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Author Topic: New Macbook Pros and Macbooks  (Read 17364 times)
Fritzer
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« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2008, 03:11:10 PM »
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Quote from: Deep
Incidentally, if I remember right, the separate ports on the older MacBook Pro are not that separate and a test I saw measured performance reductions when both ports were used together!

Correct, the 'old' MBP is using one bus for both FW ports, I never got to run a harddrive and the A75 simultanously - which is more about power consumption, actually.
Using several ports for heavy data transfers is not a good idea in any configuration, though. It's your CPU which is doing the heavy lifting.

Quote from: Fred C
It's in french by everybody can understand graphics.

It seems that the USB2.0 of the new MBP is faster than the faster PC laptop on the market wich is a very good news for all of us which are shooting tethered.

The bad news is that the FW800 is not much faster that expected and quite similar in speed that USB2.0 the way it has been implemented.

That's old news, ever since USB 2.0 was introduced it was claimed it could beat Firewire.
It's working for consumer needs, but not for professional users when you need to move large amounts of data or work on pro video or audio.
If one does any of that, even FW 400 still runs circles around USB 2.0 .

Both 'Snow Leopard' and Adobe CS4 are supposed to take advantage of GPU power, so I'm wondering why Apple is leaving Firewire behind while there are still tons of FW harddrives and professional devices around which depend on it , and there is no real substitute available.

For pro users, the near-future advantages of the advanced graphics should be convincing enough to go MB'Pro', and we could still get a MacBook with Firewire to use it when the speed isn't an issue.

For 12+ years , Apple was my only choice, but right now I'm wondering if there is a future for professional users on a Mac - are they going all iPod/phone/etc. now ?
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phila
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« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2008, 04:46:00 AM »
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"As many of you might have experienced it, the transfer speed of the USB2.0 port on Mac has always been slower than on PC, even when using BootCamp. The French website Les Numériques performed a test to compare the FireWire and the USB2.0 port of the new MacBook Pro. With a dual interface external HD, the USB2.0 and the FireWire provided the same transfer speed, with 20 MB/s and more than 30 MB/s respectively in reading and writing model, placing the new MBP in front of the tested PC hardware.

This information is important as it resembles the procedure used to clone HDs, as one needs both high transfer speed and low access time. If it might prove that the USB2.0 is now working properly in our Mac, it might not necessarily prove to Mac users that the lack of FireWire in the new MacBook is now justified."

http://www.hardmac.com/news/2008-10-24/

Actually you'd hope FW800 would more like 100% faster than USB2, but still...

I've only had a brief play with the new MBP in the Sydney Apple Store, and was expecting the worst, glossy screen wise, but was pleasantly surprised with how much reflections weren't a big hassle. I'd have no qualms buying one.
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klane
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« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2008, 12:09:22 PM »
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Quote from: phila
"As many of you might have experienced it, the transfer speed of the USB2.0 port on Mac has always been slower than on PC, even when using BootCamp. The French website Les Numériques performed a test to compare the FireWire and the USB2.0 port of the new MacBook Pro. With a dual interface external HD, the USB2.0 and the FireWire provided the same transfer speed, with 20 MB/s and more than 30 MB/s respectively in reading and writing model, placing the new MBP in front of the tested PC hardware.

This information is important as it resembles the procedure used to clone HDs, as one needs both high transfer speed and low access time. If it might prove that the USB2.0 is now working properly in our Mac, it might not necessarily prove to Mac users that the lack of FireWire in the new MacBook is now justified."

http://www.hardmac.com/news/2008-10-24/

Actually you'd hope FW800 would more like 100% faster than USB2, but still...

I've only had a brief play with the new MBP in the Sydney Apple Store, and was expecting the worst, glossy screen wise, but was pleasantly surprised with how much reflections weren't a big hassle. I'd have no qualms buying one.

Seriously?? My girlfriend just go the new macbook and that glass glossy screen would be a nightmare for me!! I guess to each their own.

