbished back or system (I'm also an educator, so I'm attempting to get an educational discount of some sort on a refurbished system). If I have multiple reasonable offers, I'm not sure which system to choose (and I live in Nowhere, VT - a great place to be a landscape photographer, but a terrible one to try equipment out  ). As far as I can tell, there are advantages and disadvantages to all three systems, and I'm not sure how to weigh them.

In favor of Phase/Mamiya:
Only sealed back - others have ventilation holes to be careful of
Cheapest and possibly lightest lenses
Best software (and I've already used Capture One for 35mm digital processing and like it)
Probably lightest system
Fastest shutter - I don't really care about flash most of the time (although I sometimes use it for portraits, and would probably own one)

Against Phase/Mamiya:
Least finder versatility (built-in 90 degree prism)
Clumsy battery system with two different types of battery
Less expensive lenses may not be up to quality of other systems - newer D lenses are, but very expensive
Least well integrated camera - body not as sophisticated as H3D or Hy6.

In favor of Hasselblad:
Very sophisticated body complete with zone system metering and many other features
Body/back integration (single battery, etc...) - this is almost strictly an advantage for me, because I don't own previous MF digital gear.
New HTS 1.5 tilt/shift adapter offers by far the easiest perspective control solution (expensive, so not right away, but it's a nice option)
Integral flash may be all the flash I ever need (one less thing to buy and carry)

Against Hasselblad:
Heaviest system
Most difficult upgrades
Expensive batteries available only from Hasselblad

In favor of Sinar:
Probably best lenses
Waist-level finder (as a landscape photographer, I actually prefer the waist-level)
Generally reviewed as extremely comfortable body to use
Good integration (although perhaps not Hasselblad level)
Rotatable back, with revolving back option

Against Sinar:
Poor availability, especially of used and refurbished equipment
Two batteries with most backs (although they are at least the same type, and both rechargeable)
Expensive lenses and accessories
Fan may suck dust into back

Have I missed anything, and how did landscape folks here weigh these options?

                                        -Dan


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bradleygibson
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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2008, 12:19:54 AM »
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Hi, Dan,

As a fellow nature photographer who was in your shoes just a couple of years ago, I can relate to the decision you're trying to make.

Your summary seems pretty much spot on--except the Sinar back (at least the eMotion75LV) does not have vents (or, I presume, a fan).  Were you thinking about the Leaf?  It has both.

All of the systems will do a good job--you'll find lots of folks who love their respective systems.

I believe this all comes down to subjective factors (more about YOU than the camera).  What are you most concerned about?  Weight?  Handling?  Image quality?  Speed?  Price?  Support?  I think these factors are very subjective and should have a big influence on your decision.

If you let us know your preferences, I think you'll get more relevant recommendations.

Best regards,
Brad


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Dan Wells
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« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2008, 12:53:40 AM »
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I'm certainly highly price-sensitive (this is only possible if I can get an especially good deal - probably on refurbished equipment), and beyond that, my priorities are:

Image quality - why move to MF except for the big jump in image quality? This includes optics and sensor...
Field usability - lighter is better (body and lenses), longer battery life is better, more rugged is better
Metering - a nice, tight spotmeter is a priority, Hasselblad's zone mode a really nice addition (does Sinar do something comparable - I'm almost sure Mamiya does not)

Less important to me:
Speed - I'm shooting landscape - who cares if the camera is 1 frame per second or one frame every two seconds
Tethered usability - I'll never use it that way, so an especially elegant tethering system means nothing to me

Ergonomics I'd like to see:
All right-handed controls (I don't have a functional left hand - I do rest cameras on my left arm when shooting handheld, but I certainly can't manipulate a critical left-side control). Left-side controls that don't have to be manipulated while shooting are fine.
I prefer waist-level viewing, at least as an option - I won't rule out an "eye-level-only"camera, but I would prefer the choice. It seems like only Sinar offers a really useful waist-level (Hasselblad's is non folding and you lose metering, right)

The only unique accessory I've seen that makes a difference to me is Hasselblad's tilt/shift adapter.

I'd prefer to avoid microlenses, because I could see using the back on a view camera in the future - the (partial) exception to that would be Hasselblad, because they have the corrected tilt/shift adapter instead (which takes the microlenses into account).

                                                               -Dan

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samuel_js
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« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2008, 01:16:11 AM »
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Hi Dan,
The best navigation controls would be PhaseOne. Easy to change settings. I actually rest the camera on my left hand and adjust settings with my right one. Maybe this is a plus for you if you have this handicap.

