Ad
Ad
Ad
Pages: « 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 »   Bottom of Page
Print
Author Topic: Price Reduction Sinar Hy6 - 54 & Sinar Hy6 - 75 Camera Systems & Backs  (Read 49212 times)
Jack Flesher
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2595



WWW
« Reply #260 on: November 07, 2008, 11:10:05 AM »
ReplyReply

A third-party, independent view offered here only as a FWIW in the hopes of calming things down...

It's taken me some time to realize this, but it appears to me that most of the "complaints" about Sinar products and service experiences originate from the US customer base, and more specifically as it relates to US representation of same.  From my own personal experience, I have to agree with Henry in that I've had very poor luck with timely communication or action from US Sinar reps on everything from accurate pricing to getting an obviously defective camera and back repaired.  (And in fact it was finally Thierry via pressure on another forum who got the Sinar ball rolling to get that camera and back repaired -- and thank you again for that Thierry!)

OTOH, it appears that most EU customers have quite the opposite experience and are quite satisfied with Sinar, pricing anomalies aside.  I'll add that I think Thierry does do a good job in his attempts to defend the Sinar name on these forums which are clearly international in nature.  Unfortunately however -- and I suspect it is just a cultural difference -- Thierry's responses and statements usually come across as overly defensive to the point of being rude to anybody (at least to the US participants) who says anything remotely negative about Sinar, and that kind of corporate representation/behavior/culture invariably irritates US consumers...

All offered only FWIW,
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 11:16:50 AM by Jack Flesher » Logged

smhoer
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


WWW
« Reply #261 on: November 07, 2008, 11:15:16 AM »
ReplyReply

Excellent point Jack.  I worked in Switzerland in the 80s and really had to adjust my sense of humor/sarcasm and realize things I said could be viewed as too aggressive.  As a lowly currency trader I was expected to tow the line quietly while in the US I was expected to be loud and aggressive in my trading approach.

Logged

Scott H.
North Carolina
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #262 on: November 07, 2008, 11:18:28 AM »
ReplyReply

I shall let you debate on my "behaviour", and the difference of cultures, and have now myself a sleep.

Nice weekend to all,
Thierry
Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
rainer_v
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1120


WWW
« Reply #263 on: November 07, 2008, 11:23:17 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: smhoer
Thierry,
You have the habit of escalating things to each perceived insult (although I have yet to read them as insults).  If you are going to participate as a rep of your company a thick skin approach is needed.  We don't want to see another GetDPI occurrence.  I appreciate your participation here and would like to see it continue.  I did not see anything insulting to hcubell's response that justified your elevated response.


few people could have been aware how thierry was flamed in getDPI behind the lines by the owner of this site. no way to communicate this, i tried it also
but my posts have been erased there without any comment, so i quit my participation there as well few days after thierry.
this is not happening here and i hardly doubt that it will ever happen, seeing how michael is leading this forum.
thierry has sent me the emails he received by the owner of getDPI and it was incredible root, unpolite and offensive.

that he get bored here sometimes by people who insult and insult in things which are not in his responsability,-
more so because 95% of this people dont work with hsinar backs, i can undersatnd very well and i admire his patience here and his way to response.
i wouldnt have 10% of it.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 11:29:00 AM by rainer_v » Logged

rainer viertlböck
architecture photographer
munich / germany

www.tangential.de
fpoole
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 51


WWW
« Reply #264 on: November 07, 2008, 11:59:41 AM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: smhoer
As someone looking to get into MFD I will put in my two cents regarding Sinar.  I contacted SinarBron USA for some pricing.  This after seeing the Hy6 at Calumet in Chicago.  I went to the SinarBron website and based on info there contacted several Sinar dealers in the US asking for pricing.  All responses were several thousand ($5,000 to $7,000) above the "OLD" sinar prices you quoted above.  When I pointed out the new pricing two dealers said it was below what they are charged by SinarBron USA.  One offered to call SinarBron.  He called me two days later and said he was told SinarBron is not implementing the new Sinar pricing.  I went to the US Customs websites and found that Cameras have no tariffs and are fully duty free.  When I contacted SinarBron I got no response after 3 emails.  You keep implying we should pressure our dealers.  If to work with your dealers we must "pressure" them than that business model is probably costing you a significant volume in sales.  I will not work with dealers that require "pressure" and distributors that do not respond to inquiries.  Gives me the impression that down the road I will be "left out to dry" when something goes wrong with the equipment.  I have chosen not to pursue any potential purchase of Sinar equipment.  I have been working with Hasselblad and Phase One dealers.  I have found them responsive and helpful.  They have also been responsive to negotiating price.  I suggest that is the model SinarBron US needs to adopt if they want to make sales.

