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Author Topic: Epson 7900  (Read 7612 times)
uaiomex
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« on: October 07, 2008, 09:13:23 PM »
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A good friend of mine that actually sells Epson equipment and comsumables, just came out a meeting with some Epson Mexico officials. They told him the 7900 will be for sale in this country on december. The price revealed to him for the Spectro model is about 70% more than a 7880. I don't quote the price because it varies from country to country.

Eduardo
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Schewe
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2008, 09:46:45 PM »
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The 7900/9900 printers will be more expensive than the 7880/9880–the 900 series printers are being ADDED, they are not replacing the previous printers. So, the 880 series will be the lower cost alternative.

Also, just to be clear, the spectro is being promoted to the PROOFING industry, Epson will not be recommending the spectro for general photographic use. Photographers printing fine art photographs will not get much for the $ when compared to the already good range of stand-alone spectros.

US prices will be announced around Graph Expo (here in Chicago) that runs from Oct 26-29 if not a bit sooner.
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awsstudios
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2008, 06:55:14 PM »
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There is some info that came out today on 7900/9900.
here is a press release
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/10/prweb1475984.htm

There are links in the article to a store where they have info on the two.
7900 is $3995  w/spectro add $1495
9900 is $5995 w/spectro add $2495
the ink cartridges also come in 150ml, 300ml, and 700ml at list price is $89.95, $159.95, and $279.95 respectively.
more info on the site.
shipment of 7900  30-45 days from now
with 9900 shipping later

[blockquote]"High Performance Print Engine Speeds
Utilizing our latest print head technology, the Epson Stylus Pro 9900 printers are among the fastest
wide-format printers in the industry.

 Print Mode                                           16” x 20”                      20” x 30”                      40” x 60”

 Fine – 720 dpi HS                                  2:53                              5:03                             15:26

 SuperFine – 1440 dpi HS                       3:47                              6:39                             24:20

 SuperPhoto – 2880 dpi HS                    7:14                              12:52                            40:05

 HS = High-speed Print Mode (Bi-directional Print Mode) | Print speeds are shown in min:sec"[/blockquote]
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uaiomex
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« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2008, 11:05:09 AM »
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Well, this post fortifies what my friend wast told by Epson people.
What ever happenned to the "Epson gives away the printers at cost, for ink sales"
These printers are expensive.

Eduardo


Quote from: awsstudios
There is some info that came out today on 7900/9900.
here is a press release
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/10/prweb1475984.htm

There are links in the article to a store where they have info on the two.
7900 is $3995  w/spectro add $1495
9900 is $5995 w/spectro add $2495
the ink cartridges also come in 150ml, 300ml, and 700ml at list price is $89.95, $159.95, and $279.95 respectively.
more info on the site.
shipment of 7900  30-45 days from now
with 9900 shipping later

[blockquote]"High Performance Print Engine Speeds
Utilizing our latest print head technology, the Epson Stylus Pro 9900 printers are among the fastest
wide-format printers in the industry.

 Print Mode                                           16” x 20”                      20” x 30”                      40” x 60”

 Fine – 720 dpi HS                                  2:53                              5:03                             15:26

 SuperFine – 1440 dpi HS                       3:47                              6:39                             24:20

 SuperPhoto – 2880 dpi HS                    7:14                              12:52                            40:05

 HS = High-speed Print Mode (Bi-directional Print Mode) | Print speeds are shown in min:sec"[/blockquote]
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mmurph
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« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2008, 01:55:20 PM »
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Are the 7880/9880 list prices going to be reduced?

After all of the blow-out sales of the last year - first on the 7800/9800 laqst fall, then on 7800/9800 refurbs, then on the 7880/9880 themselves through summer - they are going to have a **hard** time selling at anywhere near list!  They have really undercut their market.

Personally I was rather pissed to have purchased a 7880 at full price in December, only to have the steep discounts starting in March. I needed to sell the 7880 and they severly undercut the market and accelerated the depreciation on the 7880.

That complaint isn't about the typical "buy now or wait" technical question. It is more about the churn in the market that Epson created with poor product planning and desperate catch-up measures in the market.

Best,
Michael
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Wayne Fox
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2008, 05:03:31 PM »
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The various sizes of ink cartridges is a nice option and will help those wanting the highest output quality printer but don't have particularly high volume printing.  I wish the 11880 had at least one smaller option.
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BruceHouston
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2008, 07:49:30 PM »
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So...about $1500 difference between 7880 and 7900, considering the current 7880 discount.
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titusbear
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2008, 09:29:21 PM »
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$1,500 - about the fees /costs for printing 24  17"X22" prints (using NY /Calif  pro-printing house prices).  Not all that much considering the beefier construction / better head and electronics / faster speed - of a machine that probably has a thousands of prints lifetime (if you don't get a lemon).