PhaseOne backs are capable of vey long exposures too.

Haven't you considered the V system? I think is the best affordable/flexible system if you don't need autofocus. Waist level finder, 45 or 90 degree. Lenses up to 500 mm. Tilt/shift adapter, no need for batteries...
If you want spot metering, then there's the 205, centered metering the 203 camera etc.. A lot of options.

The back is more personal taste but if you are a landscape photographer the V system is worth a look.

/Samuel
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pixjohn
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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2008, 01:21:44 AM »
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Leaf?

Quote from: Dan Wells
Have I missed anything, and how did landscape folks here weigh these options?

                                        -Dan
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paul_jones
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2008, 02:06:01 AM »
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the phase back isnt any tougher.
i wouldnt consider the phase back any better at weather protection, they still dont have sealed backs, theres a join where it comes apart where water can come in. my p25 got a splash of salt water and it was written off. the water got into the FW plug hole (although now they have a rubber bung to cover it.

im surprised the back makers havnt made their backs rain proof, and sold that feature as unique selling point. the phase back only has a few places it needs to water proof as it doesnt have a fan.

the hasselblad has a battery pack that disposable batteries, cr123's i think. i aways have a box of these in my case so i dont have to worry about running out of power. the rechargable batteries arent very expensive in relation to the back purchase.

i think you consider all the combinations of cameras and backs, ie ive used phase with haselblad and they work well. contax is a really nice camera, a lot nicer than mamiya in my opinion, ive owned one, and would still have one if they leaf shutter lenses.

i know of a couple of very good landscape photographers that use alpas  with their digital backs.  i personally think that is the ultimate landscape setup, small and light, and extremely good quality lenses with shift.  and i think they wont lose value like slr type medium format cameras as the design is more timeless.

if you are trying to save money, a refurb p45 is almost as good as a p45+, and a heap cheaper, still with a warrantee. phase have petty long exposure times as well. the best side of phase that really sold me is the software, its the smoothest running ive used. ive got leaf for the 6 months ( i bought a cheap optio when my p25 was writen off), and leaf software is quite useable, it really isnt in the same league as phase software. im holding out to get a phase back again.

paul



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Khun_K
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2008, 02:39:29 AM »
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Quote from: paul_jones
the phase back isnt any tougher.
i wouldnt consider the phase back any better at weather protection, they still dont have sealed backs, theres a join where it comes apart where water can come in. my p25 got a splash of salt water and it was written off. the water got into the FW plug hole (although now they have a rubber bung to cover it.

im surprised the back makers havnt made their backs rain proof, and sold that feature as unique selling point. the phase back only has a few places it needs to water proof as it doesnt have a fan.

the hasselblad has a battery pack that disposable batteries, cr123's i think. i aways have a box of these in my case so i dont have to worry about running out of power. the rechargable batteries arent very expensive in relation to the back purchase.

i think you consider all the combinations of cameras and backs, ie ive used phase with haselblad and they work well. contax is a really nice camera, a lot nicer than mamiya in my opinion, ive owned one, and would still have one if they leaf shutter lenses.

i know of a couple of very good landscape photographers that use alpas  with their digital backs.  i personally think that is the ultimate landscape setup, small and light, and extremely good quality lenses with shift.  and i think they wont lose value like slr type medium format cameras as the design is more timeless.

if you are trying to save money, a refurb p45 is almost as good as a p45+, and a heap cheaper, still with a warrantee. phase have petty long exposure times as well. the best side of phase that really sold me is the software, its the smoothest running ive used. ive got leaf for the 6 months ( i bought a cheap optio when my p25 was writen off), and leaf software is quite useable, it really isnt in the same league as phase software. im holding out to get a phase back again.

paul
I put rubber bands around the back when I need to.  I think the medium format back companies are all relatively small and cannot afford engineering so much around a product sold in small number, and when they do, there are no whether proof medium format system for the back to attach too, except those fully mechanical ones. Besides careful, you need to be more careful.  
I also use H3D39 and to be frankly, H3D39 needs the rechargeable battery to work, when you put a CR123 cell, it last only a few shots.  I use H3D39 in my last Tibet trip, shot in light rain and snow at high altitude, and around -5 to -10 C condition, it is OK (without the rubber bands), I suppose it is not just H3D39, all the backs and current medium format system can counter that, but not the level of Canon 1Ds series.And for landscape, I think the current pick would have to be Sinar ArTec that offer the level of fine lenses and rotation/stitching capabilities. I hope it will open to all the backs.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 02:41:45 AM by Khun_K » Logged
thsinar
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2008, 06:06:20 AM »
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hi Dan,