I have had just the opposite experience with SinarBron USA.  I have used Sinar products for 20 years - 4 of those completely digital. Any brand of  MFD can be a bit of a bumpy road, and for that matter so can 35mm.  But I have to say that the people at SB have always been extremely helpful and responsive to any issues that have come up.  The product is excellent, but I have to make a living with this stuff every day and if the service and support were not top notch, I would be using another brand.
 Theirry is a gem and I am sometimes shocked at the insults and abuse he gets on this forum.  I've never met him but he's been so helpful to me via email I feel like he is just "down the street", and I can always count on him for quick information.  
I'm sorry you  had a bad experience with SB, but it is the total opposite of my dealings with them. My 2 cents.
Best,
Frank Poole
 


Logged

Guy Mancuso
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1100


WWW
« Reply #265 on: November 07, 2008, 12:58:10 PM »
ReplyReply

This is pretty funny to read
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 01:10:56 PM by Guy Mancuso » Logged

gregkingsbi
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15


WWW
« Reply #266 on: November 07, 2008, 03:06:08 PM »
ReplyReply

Dear Scott,
At the time Sinar announced their new pricing, there was definately some confusion on our part, as we sorted out how it would affect our pricing.  We initially put out some pricing that was incorrect.  We corrected our pricing during Photo Plus and notified our dealers and this list.  We are currently 15% to 20% higher than Sinar's Market Prices that they have announced.  Yes, they give a margin to their distributors but it does not compensate for the distributors around the world that use dealers such as SBI.  I am not sure if duty is imposed on an individual purchasing a camera  from out of the country, but we certainly pay duty and freight when we purchase cameras and digital backs from Sinar.  This also gets calculated into our price.  Also, I would appreciate it if you would please contact me offline with the email address you were emailing to, I would like to investigate why you did not receive a reply.  I would also be happy to answer any other questions you have personally.
Sincerely,
Greg King

Quote from: smhoer
As someone looking to get into MFD I will put in my two cents regarding Sinar.  I contacted SinarBron USA for some pricing.  This after seeing the Hy6 at Calumet in Chicago.  I went to the SinarBron website and based on info there contacted several Sinar dealers in the US asking for pricing.  All responses were several thousand ($5,000 to $7,000) above the "OLD" sinar prices you quoted above.  When I pointed out the new pricing two dealers said it was below what they are charged by SinarBron USA.  One offered to call SinarBron.  He called me two days later and said he was told SinarBron is not implementing the new Sinar pricing.  I went to the US Customs websites and found that Cameras have no tariffs and are fully duty free.  When I contacted SinarBron I got no response after 3 emails.  You keep implying we should pressure our dealers.  If to work with your dealers we must "pressure" them than that business model is probably costing you a significant volume in sales.  I will not work with dealers that require "pressure" and distributors that do not respond to inquiries.  Gives me the impression that down the road I will be "left out to dry" when something goes wrong with the equipment.  I have chosen not to pursue any potential purchase of Sinar equipment.  I have been working with Hasselblad and Phase One dealers.  I have found them responsive and helpful.  They have also been responsive to negotiating price.  I suggest that is the model SinarBron US needs to adopt if they want to make sales.
Logged

Greg King
Vice President of Sales
Bron Imaging Group
www.bronimaging.com


paulmoorestudio
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 235


WWW
« Reply #267 on: November 07, 2008, 03:52:25 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: gregkingsbi
Dear Scott,
At the time Sinar announced their new pricing, there was definately some confusion on our part, as we sorted out how it would affect our pricing.  We initially put out some pricing that was incorrect.  We corrected our pricing during Photo Plus and notified our dealers and this list.  We are currently 15% to 20% higher than Sinar's Market Prices that they have announced.  Yes, they give a margin to their distributors but it does not compensate for the distributors around the world that use dealers such as SBI.  I am not sure if duty is imposed on an individual purchasing a camera  from out of the country, but we certainly pay duty and freight when we purchase cameras and digital backs from Sinar.  This also gets calculated into our price.  Also, I would appreciate it if you would please contact me offline with the email address you were emailing to, I would like to investigate why you did not receive a reply.  I would also be happy to answer any other questions you have personally.
Sincerely,
Greg King

hello greg,
Would you be able to clear up my confusion regarding SBI being listed as a subsidiary of Sinar and also as a distributor as described on their website.
Also I'd like the name and contact info of your sales rep in ny.. thank paul
Logged