Regarding the whole fw vs usb 2 thing... these tests like this are almost never properly conducted as different devices can take advantage of the speed fw 800 but most cant. Typically fw 800 is not much fast than fw400 unless its properly implemented on the device, but the main advantage of either fw 400 or 800 is when transferring large amounts of data at once as the client and host can "talk" back and forth unlike usb  2.0      

Im a long time mac user, and honestly I think the deletion of the fw400 port is something that we are going to start see across the board, its premature though as so many devices still take advantage of it.  Concerning the mbp only having 1 port now as well... this would have been a little bit more understandable if the missing fw400 port was replaced with an esata II port, but it wasnt. Apple seems to be doing away with the pro  user base on their mobile machines, it's sad
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EricWHiss
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« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2008, 12:53:13 PM »
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The omission of the FW 400 port can only be seen as the march of progress.  As much as I would like things to stabilize, we that use digital media have to realize and embrace progress.   First there were serial ports, then SCSI, then firewire, then usb, usb2, fw800.   About the only thing that has been fairly stable is ethernet, and even with that there have been pretty big changes and I still remember when ethernet was coax cable.   I have always wondered why the digital backs didn't use ethernet? Cat-5 cable is lighter and locks in.  

Luckily there are the cheap FW800 to FW400 adapters or cables.

How many of you have scanners that are SCSI?  Pretty hard to find SCSI ports on the new computers.  

Anyhow change is true of your storage media - remember floppy disks? zip drives? Jaz drives?  What about IDE drives?

RE: glossy screens - I dislike them myself.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2008, 01:33:11 PM by EricWHiss » Logged

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jvora
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« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2008, 01:25:52 PM »
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Eric - agree with you - As for the evolving technology, there are options - Worst case situation, one would have to purchase new peripherals - BUT there is no such option for the Glossy Screens !!

I really am unsure how this is going to work out for me and many others who are more comfortable with Matte Screens -

I saw an online petition for the re-introduction of FW400 for the MacBooks - Wondering if there was a way to petition for the option for matte screens for ALL apple displays - Any ideas ??


Jai



Quote from: EricWHiss
The omission of the FW 400 port can only be seen as the march of progress.  As much as I would like things to stabilize we that use digital media have to realize and embrace progress.   First there was on serial ports, then SCSI, then firewire, then usb, usb2, fw800.   About the only thing that has been fairly stable is ethernet, and even with that there have been pretty big changes and I still remember when ethernet was coax cable.   I have always wondered why the digital backs didn't use ethernet? Cat-5 cable is lighter and locks in.  

Luckily there are the cheap FW800 to FW400 adapters or cables.

How many of you have scanners that are SCSI?  Pretty hard to find SCSI ports on the new computers.  

Anyhow change is true of your storage media - remember floppy disks? zip drives? Jaz drives?  What about IDE drives?

RE: glossy screens - I dislike them myself.
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samuel_js
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« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2008, 06:41:34 PM »
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I just bought an "early 2008" mbp (after selling my early 2006 mpp glossy). This is a great machine. TFT screen again. Thank god!
Really not looking forward to new macbooks. There's not much practical improvement and they look like toys... I could have considered them if there was a TFT option. Too bad Apple...
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Gandalf
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« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2008, 08:24:51 PM »
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I have to say, that I find myself in new territory here. I'm a lifetime Mac user, bought the first one in 1984 (128k ram!), but I'm in a bit of a quandary over the new machines. I was ready to discount them when user reports started coming in that back up Apple's claim of 40% faster than the last generation machines. After spending two years with a Macbook, I'm really over the glossy screen. They are ok inside, but not out. I have to say, despite the weight and cost, the Lenovo W700 is looking very tempting.
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Dustbak
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« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2008, 02:17:32 AM »
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I am a 20+ year PC user (got my first experiences with C/PM) that is also using Mac for the last 2 years, the biggest problem for me is that no PC laptop I found sofar has a FW400/800 port. I loath buying separate cards to do that.

The other thing which favors Mac for me is the fact I know less of the Mac environment. With PC I found myself more often tweaking with the OS than doing actual work, with the Mac I simply work. This is saving me a ton of time

I just hate Vista, MS should never have left XP and go Vista. Apparently the new Windows version is better. I used to alfa & beta test all versions but I simply don't have the patience anymore. Anyway, if your Windows machine is properly configured it is as fast (or faster) and stable as MacOS. It is just that currently the Mac is also one of the best Windows platforms you can have the best of 2 worlds. Up until the new Mac I was quite sure I would stick with Mac but things can change.