It's all dependent on what you expect from the machine re: utility /output /ease & cost of use.... along with the operating envelope of output possibilities and viewer expectations.



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Doombrain
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2008, 04:19:15 AM »
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I don't think you'll see the 150ml carts.
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neil snape
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« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2008, 04:29:01 AM »
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Quote from: Doombrain
I don't think you'll see the 150ml carts.


What cartridges will it ship with?
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Doombrain
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2008, 06:04:48 AM »
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I would of thought the same as any other epson large format, the 110ml's.
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Schewe
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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2008, 10:45:48 AM »
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Quote from: neil snape
What cartridges will it ship with?


The 79/9900 ship with 110ML carts (they are starter carts)...the actual ink carts for purchase will be either 350 or 700ML.
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neil snape
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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 11:04:05 AM »
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Quote from: Schewe
The 79/9900 ship with 110ML carts (they are starter carts)...the actual ink carts for purchase will be either 350 or 700ML.
That is what I thought I read.

I didn't see  what are the 150 ml carts for, nor did I see them around at Photokina.

How much ink does the 7900 take on initialization, how soon should one have new cartridges on hand?
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Doombrain
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« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2008, 11:09:33 AM »
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around 35 - 40%
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KevinA
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« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2008, 11:39:37 AM »
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Any idea when the 7900 will be available in the UK? As my printer has just curled up it's toes.

Kevin.
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Kevin.
alan a
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« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2008, 08:41:55 PM »
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UPDATE ON POST -- I have deleted my long list of questions and moved them to a new thread that specifically compares the two printers.  Neil Snape suggested that I should have started a new topic.  Neil is correct, so I did so.  I apologize for any confusion that this may cause.

I also took the liberty of posting the below response from Neil as well, so everything is collected in one new topic as Neil suggested.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2008, 07:42:16 AM by alan a » Logged
neil snape
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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2008, 02:41:30 AM »
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Quote from: uaiomex
Well, this post fortifies what my friend wast told by Epson people.
What ever happenned to the "Epson gives away the printers at cost, for ink sales"
These printers are expensive.

Eduardo
These prices are totally inline with other printers at release time. You cannot compare to printers that have been on the market for some time, nor small jumps in upgrades like the Canon ink change between x000 and x100 or HP between 3100 and 3200.
For how much machine you get with the 7+9900 it is in fact quite a bit less than the predecessors.
For 1000$ there is decidedly a better path for all but IT buyers tight budget requirements.
For the amount of R&D that went into a printer line , in particular these printers , you are getting the printer for next to nothing, but will as always become part of the consumables buyers group.
For a solid reliable production tool, these prices should be easily recovered faster than most IT purchases, then everything else is a nice profit on top of the quality output ensuring customer loyalty above all.
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neil snape
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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2008, 03:29:26 AM »
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Quote from: alan a
Please forgive me for double posting.  But those who are interested in the Z3200 read that thread, those interested in the 7900 read this thread.  

It would have been good to have started a new topic.


I am interested in both, and in a comparison on the following, since they both sell at about the same price:

Which one has a better color gamut -- the new HP 3200 or the new HP 7900?

Different gamuts , different extensions, both good, both more than enough for most printing. What is and has been obvious is the ability of Epson to print well on any media you throw at it. HP does well on certain papers with GE that Epson struggle with. Nothing to do with gamut but to do with media types. Gamut cannot be disassociated with media types, hence the GE although almost neutral is an ink advantage on some media. Epson have the edge on other media especially matte papers in saturated three quarter tone on downward. This is a result not only being ink but also that of software, color maps, hardware tech.

Which one has a better color gamut based on tech specs and looking at tech tests, and which one appears better based on real world printing? I've seen posts that argue that one manufacturer is better in reds, or in greens or in blues. What about these two printers?


Again which images, what is the reference, what is the viewing goal. Better is subjective. Accurate is objective but only an indication of the visual appearance that again becomes subjective.  True the HP has a very natural realistic green output in all the greens you would see in landscapes, leaves etc. I didn't see anything to say the x900 would not produce images in that range that would not equal or surpass that of the 78800 etc, but the increase in greens with Epson x900 is in areas that were not really a problem in for the K3, and VM inkset before. Where Epson say the new printers are for prepress, there is a misnomer as they can print everything as before just that much better, but the new big change is the additional purity in flat colours large areas of less modulation that take over in saturated areas, and not so saturated areas alike.
So better needs to be referenced to the image type. If so the Epson has everything it needs to produce great imagery, and vector art, and everything in between. HP can do well on photo papers, but will not do as well on less than ideal coated surfaces including very diffuse matte paper, some third party media, but otherwise can do just as well in particular on optimised OEM media. Where Epson will and still do have a big advantage is in the repro of detail with super fine screening, and the possibility of 16 bit ( I don't know what the actual screen depth is ) with high bit workflow for highly detailed and accurate repro.