Jack Flesher
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2595



WWW
« Reply #268 on: November 07, 2008, 04:03:16 PM »
ReplyReply

Just got this email from a good friend of mine who happens to also be a Sinar Hy6 shooter.  Please note I am sharing this purely in the spirit of fun and good humor and it is not meant to be taken seriously:

>>Lots of fuss with Sinar pricing over on LL and it really is very simple if you have the formula.  Pricing on Monday is 1.0135% of pricing on Wednesday which is 2.0598% less than pricing on Tuesday.  Thursday and Friday are special pricing days so you can't apply those rules unless you live in a non-EU country or an EU country that is thinking of withdrawing.  None of this applies to Alaska since you can see Russia from there and need to use their pricing.  What could be simpler...<<

Then when I asked him if I could post the above he replied thusly,

>>Yeah, right... they have my Hy6 in for repair right now and I'll never see it again  Then again, I have their new Hy6 as a swap so maybe not a bad idea.  Thierry must practice swimming in quicksand as that's what he seems to be doing with these pricing posts.<<

Then he added this final comment, not funny, but I think maybe explains one of the issues surrounding US support:

>>BTW, my local SinarBron guys are NOT happy with these posts as they can't match the pricing and remain profitable.  I think their business model is flawed... not to say you can't work it to your advantage but it takes a bunch of time and effort to get there.<<

And in the spirit of fairness, he also added this in a subsequent email, and seems good info FWIW:

>>BTW,  Sinar has now changed their warranty policy on recently sold cameras/backs.  If there's something wrong and it needs repair they replace it with a new unit.  Nice... but it doesn't apply to my older purchase.<<

Cheers,
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 04:06:34 PM by Jack Flesher » Logged

gregkingsbi
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15


WWW
« Reply #269 on: November 07, 2008, 04:04:45 PM »
ReplyReply

Dear Paul,

The difference is that we are partial owned by Sinar.  Our other shareholders are Broncolor & Foba.  We are the US distributor for all three brands.  Our New York rep is:
Jim Reed 917-402-7550.

Thanks,

Greg

Quote from: paulmoorestudio
hello greg,
Would you be able to clear up my confusion regarding SBI being listed as a subsidiary of Sinar and also as a distributor as described on their website.
Also I'd like the name and contact info of your sales rep in ny.. thank paul
Logged

Greg King
Vice President of Sales
Bron Imaging Group
www.bronimaging.com


smhoer
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


WWW
« Reply #270 on: November 07, 2008, 04:27:00 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: gregkingsbi
Dear Scott,
At the time Sinar announced their new pricing, there was definately some confusion on our part, as we sorted out how it would affect our pricing.  We initially put out some pricing that was incorrect.  We corrected our pricing during Photo Plus and notified our dealers and this list.  We are currently 15% to 20% higher than Sinar's Market Prices that they have announced.  Yes, they give a margin to their distributors but it does not compensate for the distributors around the world that use dealers such as SBI.  I am not sure if duty is imposed on an individual purchasing a camera  from out of the country, but we certainly pay duty and freight when we purchase cameras and digital backs from Sinar.  This also gets calculated into our price.  Also, I would appreciate it if you would please contact me offline with the email address you were emailing to, I would like to investigate why you did not receive a reply.  I would also be happy to answer any other questions you have personally.
Sincerely,
Greg King

Greg,
From your old website version (it looks like it was updated sometime this week with new info/graphics or it may be my switch last night to using Firefox) I emailed 3x to info@sinarbron.com asking for pricing and recommendations on a rep to deal with over a 3 month period.  I ended up emailing PPR about the new pricing and they were not aware of it.

Regarding duty and freight.  According to the Customs website there is no duty on camera equipment except scientific instrumentation.  I get items shipped from Robt White and pay no duty (only a nasty state tax bill later on).  There may be duty on wholesale shipments but does duty and freight total over a few thousand $/camera?  I manage a technology line of business and have several product managers who report to me so I am very familiar with customs, freight, gross margins and the margins required to finance and support services of our distributor/partners and our own help desk.  Price not withstanding I got no response over a month of trying to contact SinarBron and ruled them out based on responsiveness and their distributor (PPR) not having been notified of the new pricing.  If my team did not respond to a potential customer's inquiry or failed to keep our field sales and distributors up to date I would lose my job very quickly or at least have my board micromanaging me for a time.  My involvement with distributors likely hastened my giving up on further consideration of Sinar based on how I run my own LOB.