Some precisions, both for your "in favor" and "against" points:

- interchangeable adapters for all Sinarbacks

- 2 batteries give more autonomy, both to the camera body and digital back (with the eMotion 75 up to 2000 shots)
- Sinar Hy6 65 can be used with one battery only (powers then back and camera from the handle battery)
- No ventilator in eMotion series, only in Sinar Hy6 65 and Sinarback eSprit 65: however, a ventilator DOES NOT suck dust inside: there are 16 years of experience with ventilator, never had such issue.

On a side note, since you consider shooting landscapes: I would have a look to the arTec

At your disposal for any further information.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: Dan Wells
In favor of Sinar:
Probably best lenses
Waist-level finder (as a landscape photographer, I actually prefer the waist-level)
Generally reviewed as extremely comfortable body to use
Good integration (although perhaps not Hasselblad level)
Rotatable back, with revolving back option

Against Sinar:
Poor availability, especially of used and refurbished equipment
Two batteries with most backs (although they are at least the same type, and both rechargeable)
Expensive lenses and accessories
Fan may suck dust into back

                                        -Dan
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Thierry Hagenauer
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2008, 08:55:06 AM »
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To be frank, if you wanted the best landscape system, it would have to be a view camera of some sort with Rodenstock/Schneider lenses and tilt/shift.

If you want to do portrait work as well, then perhaps you will need two cameras, in which case get a digital back with an adapter system (e.g. Sinar) so you can use arTec, M645, C645, H1/2, Hass V, Hy6/AFi and more all with the same back.
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Graham Mitchell - www.graham-mitchell.com
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2008, 09:09:49 AM »
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Another option, unfortunately will only be available new, and not until next year, is the Leica S2 system: 30x45mm 6-micron 37.5 MP Kodak sensor, weather sealed, smaller than a 1DsIII, handling like a DSLR, lenses (including a 30mm T/S) have MTF "curves" that hug the top of the MTF chart.

Disadvantages: no W/L finder option, $$$$$
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samuel_js
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2008, 09:18:10 AM »
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Quote from: foto-z
To be frank, if you wanted the best landscape system, it would have to be a view camera of some sort with Rodenstock/Schneider lenses and tilt/shift.

If you want to do portrait work as well, then perhaps you will need two cameras, in which case get a digital back with an adapter system (e.g. Sinar) so you can use arTec, M645, C645, H1/2, Hass V, Hy6/AFi and more all with the same back.

I agree. There are also the new series of technical cameras like the Alpha, Cambo Wide RS and the Horseman SW-D II. Very nice cameras.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 09:19:29 AM by samuel_js » Logged
Lust4Life
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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2008, 09:25:09 AM »
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Dan,

Your question is one I'm constantly re-evaluating.  There is no easy solution and all solutions require compromises.

If you check my prior post, you'll see a lot of what I've learned on the topic and what I've used in the past 40 years of shooting landscape.

In summary:
First item that controls all of the rest and must rule the decision of any landscape photographer:  Quality of the Lenses!
Period - if glass is not excellent, forget what you mate to it.

My tests show the Schneider/Rodenstock on a Technical camera can't be matched (Cambo/Alpa) by Hasselblad, Sinar, Leaf or Phase for pure landscape work.  

I've tested both the Cambo WDS and the Alpa 12Max and found that for landscape work and cost of entry, the Cambo WDS is my choice.  It produced an identical image quality to the Alpa - they both use the same glass (Alpa claims they "hand pick" the best of the glass, but dang it, you can't go wrong with out of the box Schneider/Rodenstock glass).  

Yes, the Alpa is more "refined", but for landscape work, I don't need surgical precision.  And the cost delta is dramatic when you factor in your 3 favorite focal length lenses.  

Yes the Sinar arTec is offering lens tilt that I miss from my 4x5 days, BUT dang, look at the cost of that system compared to the Cambo!  For the rare occasion when I feel I want just a tad more DOF in my landscape image than I can get from a single shot with the Cambo, I shot two or more with different focus points and blend them with Helicon Focus!  That action leaves many thousands of dollars in my pocket compared to the Sinar arTec, and this is important for most of us Landscape shooters who do not attract the sale prices of our prints that Adams prints get!