Both the same on black and white?

Hmmm. HP have an interesting trick> when the rgb numbers are equal the printer simply runs pure and total GCR , in other words, you have only blacks going into greyscales or the areas of grey. The HP greys are a tad blue, but very neutral throughout.
Epson to get that type of black only printing you need to print as ABW. Epson have much much less gloss differential and almost no bronzing so the output is neutral at more angles than HP which without Gloss Enhancer is well, not very good. The max density on Epson is now higher than HP, but both are very black. Both have very good Dmax and D range on matte papers. Detail is again finer on the Epson depending on the driver settings of course. When you print on Epson with the settings for finest detail, the drop size allows rendering of fine contrast areas possible with the smallest droplet size.
To recap, the Epson on photo media will be an almost ideal B&W without the use of a fragile Gloss Enhancer. On the other hand, HP can batch print B&W side by side full colour with GE which in most cases has reduced gloss diff, reduced bronzing. both of which are almost eliminated on optimised media.  


Which one successfully handles some of the media that have been prone to problems with roller or star wheel marks on the Z3100 and, I believe, to some degree with Epson?


HP does not use aspirated media feed. This is surely needed on some media. The star wheel marks are noticeable only on some media, and under some conditions, other than if you have defective roller assembly/carriage planety.

What about the mechanical operation? Epson has used a vacuum. HP does not. Is that still the case? Do you think that this mechanical difference results in any difference in how the two handle media?

See above.




Some of us would like to know about the new spectro on the Epson. I recognize that Schewe says it is not recommended for simple profiling of papers at the price, but it would still be useful to know how the two units in the two printers compare.  How easy to take on and off in the case of Epson? How does Epson compare to the APS software used by HP? What is the number of color calibration squares used by both -- how large is the largest target? Which is better for how large the color target is? Which calibration software and hardware works better?

At this time the Epson spectro doesn't look interesting for photographic repro. Will they offer an SDK for third party dev?
In any case it's off to a false start which is unusual for Epson. Are there some impending patent problems? Likely.
You should assume that they will not be leaving the spectro as a prepress RIP accessory for ever.
The HP spectro/APS set up is really really nice. It does have its long term questions though like calibration, lens cleanliness, alignment. The spectro is on all Z models, APS costs just a little more than the i1D2 that is included. You can like or dislike the profiles created by LOGO libraries, equivalent to Profile Maker.



HP includes their spectro in the print head. Does it ever suffer from ink spraying on the spectro? It would logically seem that should happen. Does it? Is the Epson design, that is removable, superior, or just more expensive?

Yes see above.



What about the drivers? HP apparently includes generic paper types. Epson does not -- correct?  Or is that a non-difference, as you can tell that Epson luster works with that as well as generic pearl, etc?


It is not a problem on Epson drivers with any printers I know. Why should it be with the 7900?

What about paper thickness in the driver? Adjustable in both printers?

HP drivers are less user adjustable as they are included in the media presets. Don't forget the Z accepts a max thickness of 0.8mm otherwise you risk roller marks of all sorts. Epson need and do employ platen gap to it's advantage with all the LFPs.

What about less, standard or more ink settings? Do they both include that? Or is it a non-issue?

On HP you can have some funky results when you touch any of these. Since I've always relied on custom profiles I think there would be less problems in linearised graduations printing smoothly without adjusting these sliders. Yet maybe that's just me.
Many questions that all interested in a LFP should have. I want to add what I know so far. Real world tests will come after. I'll just cut and add in the above quote....in bold
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alan a
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2008, 01:00:33 PM »
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Quote from: neil snape
Many questions that all interested in a LFP should have. I want to add what I know so far. Real world tests will come after. I'll just cut and add in the above quote....in bold
Neil, thanks very much.  I agreed with your criticism and comment that I should have started a new topic -- so I did that.  I pasted in your above comments verbatim in that new topic so it will all be in one place.

Please see that new topic, and at the end of that I posted several additional questions based on your comments here.

Any response you provide would be greatly appreciated!
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narikin
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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2008, 01:50:22 PM »
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$6000 for a 9900, plus $150 delivery, plus $1300 if you want the roll take up spool, so its close to $7500 all in.

getting close to  11880 territory, after rebates, for a full 64", though thats only got 8 inks...

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