This is not meant as criticism just my opinion and experience.  If my experience was an anomoly than best wishes.  If not it would be wise to do a SWAT of the whole customers service process.  I do want that being well aware of what it takes to support a distributorship we do monitor what our distributors charges and if more than our recommended pricing structure we review their cost structure with them and if it is out of line with our other distributors we ask them to correct.  This is my last comment on the issue.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 04:41:38 PM by smhoer » Logged

Scott H.
North Carolina
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #271 on: November 07, 2008, 05:26:14 PM »
ReplyReply

Dear Jack,

This is very funny, effectively, and how good from you that you have got the "ok" to post this from this person: I believe that he has certainly as well given you the permission to post his name, right? Usually such claims are followed by a name and signature, to get any credit.

Could you share the name of this person that it can be investigated and prove what you are writing here?

I doubt you will do this, you have much too much interests in play.

Jack, I will be a gentleman, and not post the PMs with all threats and insults I have got sent from your partner Guy on GetDPI a couple of weeks ago, after which I left, together with some other 10 members. But I have them all saved and backuped. That you are now angry at me that I have left your place, together with your partner, I can understand it.

And I should send you privately the more than 40 replies and reactions I have got to Guy's threats on and insults to my persons: "incredibility" and "biased" were the words used the most.

I will leave this now since it has nothing to do here.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: Jack Flesher
Just got this email from a good friend of mine who happens to also be a Sinar Hy6 shooter.  Please note I am sharing this purely in the spirit of fun and good humor and it is not meant to be taken seriously:

>>Lots of fuss with Sinar pricing over on LL and it really is very simple if you have the formula.  Pricing on Monday is 1.0135% of pricing on Wednesday which is 2.0598% less than pricing on Tuesday.  Thursday and Friday are special pricing days so you can't apply those rules unless you live in a non-EU country or an EU country that is thinking of withdrawing.  None of this applies to Alaska since you can see Russia from there and need to use their pricing.  What could be simpler...<<

Then when I asked him if I could post the above he replied thusly,

>>Yeah, right... they have my Hy6 in for repair right now and I'll never see it again  Then again, I have their new Hy6 as a swap so maybe not a bad idea.  Thierry must practice swimming in quicksand as that's what he seems to be doing with these pricing posts.<<

Then he added this final comment, not funny, but I think maybe explains one of the issues surrounding US support:

>>BTW, my local SinarBron guys are NOT happy with these posts as they can't match the pricing and remain profitable.  I think their business model is flawed... not to say you can't work it to your advantage but it takes a bunch of time and effort to get there.<<

And in the spirit of fairness, he also added this in a subsequent email, and seems good info FWIW:

>>BTW,  Sinar has now changed their warranty policy on recently sold cameras/backs.  If there's something wrong and it needs repair they replace it with a new unit.  Nice... but it doesn't apply to my older purchase.<<

Cheers,
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 05:31:15 PM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Chuck Jones
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 11



WWW
« Reply #272 on: November 07, 2008, 06:22:40 PM »
ReplyReply

Quote from: thsinar
Dear Jack,

This is very funny, effectively, and how good from you that you have got the "ok" to post this from this person: I believe that he has certainly as well given you the permission to post his name, right? Usually such claims are followed by a name and signature, to get any credit.

Could you share the name of this person that it can be investigated and prove what you are writing here?

I doubt you will do this, you have much too much interests in play.

Jack, I will be a gentleman, and not post the PMs with all threats and insults I have got sent from your partner Guy on GetDPI a couple of weeks ago, after which I left, together with some other 10 members. But I have them all saved and backuped. That you are now angry at me that I have left your place, together with your partner, I can understand it.

And I should send you privately the more than 40 replies and reactions I have got to Guy's threats on and insults to my persons: "incredibility" and "biased" were the words used the most.