Thus, I just received a Cambo WDS and 35mm Schneider Digitar that I purchased new.  So that much of my decision is done for me.  I'll add lenses as I find them in the used market.  And I can always add the WRS body if I want something smaller and a bit lighter for my backpack OR as a possible shooter in street work!  I've roamed the world with a 500cm and 503cw and shot excellent images just by knowing the the EV values, so why not move the WDS lenses to the WRS and use it for my street work?  Frankly, walking through the world constantly judging what would be the correct f stop/shutter speed is fun and with a little practice is easy.

Now, what back to mate to the Technical camera - well this is not a straight forward as the camera body decision for me.

I've owned the P45 and the P45+ which I had mated to the 503CW and the H1 and H2 cameras (and none of these combinations could give me the DOF and Rise that the Cambo/Tech Camera does).  Yes, as you, I liked the H1 and H2 users controls that Hasselblad's developed - no one has matched  those features.  

But remember, to me anything other than a Tech Camera is a big compromise down from what I can get with the Cambo/Tech camera.

So putting aside for the moment the idea of using the Cambo WRS for street work,  I've recently I tested the Mamiya/Phase camera with the P45+ and I'm currently wrapping up my 9 day tests of the Leaf AFI 7.

Conclusions of these test:  
I've found that the Leaf AFI 7 is producing a better image (sharper, less noise, less moire, better color balance) than the Mamiya/Phase even though there is a difference of 33MP to 39MP.  Reason in my mind is primarily the glass in front of the sensor!  Leaf AFI is using the Schneider lenses and the Mamiya lenses just are not in that class.  (Back considerations alone -Leaf shorter maximum exposure time of 32seconds verse up to 1 hours with P45+, but I've very rarely found a situation that demanded a longer than 32" shot for my landscape work).

Thus, what am I going to do from this point - still wrestling with that; I've chosen the Tech Camera I'm going to use but still wrestling with the back and street camera.

I'm at a brick wall until Leaf and Phase define what they will do to match or beat the Hasselblad recent price reduction.  Until that is done, I'm in a holding pattern with my cash sitting in the bank, which is not all bad considering where our economy is headed!
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Dan Wells
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2008, 09:32:43 AM »
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I've thought a bit about both the view camera option and the Leica (actually more about the rumored Nikon MX, which seems to be the same type of camera), and decided that neither one makes a good first venture into MF digital. The view camera is not versatile enough without also having another camera (although I will certainly add one sooner or later to whatever setup I choose - I just want both the quicker-handling SLR option and the view camera). That is one of the major points in favor of the Hasselblad for me - that tilt-shift adapter is compact, light and provides a view camera without needing another set of lenses. The Leica is TOO much like a DSLR - I'm moving to medium format, at least in part, for the more contemplative way of working (while not wanting to go all the way to a view camera all the time). It also lacks versatility - it can't be used with a view camera (at least not easily), nor can the back and body be upgraded separately - not so much of an issue with the (presumably) cheaper Nikon, but the Leica is very expensive as well as non-upgradeable...

                                          -Dan
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erick.boileau
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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2008, 09:35:29 AM »
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I am using for landscape Hasselblad H1 + P45  the only back (with P+ series)  for long exposure
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Lust4Life
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2008, 09:51:28 AM »
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Dan,

I had both the 503cw with CFi lenses and P45 and the H1 with P45+
Shooting the same scene, the CFi lenses on the 503cw produced a noticeably sharper image than the H series did.

Thus I've personally ruled out the H series for my landscape work, but know many photographers that are using it with fine results.

Jack


Quote from: Dan Wells
I've thought a bit about both the view camera option and the Leica (actually more about the rumored Nikon MX, which seems to be the same type of camera), and decided that neither one makes a good first venture into MF digital. The view camera is not versatile enough without also having another camera (although I will certainly add one sooner or later to whatever setup I choose - I just want both the quicker-handling SLR option and the view camera). That is one of the major points in favor of the Hasselblad for me - that tilt-shift adapter is compact, light and provides a view camera without needing another set of lenses. The Leica is TOO much like a DSLR - I'm moving to medium format, at least in part, for the more contemplative way of working (while not wanting to go all the way to a view camera all the time). It also lacks versatility - it can't be used with a view camera (at least not easily), nor can the back and body be upgraded separately - not so much of an issue with the (presumably) cheaper Nikon, but the Leica is very expensive as well as non-upgradeable...