Ah well, I have a 'new' MBP which will last me about 2 years minimum and a lot can happen in that time.
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Gandalf
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« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2008, 05:50:17 PM »
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I now have a new Macbook and thought I should respond to some of my comments above. Overall this is a great laptop with a couple caveats. The trackpad is awful, but I think that future firmware updates may solve that. Also, the screen on the Macbook is absolutely worthless. I don't like the glossy, but it is not as bad as I thought it would be. The killer is the color -- it shifts radically from every viewing angle to the point that you can't see accurate colors from the top and bottom of the screen at the same time. Also, it is very low bit rate a struggles to accurately reproduce blues and purples. Note that this is for the Mackbook and the Macbook pro may be significantly better. I do not have calibration software that allows me to view the calibration curves to see how accurate the profile is, but it looks "off" to me.

If you can deal with the above and are looking for a traveling machine, this thing is fantastic. If you need to do any color work, pass.
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woof75
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« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2008, 12:08:07 PM »
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Quote from: Gandalf
I now have a new Macbook and thought I should respond to some of my comments above. Overall this is a great laptop with a couple caveats. The trackpad is awful, but I think that future firmware updates may solve that. Also, the screen on the Macbook is absolutely worthless. I don't like the glossy, but it is not as bad as I thought it would be. The killer is the color -- it shifts radically from every viewing angle to the point that you can't see accurate colors from the top and bottom of the screen at the same time. Also, it is very low bit rate a struggles to accurately reproduce blues and purples. Note that this is for the Mackbook and the Macbook pro may be significantly better. I do not have calibration software that allows me to view the calibration curves to see how accurate the profile is, but it looks "off" to me.

If you can deal with the above and are looking for a traveling machine, this thing is fantastic. If you need to do any color work, pass.

I have a white macbook 2.2 Ghz and it was cheap and it works very well, the screen is good, maybe not for colour critical work but I have it next to my eizo and it's not far off, the battery life is good, about 3.5 hours and most importantly, IT HAS FIREWIRE. I have no idea why a photographer would buy one of the new ones.
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« Reply #70 on: November 12, 2008, 01:17:36 PM »
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Quote from: woof75
I have no idea why a photographer would buy one of the new ones.


because my white book is now a yellow book, with the topcase broken for the third time just above the white LED, the harddrive been replaced, the superdrive being replaced, the screen is flickering sometimes, and i am such an idiot not buying the protection plan. I started to get into problems in its 14th month and i have now put in about the same money i spent when new. the white case is just plastic crap, and although i ALWAYS kept in in a case it is scratched all over.
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woof75
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« Reply #71 on: November 12, 2008, 04:16:57 PM »
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Quote from: geesbert
because my white book is now a yellow book, with the topcase broken for the third time just above the white LED, the harddrive been replaced, the superdrive being replaced, the screen is flickering sometimes, and i am such an idiot not buying the protection plan. I started to get into problems in its 14th month and i have now put in about the same money i spent when new. the white case is just plastic crap, and although i ALWAYS kept in in a case it is scratched all over.

Wow that some carzy a#@ SH#@. Is it the recent white one or the old model? I've had mine for about a year now and it hasn't missed a beat.
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Gandalf
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« Reply #72 on: November 12, 2008, 04:19:00 PM »
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After using it outside, don't bother, the glass screen is worthless. I can't imagine the MBP's would be any different. I didn't love the glossy screen on the previous gen macs, but they were passable. For outside use, IMO this one is not.

Woof75 - This one was not really purchased as a photo machine, but it gave me an excuse to evaluate it as such for a short time to see if it would fill that role. This one replaced a white Macbook which was a good machine, but the plastic just was not durable enough. I would say that with the exception of being brighter and more evenly illuminated than the screen on your machine, the screen on the new Macbooks is simply inferior in every way. I have not used the new MBP's in any meaningful way, and will not be purchasing one for field photo use. I would say that if you are looking for a laptop for outside photo use, your options are a Lenovo W700, last gen MBP or wait and hope Apple comes out with something else or a third-party mfg comes out with a solution.