I will leave this now since it has nothing to do here.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry, I can attest to the fact that everything Jack posted above is true and correct.  As are the extensive problems this particular owner of Sinar product has had.  If he wants to come forward and reveal his name, that is his right and his own business, not yours, mine, or Jacks.  I can also attest to the fact that what occurred over on that other site should never have taken place, and further that your continued course of public discourse is not only unprofessional, it is down right damaging to the interests of the company you represent.   And no, I do not have any axe to grind with any of you, over this or any other issues.  The only financial interest I have in any of this is the money I have paid for the gear I've bought, just like most of the good folks on this forum.  So please, I would ask that you keep your comments to yourself in future on this topic.  I, for one, have heard quite enough on this subject.  They do not serve your reputation nor do they reflect well on your employer.  
Logged
smhoer
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71


WWW
« Reply #273 on: November 07, 2008, 06:28:43 PM »
ReplyReply

Unprofessional response.  You are not doing your Company any favors at this point

Quote from: thsinar
Dear Jack,

This is very funny, effectively, and how good from you that you have got the "ok" to post this from this person: I believe that he has certainly as well given you the permission to post his name, right? Usually such claims are followed by a name and signature, to get any credit.

Could you share the name of this person that it can be investigated and prove what you are writing here?

I doubt you will do this, you have much too much interests in play.

Jack, I will be a gentleman, and not post the PMs with all threats and insults I have got sent from your partner Guy on GetDPI a couple of weeks ago, after which I left, together with some other 10 members. But I have them all saved and backuped. That you are now angry at me that I have left your place, together with your partner, I can understand it.

And I should send you privately the more than 40 replies and reactions I have got to Guy's threats on and insults to my persons: "incredibility" and "biased" were the words used the most.

I will leave this now since it has nothing to do here.

Best regards,
Thierry
« Last Edit: November 07, 2008, 06:32:12 PM by smhoer » Logged

Scott H.
North Carolina
Chris Sanderson
Administrator
Sr. Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1830



« Reply #274 on: November 07, 2008, 07:06:52 PM »
ReplyReply

A reminder: personal attacks and slander will lead to banning from the forum.
Logged

Christopher Sanderson
The Luminous-Landscape
david o
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 310



WWW
« Reply #275 on: November 07, 2008, 07:45:07 PM »
ReplyReply

sad to see that...
Logged
vandevanterSH
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 626


« Reply #276 on: November 07, 2008, 07:57:36 PM »
ReplyReply

I  think it's time for "Good Night Gracie".

Steve
Logged
elitegroup
Guest
« Reply #277 on: November 07, 2008, 08:14:04 PM »
ReplyReply

There is a lot of self projection and attachment going on.

Contention steals ones serenity.

May I suggest simply.....letting go.  




Logged
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #278 on: November 08, 2008, 01:12:01 AM »
ReplyReply

deleted
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 08:15:54 AM by thsinar » Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
thsinar
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2066


WWW
« Reply #279 on: November 08, 2008, 02:15:12 AM »
ReplyReply

@ smhoer & Chuck,

I am aware that I may sound unprofessional to some. This is my nature. I am not here to get flowers, but to try to help and inform. I have never attacked, slandered, insulted or spoken bad about anyone or any competitor product, or so I think. And I think still remaining polite here.

You may not be fully aware of what happened lately and at an other place, but I am. I will never let myself being insulted and threatened the way it has been done. My human being behaviour takes here the lead, whatever the consequences are and whatever others may think about me. I have my integrity and I will keep it, whatever it will cost, and threats like the ones I have gotten are the very last thing which could bend it. It does not seem apparent to most that this has started simply because some have found it "funny" to bring it over to this respected place. It does seem for many out of place, but for me it isn't. Please respect this.

I find it to be disgusting and unprofessional, to remain polite. And I say it. The Sinar signature under my name will change nothing to this, like it or not. I am not married with a company, simply working for it. I am not asked by a company to be here, simply for my own fun. I am aware that my signature may have consequences for the company I am working for.

Some argue that it needs a "thick skin" to be here or on a forum, and that one should be able to take criticism. I have a thick skin and I am more than open to take criticism, but constructive one, and one leading to a discussion and exchange, not criticism made to harm.

I wish now like all to return to a normal way to do my "work", as seriously as possible. If anybody would stick to some simple rules, such things would not happen. I am not exempt of any criticism, but as said above, won't ever let myself being threatened with the risk of being called unprofessional.

Best regards,
Thierry




Logged

Thierry Hagenauer
thasia_cn@yahoo.com
Pages: « 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 »   Top of Page
Print
Jump to:  

Ad
Ad
Ad