                                          -Dan
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Dan Wells
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2008, 10:14:00 AM »
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I'm a bit confused about the Cambo WDS or Wide DS that several folks like... It looks like it has shift, rise and fall, but no tilt or bellows extension (does it use helicoid focus like a smaller-format camera?). When I've used view cameras, I've found tilt and bellows focusing to be the compelling features - the tilt allows selective depth of field (either wide or narrow), and the bellows focus permits a very wide range of focal distances, from infinity to macro. I've rarely used shift, and I certainly have used rise, but less frequently than tilt or bellows extension. Do other folks like different movements, is it the lens quality of the Cambo that's compelling (and if so, are the Schneiders for Cambo better lenses than the Schneiders for the Hy6?), or am I missing some movements on the Cambo? As a northeastern landscape photographer, I find myself focused on infinity somewhat less frequently than, say, many Western landscape photographers, and much of what I call landscape is in fact, smaller pieces of the landscape (sometimes extending into the macro range). There are some vistas in Vermont, but not as many as there are in Colorado or Yosemite - the same trees that provide beautiful intimate landscapes tend to spoil grand vistas...

                                                                                  -Dan


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bradleygibson
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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2008, 12:07:10 PM »
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Dan,

Looks like you're getting lots of feedback--that's great.

I agree with the folks who are saying that the Schneider/Rodenstock glass on a technical camera will outperform any MFDSLR.

Like yourself, I started my venture into digital medium format with the intent to maximize image quality.  I felt that the Arca-Swiss 6x9 F Metric w/Orbix would be the platform of choice, but quickly realized it wouldn't have the versatility of an SLR.

My first compromise, I decided to go with the SLR first and eventually pick up a solution which enabled movements/view camera glass later.

Interesting what you say about your left hand.  Most of the cameras (H-series, Hy6/AFi, Mamiya) will allow you to grip with your right, and adjust exposure with your right as well.  If we assume manually focusing with your left hand is off the table, you'll need a camera with a mature AF lens lineup.  One exception to this is the Hasselblad V (500-series) camera.  It's designed to be supported by the left hand and all focusing and exposure operations done on the lens with the right hand.

The good news about Hasselblad V is that every back is available for it, so you'll have a smorgasbord of choices.  Let me give you a quick run-down of my experiences and some of the key issues I ran into with each of these systems (I've owned all of these): (Others experiences may vary)

Hasselblad V:
   + Perhaps the highest resolving optics outside of large format (I say perhaps, because I did not get to try my Rollei Schneider glass on a Phase back--my current back is slightly lower resolution (-6%) so I can't make an apples-to-apples comparison)
   + Purely mechanical - could fix jams, etc, in the field, less susceptible to rain, no batteries required
   + Superb build quality, handling, and use (once you get used to it).
   + Any back will work on Hassy V.
   - External sync cable required - fragile and finicky; made changing lenses that much less fun.  Incomplete exposure metadata in image files.
   - Cannot change image orientation without removing back; spitting rain, dust, and changes even on bright sunny days gave no end of sensor dust
   
   And my biggest issue (probably the biggest single reason I'm not still on this platform):
   - Hasselblad 500-series aperture blades give very disturbing pentagonal bokeh; It really was a dealbreaker for me.  I still have samples if you would like to see some of the results.  Note the Hasselblad 200-series camera's FE lense lineup has round apertures, but very limited digital back compatibility.

Hasselblad H:
    + More modern or "conventional" SLR design (eliminated sync cables, provides full exposure metadata in files, etc.)
    + Most affordable solution?
    - Personally do not like the HC-series glass for landscape (not optimized for infinity, similar bokeh issues to Hassy Zeiss 500-series CF/CFE glass)
    - V-series glass adapter/H-camera forces left-hand use for cocking shutter and operating lens rings (lenses are designed for right handed operation)
    - Among the heaviest solutions

Mamiya/Phase:
    + Smaller, more compact "conventional SLR design
    + Lots of "energy" in this line from Phase One
    -  Mamiya glass underwhelmed (build quality in particular, but image quality didn't stun me either)
    ? Perhaps worth another look once Leica leaf shutter lenses become available?