Screen aside, this is an exceptional machine for non-graphic uses.
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geesbert
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« Reply #73 on: November 12, 2008, 04:20:51 PM »
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recent intel white mcbook. was working like a charm for 13 months, then it started to disintegrate. do yourself a favour, get the protection plan!
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pixjohn
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« Reply #74 on: November 12, 2008, 04:34:59 PM »
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The protection is good and bad. My MBP has a dent on the corner and now apple denies everything that might go wrong because of it.  They did replace a bad battery but they will not fix a problem with my space bar sticking. They want $1200 to fix the case then they will fix the space bar. I just got a white Macbook for my wife and might steal it back to keep as a backup to my MBP on location.

Quote from: geesbert
recent intel white mcbook. was working like a charm for 13 months, then it started to disintegrate. do yourself a favour, get the protection plan!
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jjj
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« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2008, 05:06:00 PM »
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Quote from: geesbert
because my white book is now a yellow book, with the topcase broken for the third time just above the white LED, the harddrive been replaced, the superdrive being replaced, the screen is flickering sometimes, and i am such an idiot not buying the protection plan. I started to get into problems in its 14th month and i have now put in about the same money i spent when new. the white case is just plastic crap, and although i ALWAYS kept in in a case it is scratched all over.
Quote from: pixjohn
The protection is good and bad. My MBP has a dent on the corner and now apple denies everything that might go wrong because of it.  They did replace a bad battery but they will not fix a problem with my space bar sticking. They want $1200 to fix the case then they will fix the space bar. I just got a white Macbook for my wife and might steal it back to keep as a backup to my MBP on location.
Buy a Mac - they just work.




[Except when they don't and then they're also verrry expensive to fix]
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GregW
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« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2008, 05:24:30 PM »
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Quote from: Gandalf
The killer is the color -- it shifts radically from every viewing angle to the point that you can't see accurate colors from the top and bottom of the screen at the same time. Also, it is very low bit rate a struggles to accurately reproduce blues and purples.

Unfortunately this is exactly what I saw when I tested one last week at my local store. I have a first gen MBA and was optomistic the MB would use the same panel; which in my experience has been very good indeed. Placing them side by side the color shift on the MB was simply unacceptable. In addition to your comments about blues and purples I found the top left of the screen had a green tint.

We don't have an Apple store, so the reseller was happy to try two other machines. We calibrated all 3 plus my MBA with an i1 ver2 prior to viewing a number of samples.

I can only assume that the panel has been downgraded in the MB or there is a technical issue.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2008, 05:25:57 PM by GregW » Logged
woof75
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« Reply #77 on: November 13, 2008, 07:10:24 AM »
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Quote from: GregW
Unfortunately this is exactly what I saw when I tested one last week at my local store. I have a first gen MBA and was optomistic the MB would use the same panel; which in my experience has been very good indeed. Placing them side by side the color shift on the MB was simply unacceptable. In addition to your comments about blues and purples I found the top left of the screen had a green tint.

We don't have an Apple store, so the reseller was happy to try two other machines. We calibrated all 3 plus my MBA with an i1 ver2 prior to viewing a number of samples.

I can only assume that the panel has been downgraded in the MB or there is a technical issue.

I think there's really good deals on refurbished MBP's (the last generation ones) as ever I like to be a bit behind the curve, it's where the good stuff is.
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Snook
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« Reply #78 on: November 14, 2008, 05:26:12 AM »
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Quote from: woof75
I think there's really good deals on refurbished MBP's (the last generation ones) as ever I like to be a bit behind the curve, it's where the good stuff is.
Mac have been slacking ever since they started with the Intel BS, which was the only road for them, But I NEVER had one problem with my macs in 15 years.. The last year I have had problem with every freaking mac I own.
Just had a MacPro Tower with 6 gigs of RAM Die after the first month the guarantee went out... They want 3800.00 to fix...
HAd a MacBook black one for the house.. also died 2 weeks after warranty.
Now I have a MAcbook Pro 17" that has it's good days and it's bad days...
Going to send it it BEFORE the warranty expires just for them to check it anyways..
Starting to Hate Apple more and more. And the new models are just becoming PC with and Apple logo....
It's a shame but cannot really blame them if they want to keep up with the game makers...
Snook
« Last Edit: November 14, 2008, 05:28:07 AM by Snook » Logged
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