Sinar Hy6/Leaf AFi:
    + Best-in class ergonomics (tilting handle, rubberized body, once you try Sinar's rotating adapter you won't ever go back to removing the back to rotate--Leaf has an upcoming rotation solution as well.)
    + Great lens lineup, Schneider perhaps just a hair behind Hassy's Zeiss for resolving power, but overall far ahead in terms of overalll rendering quality.  Plus, both Zeiss and Schneider lenses are available, so you  can pick from the best of both worlds.
    + Some high speed glass (50/2.8, 80/2, 110/2, 180/2.Cool
    + Good AF lineup

    -  I found both the Leaf and Sinar backs to be noisier than the Phase at low ISO (the situation was reversed at high ISO, but I am a low-ISO shooter)
    -  Weight - the camera is feather-light, but the glass weighs a lot.

I currently have the Hy6 and am very happy with it.  If you're looking at economical solutions, be sure to take a look at the recently announced Hy6 65R.


One other platform to consider is the Contax.  I've never owned this one, but was within a hair's breadth of doing it as I was leaving the H2.  It has Zeiss AF glass across the board and can be had very inexpensively.  Apertures are well-rounded so no bokeh issues to worry about.  It's not well-supported any more, and some of the back manufacturers have dropped Contax mounts on their latest digital back offerings, so beware.

None of these guys are weather-sealed.  The Phase and the Sinar don't have vents or fans, but the Leaf does.  This initially pushed me away from the Leaf, but I may end up with a vented back unless Sinar's version of the AFi-II 10 is passively cooled.  I don't like the lack of environmental protection, but it is something I can manage until someone provides a better option.

Both my Phase/Hasselblad and my Sinar Hy6 have been used in Pacific Northwest rainforest rain, and in alpine (mountaineering) cold.  I protect the equipment appropriately and have never had any issues.

When evaluating your system, don't underestimate the savings that can be had by looking at the used market for lenses.  This could make a huge difference in terms of the system you can afford.

Not so easy a decision, eh?

Remember to have fun with this,
-Brad
« Last Edit: October 04, 2008, 12:15:09 PM by bradleygibson » Logged

Dan Wells
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2008, 12:31:26 PM »
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My reason for eliminating the V-system was the fiddly sync cables and the lack of good in body metering. I sometimes carry a separate spotmeter, but don't like to be forced into that choice if I'm trying to cut down on pieces. The same applies to all view cameras except the HTS adapter (which preserves the H series metering). Won't someone hurry up and build a camera with the H3D's features and tilt/shift adapter, the Sinar's ergonomics and glass, Phase One's software and perhaps back quality and Mamiya's lens pricing? Hopefully this discussion will prove useful to others trying to make the same choice I am!

                                                 -Dan
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Christopher
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2008, 01:10:16 PM »
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Quote from: Dan Wells
My reason for eliminating the V-system was the fiddly sync cables and the lack of good in body metering. I sometimes carry a separate spotmeter, but don't like to be forced into that choice if I'm trying to cut down on pieces. The same applies to all view cameras except the HTS adapter (which preserves the H series metering). Won't someone hurry up and build a camera with the H3D's features and tilt/shift adapter, the Sinar's ergonomics and glass, Phase One's software and perhaps back quality and Mamiya's lens pricing? Hopefully this discussion will prove useful to others trying to make the same choice I am!

                                                 -Dan


I had the same choices some time ago and decided for the P45+ and the Mamiya combo.

Some reasons:

- I don't need leaf shutter lenses, they are just heavy and not useful. (for me)
- I didn't really need a WL-Finder, because I don't like it. I had done it with film on a V camera for some time and never really enjoyed it.
- The Mamiya is a nice camera and the edge at the end were the new lens design, which I think are as good or in some aspects even better when current lenses by all other companies. The Mamiya 150 D and the Phase One 80 2.8 are fantastic. I think these lenses show that Mamiya and Phase are on the right track for delivering very high quality lenses.
- the whole camera system really feels in a way like a normal SLR system, which I really like.
- Phase One shows with C1 a very nice raw converter.

- what I don't like about the system is the bad screen on the back of the LCD.
- In addition the battery system isn't the best.

Overall I'm very happy with my choice. I shot some stuff recently and used the 150 a lot, and this lens is so ******** amazing.

I hope it hels a bit.
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hcubell
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2008, 01:45:20 PM »
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Dan, where in Vermont are you? I just returned from 6 hours of shooting in Danby Four Corners and Mt. Tabor with a Hasselblad H3DII-39. I photograph regularly in Southern Vermont, so send me a PM if you are interested in seeing the Hasselblad or at least some raw files from your home turf.
Good luck.
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